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1010 replies

lottiejenkins · 02/03/2008 23:23

I found this article today..........I thought it was very moving,,,, what a decision that lady made... dont think i could do it though!
www.mailonsunday.co.uk/pages/you/article.html?in_article_id=522925&in_page_id=1908

OP posts:
FioFio · 12/03/2008 14:15

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Taliesintraction · 12/03/2008 14:22

Yurt thanks for that and sorry as well.

Sorry I am not some exotic Gordon Brown or someone similar in disguise.

I think maybe you are getting caught up the in the semantics there 2 shoes.

The point I was making is that in the normal run of things to abandon a baby would also mean being a touch reckless about their safety.

Let me give an example, many years ago a friend of mine was born. Tragically very soon after birth he contracted meningitis which left him with little speach, possibly blind, very severe Cerebral Palsy and a fair bit else besides.

His mother, now there was a can do person if ever I met one, struggled without any help at all. And a struggle it was too, eventually, as time went on, she arrived at the situation where she could cope no more.

It matters not really how old he was by then or she was, she got to the end of what she could do, that to me is the important bit.

All that was on offer at the time was warehousing, in the local long term mental handicap hospital and I would not grace that ward with any better name than a bloody warehouse. And no that was not the staff's fault, they did the best they could but given the workload and staffing level it was little better than "feed and water the vegetables".

Please get annoyed and offended at that phrase, I meant to convey what the place was like, it made me burning up angry at the time to see human beings treated in such a fashion.

Now, she got so distressed at seeing him there and the conditions there that she could not visit, she found it too traumatic.

So she abandoned him to his fate.

Presumably you would want to condemn her and say she was wrong.

I hope you would not.

The point I am trying to make is that things are often presented to us, especially by the media in very simplified forms of black and white.

The real world is rarely black or white, there is usually some shade of grey.

pagwatch · 12/03/2008 14:23

FioFio

"my post just seems to have confused people apart from those who knew what I was talking about"
Ah - that is my life in a line

It is just apparent to me that there are people here who I have never encountered before who have just turned up to stir things up. I find it childish and annoying. I enjoy debating issues with a reasonably consistent community. Of course it ebbs and flows and new members will join but, just like all the tossers who swamped the board to pontificate about madeleine mccann , this just looks to me like people trawling for a fight.
I don't get that. I don't have the time and I don't, frankly, have the ego to prance around to other sites looking for people to argue with.
Weird and small minded IMO. Like picking a fight with people having dinner at the next table.

FioFio · 12/03/2008 14:26

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yurt1 · 12/03/2008 14:27

Actually Talies I don't think anyone would be firing bullets at your friend. It sounds a desperately sad story. I wonder (really I mean) whether your experience with her makes you misinterpret the complaints people have about this book and JH's very public take on what it means to have a disabled child.

pagwatch · 12/03/2008 14:27

Actually I would not really understand a mother who found her child in such distressing circumstances that she would not visit. If his circumstances were especially grim I think I would want to ensure that there were moments of relief, however rare.

I would understand the need to reliniquish care but not the decision not to visit. I would feel I needed to see my son to offer the comfort I could when I could.

pagwatch · 12/03/2008 14:29

Fio
Ah. She sounds like my MIL.
Actually I think I may do that when I get older. I am planning facial hair and an aggresive and unpredictable attitude in my next decade.

Taliesintraction · 12/03/2008 14:46

Maybe it does yurt1.

And as I have already said, I would have no truck with the "animal" and other type language.

I am just hesitating to condemn thats all.

I have seen the anguish and terrible guilt. Guilt where she had nothing to be guilty about really.

The mum concerned found just sitting in the ward where her son was often drugged to keep him quiet, others were tied to stop them hitting themselves, so distressing she could not bear to think of her son being there or could she cope with him at home. So she did not go, when she was there she was not able to be herself, one of the most dynamic and cheerful people I ever met, and if her son could do one thing that was pick up on your distress.

He would not have been happy either.

The story does end happily though and her son is not on any ward today.

2shoes · 12/03/2008 15:39

i was very glad to read that last line...

so what is this other forum?

FioFio · 12/03/2008 15:40

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rachel(mumsnet) · 12/03/2008 19:02

Sorry we?ve been slow off the mark on this thread ? it?s been a hard one to keep up/ read through. Just to remind people that whilst we encourage discussion and exchange of views, we don?t tolerate personal attacks or deliberate flaming and to please report any posts that cross those boundaries.

Thanks

Mamazon · 12/03/2008 22:35

tut tut Jonkat.

yet again you have failed to take the time to read before jumping to conclusions about me.

I don't work in Childrens services.
My field is youth justice. whilst the CA is an underpinning factor of much of my work it is not used or quoted on a daily basis and i don't think i have felt the need to use section 47 on more than a handfull of occasions, usually under teh direction of court.
I have also been a full time carer for 3 years now so i must clearly apologise for not being word perfect

talies - thank you for your message of a good day.

Talies i think you are actually similar in your opinion to the majority of us here...or at least your last few posts would indicate as much. bnut for some reason you seem to wish to debate semantics and presumptions as to the cause of our outrage regarding JH.

Jonkat - you know this family it appears. you seem to have a blind faith in them and can see no wrong in their behaviour. if only we all had a friend like that.
you have persisted in trying to bait me. i hope you found it enjoyable.

i think this thread has run it's course.

PipinJo · 12/03/2008 22:41

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Taliesintraction · 13/03/2008 10:08

Hi there Mamazon,

This thread might indeed have burnt itself out. But to reiterate I am not debating semantics at all or indeed baiting in any form.

All that I have clearly stated is that I will not condemn JH out of hand.

Maybe if I was in there and up close I might change my mind.

However, two people whose judgement I have grown to trust Tania and Jonkat have a level of contact I do not have and their take is not the same as yours.

I think she reached a different decision to you, you have chosen add the value judgement and say that she was wrong. That is your right, I think you are wrong.

I did explain to yurt yesterday some of the reasoning behind my view which is partly based on my personal experiences, perhaps you should all recognise that your take on this is alse based on your personal experience also.

pipinjo,

dear god,

Where to start.

I was going to to a detailed reply to your riseable remark which yet again says that Jonkat finds SN kids revolting, a notion which is so misinformed that it is now becoming funny.

Your flame of jonkat is exactly that.

I am sure he will come back at you when he gets home from where he has been these last two days.

If you actually knew anything about Jonkat, who he really is, what he really thinks about kids, had you been there in half the fights he has fought for the children he fosters and lots of other children besides, you would feel thoroughly ashamed of yourself.

As it is I am going to say you have taken partial evidence and jumped to the wrong conclusions.

FioFio · 13/03/2008 10:21

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Taliesintraction · 13/03/2008 10:26

Well said FioFio,

I wonder if we will all have the same take on "this morning", if my telly survives Jeremy F'in Kyle without my boot going through the screen!

What a load of tosh!!!!!

2shoes · 13/03/2008 11:29

Taliesintraction
you seem to have a awfull lot of opions on people who post on here.
now
howabout temllis us your rl expierence.
what gives you the right to pull Mamazons apart?
so so you have a child with sn??

Taliesintraction · 13/03/2008 11:47

I am not pulling Mamzon apart,

I am saying I don't agree with her thats all.

I have said why I think what I think already.

No disrespect to her/him just we don't agree.

2shoes · 13/03/2008 11:57

why are you so reluctant to answer the question.
have you a child with sn??
as this is the sn board that is a very normal question.
and if you want to support JH why are you and your mate not posting on the thread in the news topic?

FioFio · 13/03/2008 12:02

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2shoes · 13/03/2008 12:04

you are right yet again fio(getting a bit of a habit)
it feels like all the good work of the past year is being undone,
(oh did you see my question about the other forum you spoke of)

FioFio · 13/03/2008 12:08

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Taliesintraction · 13/03/2008 12:12

Sorry not sure about this other thread on news.

Yes I do have an SN child of my own.

I will post more detail about me later if you are curious.

I am pleased that the focus on the telly seems to be more on meeting childrens needs, the dire state of services and how it's those who, like JH force the services hand get support and those who just soldier on get ignored.

2shoes · 13/03/2008 12:12

wow thanks mate. i was only curious. i only use this forum and TTR

PipinJo · 13/03/2008 13:01

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