Trouble at school - I am probably being unreasonable, but I don't know what to do.

[Fav]

Ds (probably AS) has high stress levels throughout school, but masks it completely (to the point where EMS can't make any recommendations as he doesn't show any stress)
He doesn't do homework - was added stress at home, on top of trying to deal with the fall out of post-school meltdowns.
He hasn't done spellings for ages, and as far as I know, this has never been an issue.

Yesterday, I couldn't get ds to school, the TA came out to talk to him, but he was beside himself, and she felt that forcing him in would be humiliating and counterproductive, so we started fresh today with a reward chart, so far so good.

Today, for some reason, his teacher decided that all dc who hadn't done their spellings would be kept in at break to do them - fair enough. Except the last time this happened to ds was weeks ago, so there is no consistency, and this was out of the blue for him.
He has come out of school furious, swearing, lashing out etc.

I went to talk to the teacher (upset and probably came across as angry) and explained that at home, he is extremely dependant, won't do anything without either us supervising heavily or (on a bad day), doing it for him, as we know otherwise it won't be done, and things like teeth and inhalers are non negotiable. As most days are bad at the moment, spellings come way down the list of priorities.
She insists that he either takes responsibility for his spellings, or he does them in his break time. And that's that.

I am more than happy for everyone to point out how unreasonable I am, but please give me clues how to deal with this effectively for ds.

Part of me thinks school is unreasonable for springing this upon him without giving him (and us) some warning that this was going to happen - particularly the day after he refused to go in because he finds things so stressful.
This is the latest in a long list of little niggly things with this teacher. Because he shows no stress at all at school, I'm sure they just have him down a naughty boy, who is playing us all along like fools.

Please come and tell me what to do, and give me because it's going to be a loooong night :(

Good point :o

Poltergoose......Wasn't going to say it but I would have done a chill out day at home for ds too......sounds as if things are getting too heated and need to be de-escalated. Will he have this teacher next year.....if so you need a workable plan but if not then just count down to the end of term because it's nearly here. There is no point banging your head against the wall with some teachers as they just don't get it...you just have to stick out the year as best you can or to sit down and tell them what isn't working and agree a compromised strategy.doesn't help that they have loads of targets and stresses too,plus home stuff/kids of their own etc.
can he have a time out card and someone/somewhere to go.....plus work out what some of the triggers are, it is really hard in primary especially as the kids can't always explain what sets them off......by secondary it can be easier "I hate art because my hands get dirty and I have to lick them a lot" "music makes my ears hurt" .....at least you have clear things to work with. Perhaps try and sit down with him each night and try and work out what went well and what went badly as over time he may become able to help everyone by explaining. It can be a simple as the smell of a classroom, a teacher repeating an annoying phrase that is the trigger. Then you can help him find some coping strategies......then explain to school that what he is doing is his coping strategy (my lad writes on his arm for one of his triggers) . Hard without a proper diagnosis, once you get that lots of doors open and people listen....it does get much easier, lots of wine still gets drunk tho! Good luck.

He'll have a different teacher next year, thankfully. This year really has been dreadful, not sure I could do it again.

I'm meeting the new teacher and the senco next week. To stop me rambling on and going off topic, I'm going to write some sort of presentation about how I hope the next two years are going to go, trying to be inspirational along the way.

I think there is going to be a CAF next week - no idea what to expect, and quite scared about it, so any experiences will be gratefully heard.

He fills in a list every day when he gets home from school - 2 good things, 2 not so good things. So far they are fairly consistent.
I feel that he has fixated on this teacher every bad thing about school, possibly because she unknowingly puts him under a lot of stress (I use the word stress far too often, must invest in a thesaurus!)

Having a bit of a crisis here with ds and I'm not sure how to handle it.
Since I last posted, ds has been sobbing, saying he can't go to school. He wants to die.
He's drawn a picture of school being blown up, and his teacher being crushed under a huge weight (to kill her)

He is adamant that he CAN'T GO TO SCHOOL. He just can't :(

He can't pinpoint what it is (teacher is the main thing), everything is upsetting him.
He's tired and run down. I think he's got to the point where he is ready for a break.

He won't be going into school tomorrow, but how do I handle this for the rest of the term?
He's begging to be homeschooled, but I don't know if mentally I could do that.

There are a couple of ladies who have been running the cygnet course, they teach at the local special school, they both work closely with dc with ASD, would it be wrong to try to ring them tomorrow to ask for some expert advice?

I have explained to ds that it would really help (him? Me? Not sure) if he could talk to someone else (apart from Dh and I) about how he is feeling, least of all because someone else will hopefully see what we see.
Right now, I feel that school is destroying him (but I may well be over dramatic here as I am the one he tells stuff to) He is worn out with it all.

Any advice? :(

I sort of wanted him to agree to having either the HT/senco or the TA come here to talk, but tonight, anything to do with school is dreadful.

He knows I've been to the special school (they have a farm there which I told him about), and he has met the lady who is the deputy head. He asked if he could talk to her, or someone who would understand how he feels. I don't think he wants to talk to anyone connected to school.

I've had some criticism for talking to him about possible AS, and at the moment (well, tonight anyway) I wonder if I'm responsible for how bad things are right now, because on top of feeling awful in school, he now feels like he's not normal.
At the time, it didn't feel like much of a choice tbh, as he was there when the paed said he was on the spectrum, possibly AS, and ds quizzed me about it. At the time, he seemed relieved that it wasn't him who was evil, and I think I've always been very positive about things to him. But tonight I'm not so sure.

I'm still generally feeling fired up about this, and able to make a difference for him, but tonight I genuinely don't know how to make this better for him.

......great news that it is a different teacher next year. A fresh start. I wouldn't go home schooling but I would keep him off for a long weekend for a good rest doing stuff he likes doing so he can get back in control and realise life isn't all bad. Then I would start transitioning him ready for September, seeing new classroom, meeting new teacher,discussing strategies for things that may arise.
We also had an awful time through primary school and around diagnosis time was particularly bad.....now he is secondary and better systems are in place and setting has better understanding of AS he is much much happier and easier to manage. Don't know how many years you have left at that school but if you can look ahead at what teachers he will have in coming years it may be that a change of school may help. Again, much easier in secondary because if there is a teacher that doesn't understand ASC very well then it is only a small part of the day and by that time ds will have learnt better and more ways to cope (hopefully!!).

Fav, he is normal, he's just different with it Is there anyone older that you know that has a Dx that could talk to him? My DS1 had a chat with the Senco about whether/how to tell his classmates, and she told him about someone a few years older that had done a presentation. He also goes to a group with all the other ASD kids at school - not quite sure how I feel about that - where they can talk to each other. Less said about the time they tried to play board games the better

It's such a shame he's been left with anyone qualified to talk to while you're in limboland before a formal dx.

Can I highjack here and ask about the silliness/giddiness = demonstration of stress. How does that work then? DS2 is constantly giggling about being carried into school every morning. They think it's him 'playing up' and being silly. I think it's stress and nervousness. How can I point them in a different direction? (He's on the CDC waiting list)

I've already looked round the secondary school he will hopefully be going to, and I think it will suit him much better, they do seem to understand things better.

He's going into year 5, so two more years at school.

Mono, I can only tell you how giddiness applies to ds - at home we've noticed that unchecked silliness will always end in a meltdown. We've been doing the 5 point scale with him, but for anger, but it seems there's another scale for giddiness - when he reaches number 5 for either, it's meltdown time. At home we now treat it the same as anger and distract or batten down the hatches. He's not able to score himself out of 5 yet for this, but it'll come. We're concentrating on using the scale for anger at the moment, as that is the bigger problem at home.

When we go to the supermarket, if I'm with only him, I can keep him focused and things go ok. When I'm with more dc, ds goes bonkers, but looks like the happiest boy in the world, but I think it's a sensory overload and he doesn't like to do angry in public, so it comes out as very silly/naughty.

I've kept him at home today and have left a message with one of the cygnet ladies. Hopefully she'll get back to me so we can have a chat about this.

.....year 4/5 was our worst too (and 6 was pretty bad too!). Does ds have an obsessions as I found those really useful as a distraction technique for "giddy" behaviour. So did teachers, who actually took the time to work out how he ticked (as opposed to the screaming at him technique!!).So at the point where you feel they are coming up to giddy stuff you start talking about their latest minecraft project (eg) in a really fascinated way, to distract them and start de escalating.our meltdowns were several times a day in primary....one year on and we just don't get them atall anymore:he explains in detail all the things that have bugged him in the day and I nod and sympathise.....job done in his AS mind apparently.
Re supermarket shopping..... Free click and collect......all the way, dear Mr Tesco is one of my best friends!! Anyway, sounds like he is very lucky to have a great Mum on his side so maybe his life is pretty cool after all!

There isn't a calm room, but I don't think ds would want to use it even if there was. He wants to be the same as everyone else (and appears that way at school), so doesn't want to do anything that makes him different.

He has been observed now by 4 different people, all who come away wondering what on earth I am on about!
He looks the same as everyone else in school. He plays happily, he appears to understand instructions, he interacts fine.

He will tell me about mini outbursts he has - answering back to the teacher, running out to playtime when he was meant to stay in, things like that, which to me scream out that things aren't right, but seem to be off the school's radar.
If someone is observing, I think a new person in class ramps up the "normal" behaviour.

Been on the phone all morning trying to get some sort of help - best advice was to go to enhanced mainstream services, they've given up, nothing they can do.

It is incredibly frustrating that I have spent months now watching ds, learning his cues and signals, trying to put things into place to help, and at home, this is generally making a difference. But when I go into school, it doesn't seem to count for anything, because I'm only his mother.

The HT keeps going on about her hands are tied until there is a diagnosis, because then ascoss will get involved and it will be intricately geared around ds's needs, but the people I know who have been through this system say it is borderline whether it is helpful or not, and it is still up to parents to manage the situation and try to put different things into place.

I have turned into an assertive dragon for ds, but it's like banging my head against a brick wall.

Interestingly, he has said that he can't show signs of stress at school, because he's worried he'll lose control.
He feels he doesn't need to show anyone, because they all know he's stressed - I asked why he thought that, he said it was because he is stressed, so they know he is.

It's a work in progress trying to get across to him that if he looks happy, no-one will think he's stressed.

Crossing roads has never been an issue with ds, but again, this is something he was ok with before he was six.

Some things have stuck, and I think (maybe I'm wrong) that he's able to mask things so completely at school because before 6.5 playing, socialising and school were never a problem.

But the masking and having to work to appear like everyone else is what is sapping his energy and stressing him out!

Ds's clin psychologist asked him if he thought there was anyone else at school who might feel or think like he did. DS: How would I know how they feel, I'm not them

But conversely, he's also like Polter's DS "surely the cars know he's going to cross the road and will stop"

I'm trying to think about the silliness - with DS1, he was constantly in trouble at school until year 2. Always "taking things too far" or "not knowing when to stop." He didn't sensory-seek in a classic way, but he would try to seek laughs and attention. He still, at 10, will make repetitive noises or repeat the same crappy joke over and over and over and over.

DS2 though will just laugh and smile and appear amused. As he's running away and off into traffic.

I rang the CDC at the hospital earlier (go me, so brave!) and spoke to one of the autism assessors.

She said that many of the dc they see don't show any signs at school and blend in, so this didn't surprise her at all.
She also said that a diagnosis doesn't suddenly mean that support is thrown at you, there will be limited access through ASCOSS, but in reality it will be as it is now, me doing the research and trying to put things into place, which is what you're saying Crystal.

The HT keeps telling me about the individualised plans put in place, all tailored and tweaked specifically for ds (how on earth is that going to happen when no-one can spot anything?)

At the moment, I know that I (and Dh) know ds and his needs more than anyone, and as I said before, I am getting so f-ing frustrated right now because I'm only his mother, what on earth can I know about strategies etc.

We're going to see one of the cygnet ladies tomorrow. Ds is feeling quite keen to talk to someone who understands (rather than pretending to understand). I mentioned this to HT, who was asking for credentials, how this would help practically, and said we should be going to see the GP again - the GPs get very dramatic and talk depressingly, which would worry ds, then they would say it's not their field, that we should go to CAMHS. CAMHS have told me that as we're on the diagnosis pathway, unless he's self harming or trying to kill himself, there's nothing they can do.
(I believe his mental health is suffering right now, but I now the answer is limiting stress at school. This isn't something that CAMHS can wave a magic wand at.
Ds is telling me (and in a roundabout way trying to show them at school) that school is a real problem. So why is it so difficult to help him?)

So no, I'm not going down that route again. I think that talking to someone who spends her working life with dc with ASD is actually a pretty good idea, and I think they will give me more clues how to deal with this than school can, or anyone else.

Ds isn't on school action +, so when we have the CAF, that is something I will be bringing up, and asking for an IEP.

Sorry, I've probably repeated myself a lot here, but I am soooo frustrated!

Took ds to see one of the cygnet ladies tonight.
We were there an hour and ds was fine, absolutely fine. Showed not one autistic trait whatsoever. Was very articulate, smily, friendly and relaxed (although to me it didn't look a genuine relaxed, but perhaps this is all in my mind and I am creating this issue)
I spoke to the lady later, who was very honest and said he came across as having no problems at all.
I'm very grateful to her for seeing him, and for being honest with me, but right now I don't know what to do any more. Any fight in me has gone.

At home, ds is literally a different boy. When I look at the autism triad of impairments (using the one from the nas website), at home, at the supermarket, at family's houses etc, pretty much anywhere but school (and this ladies house) he fits this. He doesn't perfectly fit "symptoms" of AS or ASD, he has minor obsessions, but they don't rule his life, although I would say he has quite limited interests and things he will tell us, he likes things to be the same, and doesn't like change, but I wouldn't describe him as rigid. When I've been to the cygnet course, the majority of stuff is very familiar, but some things are really not ds.
He went on a residential trip and enjoyed it, was cheeky to the teacher (he is very cheeky in general) remembers it fondly (he was in pieces the run up to it and at least a week after)
We go to centre parcs, again he goes to pieces before and after, but loves it when we're there and again, has very fond memories, doesn't remember the stress before and after.

Tonight he showed empathy (I'm never really sure what empathy means in practice, so I've always skimmed over that bit). When ds is stressed or in meltdown, he doesn't care about anyone, if he's rude to them or hurts them, he just doesn't care, but after, when he's come down, he always apologises and says he hates himself for being bad all the time.

At home he doesn't get idioms and sarcasm, he gets very angry when he doesn't understand what we mean. In public, he never shows this, never looks confused, but will ask me later what xyz means.

We've got the CAF next week, and right now I feel like I am a complete fool. Dragging my poor boy through a process when this is obviously in my head.
Literally no-one at school has ever seen what we see. (Ds's teacher saw the video we made, but this was done on home turf where clearly we are creating a problem)
Family have seen more recently, but have made comments that this is because we are treating him differently since we saw the paed who suggested AS.

The lady suggested to ask at the CAF for social care (?) involvement to get some parenting advice, more strategies to try.
She says it sounds like he has problems with authority (I would agree with this, particularly when it comes to his teacher), although we can get more out of him at home using strategies that make everything clear and easy to know what's to do)

Lately, we have found some strategies that have really been helping to manage things. Ds is still struggling, but things we are doing seem to be helping. He's not attacking us as often as he was, which is brilliant.

But now I feel that we are the worlds shittest parents ever, because there is nothing wrong with ds, but we are trying to make out there is because we are struggling so much. He is struggling so much.

I'm seeing the paed again at the end of this months. I will discuss the conversation with him, explaining how experienced the lady is, and ask where we go from here. (And apologise for wasting his time)

So that's it. Kind of feels like the end of a road with nowhere to turn.
I felt so positive because we were finding ways to really help him, I was going to go into school with laminated 5 point scales, all sorts of strategies. What a fool.

But how is he so fine at school, but at home so different?
Surely they would see something, but there's nothing to see. Nothing that anyone, even experienced people, can see.
How?

At home he could be a different person. His description of a school day is entirely different to how people observing him perceive (if that's the right word)

Do boys sometimes present like girls? Is that possible?

It's no wonder I can't get anyone to take me seriously.

Just remembered something else she said, that she said was definitely against typical ASD behaviour.
Ds says he doesn't like getting things right, even for rewards. He doesn't try hard at school to earn merits (he doesn't appreciate a paper certificate and will rip it up).
At home, we have lists that we follow, one for morning, one for evening and one for bedtime. He will follow these for a couple of haribos. For the first time in months he is doing his inhalers by himself, brushing his teeth himself. He still needs prompting, but having the lists (and I suppose the immediate reward) seems to clear his mind and makes him able to do things calmly.
So there is another example of completely different behaviour at home and school.
So bloody confusing.

We have sort of booked a private assessment with someone called Veronica Bliss. I have been told that she has a good reputation and is well thought of, but have no idea how to find this out for myself. I don't want to spend money we don't have for a) something that's not worth the paper it's written on or b) to be laughed out of the place because ds is clearly fine.

Thank you for suggesting some threads to look for.
And thank you for coming and talking to me yet again!