EHCP support thread no. 6

[Needlenardlenoo]

This thread is to support everyone engaged in the EHCP process. The purpose is two fold: so that you don't feel alone if you're involved with it, and so you can easily find posters who are experienced with the various difficulties to help point you in the right direction, whether that be by giving general advice, telling you specifically what action should, or could, be taken in a particular situation, or countering common myths you will hear, such as:

"Your child is not X enough to get an EHCP"
"The school has to do/pay Y first"
"EHCPs are only for Z situation"
"The local authority do X/say Y/won't do Z" (the SEN Code 2014 applies to the whole of England: it doesn't vary by local authority). [Wales and Scotland have different regimes].

It is particularly important at the moment to understand clearly what your child's rights actually are in law (not what the school or LA or Sendias say they are), when the government are actively trying to remove EHCPs and are leaking stories regularly to the media, with the intention, I suspect, of deflecting attention from their own shortcomings onto parents who are already in a difficult situation. If in doubt, the charity IPSEA has neutral and factual information:
https://www.ipsea.org.uk/

Here are links to previous threads:

Original EHCP support thread - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4834986-ehcp-support-thread
EHCP support thread no. 2 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4989146-ehcp-support-thread-no-2
EHCP support thread no. 3 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5077140-ehcp-support-thread-no-3
EHCP support thread no. 4 -
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5197351-ehcp-support-thread-no-4
EHCP support thread no. 5 -
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5309128-ehcp-support-thread-no-5?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=app_share [please post on here till it's full]

To prepare for the AR meeting, go through the advice and information that should have been circulated by now. Make sure it is accurate. Reports should cover needs, recommendations for ongoing provision (including the strategies and approaches that work and what doesn’t work), and outcomes. It should also cover progress. Then also go through any other evidence you have and the existing EHCP. This will help you know in advance what needs raising, what amendments are required and the evidence to support any changes that are needed/support not amending the elements that don’t need amending. It is worth making a list of anything else you want to mention and any questions you have too.

Hi all. We have now had a draft EP report back for our refusal to issue EHCP appeal. It's really comprehensive and it really encapsulates everything. He is clear that DD9's (AuDHD with sensory modulation challenges) needs are pervasive across all four areas of the SEND CoP, her structural communication ability hides narrative discourse deficits, she has word-finding difficulties, significant sensory issues, emerging OCD tendencies, extensively internalises/masks, is "significantly underachieving" at school and that there is a high likelihood that without the provision outlined, she will return to last year's state of burnout (where we struggled significantly with EBSA).

He has also diagnosed dyslexia and dysgraphia and that in his view she is likely to meet the threshold for DCD. She has a very high reading comprehension level (92nd percentile), but average word decoding (66th percentile) and bordering on low average spelling (27th percentile).

He also states that despite a high average IQ (with fluid reasoning being very high range and one of the non-verbal reasoning subsets being on 98th percentile), her written work is at year 3 level (she is year 5 and her teachers say she is at "age-expected" levels 🤔).

For both the OT and EP assessments, we have both the full-length report and the 15-page summaries. Do we send both to the tribunal/LA or just the summaries?

I am also wondering (worrying) about what sort of secondary school would be the most suitable.

We are in a grammar school area (top 25% rather than super-selective) and DD wants to take the 11+ (though how much of that is down to peer discussion..). However whilst she is obviously cognitively able (though no guarantee that she would pass), I wonder if the academic pressure would be too much.

However, I am unsure if any of the huge, busy comprehensives would be suitable (and I think her needs could get lost amongst those with more external-presenting needs, as has been the case at primary).

The OT's view was that due to the EBSA history, DD would not cope in mainstream (apart from in a separate base). However I wonder how much is because she has not had her needs met (or even identified in the case of the SpLd).

Would be really grateful for anyone's experience or thoughts.

Reports need to comply with the practice directions, so they need to be a maximum of 15 pages.

If there is good reason why additional pages are required in your case, you can request SENDIST accepts further pages via a SEND7. However, permission isn’t guaranteed.

Whether you submit the reports to SENDIST as well as the LA depends on when your appeal was registered. The documentation you received from SENDIST will tell you. Previously, you submitted evidence to SENDIST at the same time as you sent it to the LA. The new directions (although contradictory) differ and you just send to your LA. So it depends on if your appeal is under the new or old rules.

I would think very carefully about MS if DD struggles with the sensory environment &/or demands of primary school. For many, secondary can be so much more overwhelming in that regard. Bases/units/RPs vary in how they run. One way they vary is in how much integration with mainstream lessons they expect. For some, they don’t work because ultimately they are still part of the overwhelming mainstream environment with all the demands that entails.

@KeepItSpinning thanks so much for the clarification re. funding.

Annual review was this week, shall I wait for the LA decision notice before suggesting amendments? School are suggesting amendments so not sure if I should try and add mine to the same document?

The AR meeting is just one part of the AR process.

Were your views and wishes sought prior to the AR meeting? They should have been. Did you raise the amendments that are required during the AR meeting? You should have, but don’t panic if you didn’t. The report circulated following AR meeting shouldn’t be all one-sided. All PoVs should be recorded. Sadly, some schools don’t do this. When you receive the report, if it doesn’t, contact the LA.

If the LA propose to amend, you will get the opportunity to propose any amendments when you receive the amendment notice/notice of amendment/draft (whatever you want to call it).

@KeepItSpinning would it be okay if PM you?

@Ponche of course you can.

@KeepItSpinning Thank you so much. So I have SENDIST-compliant 15-page reports from both the EP and OT. But they have also both sent extended versions. Just wondered if I needed to send those as well or just the 15-page reports.

I can't remember the date the appeal was registered, but I have an extended evidence deadline of next Fri and I have just checked the tribunal order and it says evidence needs to be sent to both the tribunal and the other party.

We haven't looked around any schools yet, and I know they all differ but my instinct is against a mainstream unit over either type of school. I imagine there's some that are run well, but they do strike me as an isolated add on as opposed to an inclusive environment.

I think if an EHCP is granted, another appeal would probably be needed for SS. The OT only recommends an independent SS or a mainstream unit. And although the EP recommends lots of individual provision (eg 1:1 SpLd tutor, OT, emotion and MH support), I think the LA could easily argue for mainstream.

Getting ahead of myself, but we're in East Kent; not even sure there are any nearby SS that would suit DD's profile?

Unless there is a good reason reports longer than 15 pages are necessary, don’t submit the longer reports. If there is good reason why additional pages are required in your case, you will need to submit a SEND7 requesting they allow the longer reports, which may or may not be agreed.

If DD may even remotely be OK academically in a grammar school, a problem you would have finding a special/specialist school is the academics. Depending on where you are in East Kent, you could look at Ripplevale and Great Oaks Small school. However, while these offer more academics than many, they aren’t at the level of a mainstream school.

While the EP can say OT input and further advice and information is required, they cannot make detailed comments on needs/provision outside of their remit. I hope they have done the former, not the latter, otherwise SENDIST is likely to raise an eyebrow.

@KeepItSpinning Thank you again for the advice.

Yes, that's what I thought. The EP calculated her FSIQ to be 116, her fluid reasoning was 123 and reading comprehension 121. There were a couple of non-verbal reasoning subset scores on the 98th percentile.

Obviously her mental health is more important than academics. But not being supported academically could also cause issues.

What's your view on Laleham Gap?

So with regards to OT, he identified aspects himself eg in relation to sensory seeking and visual motor integration, but otherwise extensively quoted and referred to the OT's report. He took the provision recommendation from there too.

He stated that in his opinion DD would meet the threshold for a DCD diagnosis, but deferred that to paediatrics/OT for an assessment. He also recommended an auditory processing assessment. Out of interest, how would those two things be followed up?

@Namechange857 Auditory Processing Disorder requires a referral to one of the few specialist centres that can diagnose APD. Have a look at the APD support UK website for referral details. We went to UCLH and they were great. Be aware that many LA sensory support teams won't support APD!

@Namechange857 from what you have posted, I don’t think Laleham Gap or somewhere like Snowfields will be able to meet DD’s needs. Presumably the OT didn’t if he recommended independent SS or a unit.

For OT related needs/provision, the OT report will be more valuable than the EP report will be.

For APD, if you can get a referral to Prof. Doris-Eva Bamiou at UCL, she is at the top of her field and her evidence is very helpful at Tribunal.

Many have to appeal to get support. I have 2 DSs with provision for APD, including ToD support, in their EHCPs, but they only have that because we appealed then enforced the provision. My LA still disagrees, but their opinion is irrelevant. They can huff and puff and mutter about not having an HI in their opinion all they like.

For DCD, it depends on the local pathway. I am not in your LA, so check, but I believe in East Kent you need a referral to the OT service (having jumped through hoops) who will then refer to community paeds where necessary.

@handmademitlove @KeepItSpinning

Thank you both, really helpful.

I was actually going to also ask about Snowfields; a family member goes there. However, she is not academic.

The EP also said that she needed a proper evaluation by a psychiatrist or a clinical psychologist to determine whether her obsessive compulsive rituals are actually OCD or manifestations of the ASD. She had had an online appointment with a mental health practitioner at CAMHS who after consulting with "the team" concluded that because she wasn't in crisis, discharged to community mental health practitioner team. She's had two appointments with them so far (and two been cancelled 🙄), which, frankly have been as useful as a chocolate teapot.

How would that be progressed?

You have a few options for psychiatrist &/or CP input.

1. You could request another referral back to CAMHS rather than the PCN MHP. You can use the EP report as evidence of need. Then complain if refused.
2. You could request the LA seeks the advice as part of the EHCP process. However, they may well try to refuse. Even if they do seek it, it may not be good.
3. You could seek an independent assessment. Then, when you secure an EHCP, use that to inform the EHCP/appeal. However, think ahead. You may still have another appeal ahead of you after the RTI appeal. You may need updated EP &/or OT reports or addenda. You may need a SALT report. So think ahead, otherwise you risk costs spiralling.

@KeepItSpinning Thank you 🙂 Just when you think the hard bit is done for now... Who does APD referrals?

I did a few months ago ask SENDIST to direct the LA to conduct additional assessments (including clinical psychologist) however they refused.

I had previously checked the OT referral system and they only accept referrals from educational or health professionals. I think GP might be easier than school. (Kept promising they would do an OT sensory referral tumbleweed)

Can I check, when I do the updated case review form, under the What are the outstanding issues section, do I literally just put something like I consider provision needs to be made in line with an EHCP, which is opposed by the LA? Or should I also outline what the main discrepancies are? (Eg the LA considers DD to have no C&L needs! When she has dyslexia, dysgraphia, lexical access deficits, VMI weakness and pretty much a six-year gap between her reading comprehension and writing output).

@Namechange857 APD is Auditory Processing Disorder. You can simply write something like ‘whether it is necessary for an EHCP to be issued.’ or ‘whether an EHCP should be issued.’

@KeepItSpinning Thank you! Oh, sorry, I meant who would do a referral for an APD assessment? GP?

@Namechange857 Sorry, I completely misread your post! You very clearly asked who referred. I shouldn’t try to respond whilst doing something else.

Who APD services accept a referral from depends on the service. Paeds, ENT and (secondary care upwards) audiology services can usually refer. Some services accept GP referrals.

@KeepItSpinning Oh, no worries! I really appreciate all of your help and knowledge.

Could I ask a couple more things? Is the case management review just to check all the paperwork is in order, etc?

Is there a chance that the LA will concede after seeing additional evidence? Who actually looks at it?

And does it ever make sense to request a paper hearing?

@Namechange857 personally, I wouldn’t agree to the appeal being heard on the papers.

Yes, there is a chance the LA will concede between now and the HD. LAs can and do concede right up to the day before and even on the day of the hearing. To give you an example from my own DC, one of DS1’s content appeals had the LA’s barrister turn up late to the hearing and concede. Infuriating! I have had the LA concede 2 other appeals for my DC.

At the LA, the LA’s Tribunal Officer will look at the case. There may or may not be paralegals, solicitors &/or a barrister who look at it at some point.

The CMR is SENDIST checking if the case is ready to be heard, if anything needing doing, how long is needed, etc. Many don’t hear anything. Some will receive an Order telling one or both parties to do something &/or provide something. Some have a CRH - less likely in your case. Some will have a TCMH arranged - very, very unlikely in your case.

Hi all. I’m awaiting a first tier tribunal appeal (not until the middle of next year) but I’ve seen the local authority’s submission today and it’s kind of broken me. I have always been fairly robust during this process, I don’t know why I’m being such a wimp.

It’s just the horrible tone. It shouldn’t matter, but it does. The way they have cherry-picked the EP report to make it sounds like she’s fine when the whole report makes it clear that she isn’t. The way they claim her SN is “mild”. It fucking well is not. The way they make me sound.

SN parenting is so hard. I am really tired today as I was up in the night with her. I can’t talk to anyone other than DH about this as they don’t understand.

I think we’re going to have to lawyer up at this stage. Either that or give up altogether. It’s so deeply unfair - DD has friends who have the same profile who are in special school. Everyone I know with a child in a similar position got there in the end, but I just don’t know if we will.

@KeepItSpinning Thank you again 🙂

Yes, have heard stories of LAs conceding right at the very last minute. I can imagine how absolutely frustrating that was. What a complete waste of time for everyone. The LA did actually concede in our appeal against refusal to assess on the day before they were due to set out their response so have seen how they can play things.

Obviously this time they have said they are opposing the appeal, but wondering if there's a chance they will concede at the point of CMR. I know no one can tell me and it's likely they will play the long game, but it's so frustrating!

The EP we had was actually one recommended by yourself and he was amazing. Nothing in his report was a surprise to me (even the new diagnoses) because it was exactly how it is. He was also incredibly effective (yet diplomatic) at pulling apart the LA EP's report. Just reading the two side by side is like comparing something written by a primary school child to a university student.

@Robotindisguise Which appeal are you at?

First tier tribunal - we appealed successfully for them to assess, then they assessed and said there was no need to issue. We’re appealing that now.

Hi all, I posted on here a while back in January when first submitting an EHCNA for DD. I’ve been over on the EBSA thread but thought my question was more appropriate for here really.

Quick background is DD is Y7. She is academic and very articulate/self aware and has an autism diagnosis. She has struggled with mainstream secondary and pretty much hadn’t attended since October. She got a place at MNHES (Medical Needs school) and started there in April on a very reduced timetable (1 hour Monday, 2 hours Tuesday and 1 hour Thursday). It’s been very up and down but I feel like we have finally cracked it and she has gone in happily for the past week.

She had a visit from an Educational Psychologist last week who was very good and totally understood her and her needs. He submitted the report yesterday and today I’ve had an email saying the SEN Panel have agreed to issue an EHCP, which I am VERY shocked about as I was fully expecting it to be rejected. Even the EP warned us that he thinks it would be rejected, as my area has a rejection rate of around 87%. EP also told me we need to start researching schools as they take our preference into account. I haven’t actually started doing this yet as I expected the process to be much longer so I feel a bit panicked now. I do know that there’s not much (if any) provision really suitable for a highly academic child who has SEMH needs locally, so it’s going to be difficult.

Anyway they have emailed me and said ‘Part of the process when we issue a Draft EHCP is to consult with the current school, and any parental preferences. May I please just confirm that it’s your preference for DD to remain at [current school] while accessing MNHES.’

I would like her to continue at MNHES for as long as possible as it will be good for her, but i know her current school cannot meet her needs longer term. Do I need to be telling them about my longer term preferences at this point or do they mean what my preference is right now?