Trouble at school - I am probably being unreasonable, but I don't know what to do.

[Fav]

Ds (probably AS) has high stress levels throughout school, but masks it completely (to the point where EMS can't make any recommendations as he doesn't show any stress)
He doesn't do homework - was added stress at home, on top of trying to deal with the fall out of post-school meltdowns.
He hasn't done spellings for ages, and as far as I know, this has never been an issue.

Yesterday, I couldn't get ds to school, the TA came out to talk to him, but he was beside himself, and she felt that forcing him in would be humiliating and counterproductive, so we started fresh today with a reward chart, so far so good.

Today, for some reason, his teacher decided that all dc who hadn't done their spellings would be kept in at break to do them - fair enough. Except the last time this happened to ds was weeks ago, so there is no consistency, and this was out of the blue for him.
He has come out of school furious, swearing, lashing out etc.

I went to talk to the teacher (upset and probably came across as angry) and explained that at home, he is extremely dependant, won't do anything without either us supervising heavily or (on a bad day), doing it for him, as we know otherwise it won't be done, and things like teeth and inhalers are non negotiable. As most days are bad at the moment, spellings come way down the list of priorities.
She insists that he either takes responsibility for his spellings, or he does them in his break time. And that's that.

I am more than happy for everyone to point out how unreasonable I am, but please give me clues how to deal with this effectively for ds.

Part of me thinks school is unreasonable for springing this upon him without giving him (and us) some warning that this was going to happen - particularly the day after he refused to go in because he finds things so stressful.
This is the latest in a long list of little niggly things with this teacher. Because he shows no stress at all at school, I'm sure they just have him down a naughty boy, who is playing us all along like fools.

Please come and tell me what to do, and give me because it's going to be a loooong night :(

[Fav]

We've had a lovely day today.
Apart from a few situations, everything has gone ds's way, so he has been happy and relaxed (so of course I'm now doubting myself more than ever :o)

From tomorrow I'm going to sneakily film him going into and coming out of school (hoody over eyes, expressionless), I'm going to take a step back from managing everything at home so I can film his reaction to things when he comes home stressed.

Something else which Dh and I noticed last night (because it has happened before - please tell me if this is crap and useless info). Ds asked for beans on toast for tea last night. When Dh gave it to him, ds immediately blew up "this isn't beans on toast", wailing and ranting as if we'd given him poo on toast. Only just stopped him throwing the whole lot on the floor (we'd had a Tour de France day so he was on the angry side anyway). Turns out beans on toast is two pieces of toast with beans on top. Dh had given him one piece of toast

Is this something to note, or just spoiled brattiness?

Another thing - whenever we all eat together, round a table, ds loses it, will either be very angry or gets rude and silly. Nothing we say or do makes any difference. Is this something that happens, or again, just naughtiness?

[Fav]

So pleased the hay fever is passing - your ds has my sympathies, it's rubbish!

I've remembered that when the lady was talking to ds, she asked him if when he came down from a meltdown he felt bad - he agreed with her rather than saying by himself that he felt bad.
He does this a lot - if he's feeling upset or cross, if you ask him how he's feeling, he doesn't really know. If you suggest feeling bad, or stressed, he will agree.

[Schoolsoutforsummer]

I think you are so used to accommodating your child's needs that you no longer see it. This makes you a good parent! You are not spoiling him - you are making life possible.

Solicitor got me to video all those type of moments: DS1 getting dressed, DS2 "talking" for Tribunal. Videos are hard evidence.

On another thread, someone recommended an American, Ross Green - his premise was all children want to do well and those that are failing are those with problems. It rang so true. It is not naughtiness - yes, there will be elements of that somewhere in your DS's every day behaviour - it is bigger than him, than you and you both need support.

I am now off to look at the girl with curly hair link - thanks to everyone: MN is so useful.

[bjkmummy]

what other professionals have been involved with him? has he ever seen an OT or a SALT? it does sound like he struggles with language - often just because children can talk their difficulties are over looked, there may be a processing delay - there are so many things that can still be looked at rather than just one person saying 'no - no issues' I have in writing a report on my son aged 4 saying unlikely a dx of ASD would ever be given as teaching staff felt he wasn't - fast forward to him aged 9 and he is one of the most complex kids you would meet, has a dx of asd and numerous others and is in an indie asd day school! so professionals can be wrong - what I have always said is that a mums instinct is never wrong, it can be a huge battle to get others to see/help but your mum instinct is absolutely spot on

[ouryve]

I've been following tour thread, fav, but with not much to offer, as DS1's presentation is far from subtle and he doesn't mask.

The handwriting issue is one that DS1 has. His fine motor skills are far better than his gross motor skills, as his visuo-spatial awareness is exceptional, which makes up, to an extent for his poor proprioception and motor planning. His handwriting suffers due to his bendy fingers, though (and your DS does sound very bendy - DS2 is very bendy but can't do that with his shoulders). The fact that his fingertips bend means that he doesn't get the sensory feedback when he's holding the pen or pencil, so grips very hard, which is tiring.

If you're in spitting distance of Darlo, btw, and need a good sensory OT, then look up Amanda Hunter.

[Fav]

In school in the last two and a half years he has been observed by an educational psychologist, behavioural support (from the council I think), enhanced mainstream services and a parent support advisor. None have seen anything at all to be concerned about.
On Thursday at the CAF I will suggest that there's no point in him being observed in school, as no-one is going to see anything. (Thank you for whoever mentioned that - such a simple thing, but it had never crossed my mind to have him watched somewhere else!)

The lady from enhanced mainstream services did a speech and language assessment (not sure how detailed), which showed him at only 4 points below average, so no problem, a sensory audit at school (no problem).

The problems he has he seems to able to expertly mask, like idioms - he will only admit to Dh and I that he doesn't understand something. To everyone else he make the right noises, appears to be understanding everything, then asks us later, or goes to pieces. This is something I can voice record though, so I'll easily be able to provide evidence of this.

Ouryve, I'm not far from Darlington, so I'll give her a ring, thank you. His sensory issues seem to only affect him when under stress though, so this may be yet another area where no-one can spot anything, but everything's worth a try.

It feels horrible that we're willing to go to such lengths to prove that there's something "wrong" with ds when everyone else sees normal boy behaviour.
Sometimes the behaviour he shows is so subtle that maybe we will only ever be the ones who spot it.
Waiting on the roadside for the Tour de France on Saturday, he was obviously (to us) holding everything in, and went through a range of behaviours, from rude/giddy, to angry and to lying on a pile of coats absolutely expressionless and ignoring us all. To us, these were clear signs, but to anyone watching, no sign at all.

It's awful watching him go into school at the moment. He doesn't show any outward signs that he's unhappy, but he needs a little while to brace himself before going in, then goes in with hoody up or hair over his eyes, with no expression at all. I know tonight's going to be tricky, so I will be ready to try to film him.

Thank you for all your input to this thread, you're all giving me loads of ideas and fresh things to think about

[Fav]

Thought I'd just report that I've had a really positive meeting with ds's new teacher.
He's really on board with putting in strategies. I think he'll be consistent and clear.
Ds has been doing some transitions with him, and (hallelujah) he has spotted signs of ds not being happy and struggling with his work (at last!)
So I'm confident that the teacher will be able to spot when ds needs some extra support.

[Schoolsoutforsummer]

Fav - that is wonderful. It makes school look hopeful for next year. It is such a relief when people tune in and you don't have to explain, tell them what to do, and how to enable all the time.

[Fav]

Quick question if anyone's around!
We got ds a weighted blanket - when ds is having a meltdown, he often buries himself under duvets and pillows. I would have put money on him loving a blanket.
He came home from school, tried it for about 5 seconds and declared he hated it!

Is it worth persevering with? He was quite calm when he tried it, if that makes a difference.
Do I wait for a meltdown then throw it on top of him? (Joking! sort of)

Thank you :)

[Shropshirelass1]

My ds has a heavy blanket that he chose to use.....it gets left in his room and he uses it when he wants to (which is a huge amount). Ds also has a huge bean bag with fluffy piLlows filled with bean bag filling to use in combination with the blanket, all are left in a den area for him, his books and electric gadgets are there too. I suggest you put the blanket together with some cushions, pillow and favourite toys in a corner and say you have made a den for him and then let him decide when and how he uses it. We had a great time designing ds dream den area and he really seems to get comfort from it....even goes there by his own choice for half hour before school to work up to the stresses of the day! Plus after school to chill out, it really works for him (it's so relaxing I go there myself sometimes with a glass of wine!!). You may find he uses it before a meltdown to prevent one as he gets a bit older and wiser.

[Fav]

Thank you.
I won't send it back yet then.
I'd quite like him to try it in bed, he takes forever to settle. If I leave it on his bed he might give it a try.

[Fav]

Ah. He's asleep under it right now!
I'll make sure tomorrow we take it off before we go to bed.

I've got a few voice recordings tonight. I'm sure if anyone else listens, they'll just hear a naughty boy. He's been quite agitated all night and struggling to focus.
We plan to bombard him with idioms tomorrow night.

We ended up playing The Map Game () tonight to help him calm down and settle. (Read the instructions and avoid like the plague.)
Open up an atlas on a random page. Pick an obscure, unpronounceable, tiny village. Wait excitedly until your co-player either guesses correctly or gives up.
I have never won, which obviously means ds is a genius and wins every game (apparently)

I've tried to introduce a slight twist to the game - telling your opponent the village name to make up for lack of mind reading skills, but no, this would be boring.

[ouryve]

DS1 occasionally uses his blanket to help him get off to sleep, then wriggles out of it, some time in the night.

[Fav]

Ugh, sorry, dramatics again

Backstory: school are putting on a performance of Macbeth, acted by the juniors.
Ds was beside himself about this, hated Macbeth and hated school anyway.
So, last week after we got to a point where ds had two days off because he was so stressed with it all, he was given the option to opt out of Macbeth.
Hooray, great relief.
Monday he had a great day, did numeracy instead of rehearsals (not great but anyway). Yesterday, dress rehearsal. All the rest of the school watched bloody Macbeth while ds did another extra hour of numeracy.
Today, ds has been told that during another dress rehearsal, he will again be doing extra numeracy.
He's now refusing to go into school.
I spoke to the HT, who has said that he maybe needs to learn that if he opts out of one thing, he won't be doing something fun instead.

And the thing is, in general, I agree. I totally agree.
But this week, when we've worked so hard to get him in happily, with promises of stickers, loom bands and a visit to a bird of prey centre after he's broken up, this week, I'm fuming.
We've had hours and hours of meltdowns since Wednesday night. Hours of working out with him and explaining that he has to be in school.
And we did it, we won that battle, he was in school.
And now I cNt get him in again.
I wanted them to go easy on him this last couple of weeks, to try to get him happy to go in, and I thought I'd said that to them (but stupidly didn't email this). I spoke to his teacher briefly on Monday morning and explained he wasn't happy, it had taken a lot of work to get him there.

We have the CAF tomorrow morning. I want to say what I've said here, but will I come across as overly precious?
Please tell me honestly if I'm being too soft on him.
I really want to get my point across, but I won't if it's a crap point iykwim.

[OneInEight]

Can't remember how many times we have tried to explain that to get a school refuser / school hater into school there has to be something for that child to enjoy at school. When ds2 was having all sorts of problems in Year 5 he was given a starring role in his class assembly by his lovely very brave teacher. It was the only two weeks in the entire year that he went in happily.

[Fav]

Right. He's in.
His room and the lounge have been trashed, I have had a big heavy cushion thrown at my head. The washing machine has been dented because he kicked it so hard. I think he's loosened a window by throwing a cushion at it.
I have been punched, slapped and sworn at.
But he's in.

He was worked up about swimming because last week the teacher warned them it was going to be boring. This morning is the first I've heard about it.
I spoke briefly to the HT this morning - she feels that he has been allowed to opt out, but this proves we have done the wrong thing.
I think doing extra numeracy every day would be enough to piss off any child.
I spoke to the parent support advisor, and I think that basically, what's happening is that deep down, school don't believe. He is a normal child in school, and as such, they have no option but to treat him as such. They put things into place, but don't allow for any flexibility.
I'm pretty sure that if I was a teacher in school yesterday, I would think that making ds do an hours extra numeracy when the rest of the school were watching Macbeth might be annoying for him.

I don't want him to be allowed to choose everything he does, but if would like a little thought and a few minor allowances to be made so that we can be a functioning family.

But he acts normally at school, so no-one sees anything.

Spoke to my sister. I think she feels that there is no ASD, but he has some deep seated anger problems.
I honestly don't know what to think any more.

[Shropshirelass1]

Yup, certainly remember very well that primary scenario and how unbending staff can be.....sports day, school plays....end of term is just a nightmare. Only advice I can give is to just keep talking with ds, minimum role in play with a nook or gadget to get through rehearsals might work if staff are open minded enough. Or just have some "ill" days at tactical times and have a "ds" day. Once school are not on your ds side it gets very difficult and actually no one wins so it's all a bit pointless. Shame as school could have handled it so differently and found a valid role suitable for him. I would try and let it wash over you both as much as you can as its so close to end of term, just try and get some treats in each day and count down to end of term.....it's so close. Much better at secondary, so many kids with so many issues that teachers have to be a bit more open minded. This painful bit does get better,honest!!!!! Maybe HT needs to have some training on learning how to engage all the children and try and be more inclusive, instead of the usual it's my way or no way.so painful.

[Fav]

In general, I would say that the HT is fantastic.
The things that they put in place, I feel, lacked any imagination or putting themselves into an 8/9 year old boy's shoes.

He was allowed a break between first and second lesson. Ds felt that no sooner had he sat down than he was being asked to come in again, so I suggested a kitchen timer, so he knew how long he had (works a t home for iPad time). They didn't do this, then a teacher walked behind him and said "ooh, ds, have you been naughty?" So he begged to stop doing his.

He struggled with noise in the dining room, so I asked that he had his lunch in a classroom, so they did, with the nursery children. This was fine for a bit, but for a 9 yr old to spend lunchtime with three yr olds is humiliating. There was no option (that I am aware of) for him to choose a couple of friends to go in with him.

He does the 5 point scale, which we also do at home. He's kicking off about that at school, because he feels they do it in a way that singles him out, but his way of kicking off in school is not being honest about how he's feeling, so when he is feeling a 3 (stressed), he'll tell them he's at 1 or 2 (fine). So even more, they believe that everything in school is fine.

I was told to ask about school action +. He is not on this, but I've been told that he can't be on it without a diagnosis because academically he is fine.
On Monday, when ds spent an afternoon with his new teacher, the new teacher told me how worried he was about his numeracy, and was concerned how much he had slipped (or not progressed) in the last year. He was shocked how easily ds gave up on it, and at his lack of confidence.

I'm so sick of this. At home ds shows so many signs of ASD, but maybe I'm making this up and twisting things so that it's not Dh and I to blame for all these problems.
The way ds hides things, I can honestly see him going through assessments and still no-one seeing anything at all. And hen what do we do :(

[Schoolsoutforsummer]

He won't get through good assessments without it coming through. Ed psych for DS2 made me cry, never mind him, but she deliberately pushed every single one of his buttons and openly said she had, because she felt she had to see where his boundaries were. A horrible experience for him, horrendous to read the resulting comments but in the long run - definitely worth it. We went from her to an amazing psychiatrist, at her recommendation and whilst I hated what she was telling me, she was right and the psychiatrist was one of those eureka moments.

I understand what you are saying but the accommodations that are in place aren't up to much. Numeracy on that scale should only be for a child who loves Maths or one that needs massive intervention and then, should be alongside a TA, teacher, or specialist teacher.

Would your DS talk on video about school and how it makes him feel by the end of the day? There are some great guiding questionnaires - I'd be more than happy to go find you one.

Please Fav, you are not imagining this. I would wish my kids' stuff all away but it doesn't work like that. Just because other people don't get to live it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Life is tough. Is there any chance you could take him for a private assessment. I would hand on heart recommend our psychiatrist and I am sure there are loads more people on here who also know of wonderful professionals.

[Fav]

I have recorded (voice only) parts of the meltdowns he had on weds and Thursday and parts of this mornings episode.

A guiding questionnaire would be great, because I know that it's so easy to put words into ds's mouth. Thank you.

We have the parent support lady coming tonight, and the house is not going to be tidy and clean because ds trashed it. As long as the floor is clear I don't car now.

Ds1 has his year 8 graduation this afternoon, so I'm at the cathedral all afternoon doing this.

I'm sick of fighting against people who don't believe me.

Sorry, I'm back to being pathetic today. I can't believe what a roller coaster this all is.