EHCP support thread no. 6

[Needlenardlenoo]

This thread is to support everyone engaged in the EHCP process. The purpose is two fold: so that you don't feel alone if you're involved with it, and so you can easily find posters who are experienced with the various difficulties to help point you in the right direction, whether that be by giving general advice, telling you specifically what action should, or could, be taken in a particular situation, or countering common myths you will hear, such as:

"Your child is not X enough to get an EHCP"
"The school has to do/pay Y first"
"EHCPs are only for Z situation"
"The local authority do X/say Y/won't do Z" (the SEN Code 2014 applies to the whole of England: it doesn't vary by local authority). [Wales and Scotland have different regimes].

It is particularly important at the moment to understand clearly what your child's rights actually are in law (not what the school or LA or Sendias say they are), when the government are actively trying to remove EHCPs and are leaking stories regularly to the media, with the intention, I suspect, of deflecting attention from their own shortcomings onto parents who are already in a difficult situation. If in doubt, the charity IPSEA has neutral and factual information:
https://www.ipsea.org.uk/

Here are links to previous threads:

Original EHCP support thread - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4834986-ehcp-support-thread
EHCP support thread no. 2 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4989146-ehcp-support-thread-no-2
EHCP support thread no. 3 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5077140-ehcp-support-thread-no-3
EHCP support thread no. 4 -
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5197351-ehcp-support-thread-no-4
EHCP support thread no. 5 -
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5309128-ehcp-support-thread-no-5?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=app_share [please post on here till it's full]

When your appeal is registered, you will get a date for the final evidence deadline. You don’t need to submit a SEND7 to submit evidence before the deadline. You can email SENDIST and the LA (although some are now being told they don't need to email SENDIST if before the final evidence deadline. When you get them, read your case directions. I have reservations about this change.) If you needed to submit late evidence or request the evidence deadline is moved, then you would need to go down the SEND7 route.

When the LA respond to your appeal, they should include certain information, including some information from and about your preferred placement. If they don’t, you can raise the matter.

After the LA’s response, if the LA is refusing to consult with your preferred school, you can ask SENDIST to Order the LA to consult.

If the school is a maintained school in another LA, they must consult the LA as well as the school.

Rather than a SEND7 just for the correspondence, I would make SARs for all data. However, I would wait until the LA has responded to the appeal so you capture any data generated as part of their response.

Thank you so much.

I've received an email saying that the LA concede and will name the school in Section I within 5 weeks.

As I also appealed sections B and F, will they continue to work on agreeing these sections until their 5 week deadline?

Do I need a consent order or partial consent order? Is this something I need to do or the LA? / where can I find this form? Or is it an email?

Sorry for the many questions

You don’t need to do anything at this point. Although I would contact the school to discuss transition, they may not talk to you until they hear from the LA. If you are appealing B&F as well, the appeal will continue even if section I is settled. You and the LA can work on resolving the outstanding disputed content via the working document process. This will continue up to the hearing or until the case is settled by consent (or you withdraw the appeal - don’t do that). You don’t need a consent order. The appeal is still ongoing. If the LA concedes the whole appeal, the LA will initiate completing the SEND46 which they and you complete and send to SENDIST, but you don’t need to do that if B&F are outstanding.

If the LA issue another finalised EHCP, there is some inconsistency as to how this is being handled. SENDIST is making some who have amended versions submit fresh appeals because it supersedes the EHCP subject to appeal. Then consolidate the appeals. Yet other times, SENDIST is allowing the exact same circumstances to be incorporated in to the existing appeal without a new SEND35 being submitted.

Thank you so much. I've been finding the appeals process so stressful and honestly wouldn't know where I'd be without the help and support from here.

The LA have said that if I amend sections b and f the school would need to be reconsulted and the place could be lost (it's a very small oversubscribed school).

I don't understand why they've secured this space with the ehcp when the sections b and f under the appeal.

There's a few sentences missing from a report and a section under the wrong outcome. It's all a bit of a mess...

I don't know what's right to do 😓

The school would be reconsulted. However, unless it is a wholly independent school, you don’t need an offer of a place. For schools that are not wholly independent, the school being oversubscribed isn’t a barrier to it being named. ‘Full’ isn’t defined in law and, on its own, being ‘full’ is not enough of a reason. The LA has to prove the school is so full placing DC there would be incompatible with the provision of efficient education for others or efficient use of resources. The bar to prove this is higher than LAs and many schools admit. It has to be something tangible and specific and is more than an “adverse effect”, “impact on” or “prejudicial to”.

Sometimes LAs settle I to encourage parents to settle B&F. Sometimes they settle because the original reason to refuse was to see if the parents would appeal and when they do, they agree to the school.

Some parents decide they have got this far, so they might as well continue with the appeal. Others think they have the school place, so they will settle the appeal and work on improving the EHCP at a later date, especially if it is only a few sentences. How much those few sentences are required? Are you sure it is only a few sentences? As long as the required provision is in F, don’t worry too much about the wording being under the wrong outcome much.

Just checking in with a related question.

My DC EHCNA is delayed. I’ve chased it as I know it’s related to ed psyc backlog but they haven’t lined up any other apts and it has been 4 months since decision to assess.

Alongside this we’ve seen a decline in health and impact to attendance. DC is year 10. We’ve had a sec 19 push back. Something about getting the school to make provision. School are also pushing back as duty is on LA. We have a meeting of minds on this.

In the meantime trying to safety-net health and education with both on the decline whilst poking LA.

LA keep kicking can down the road looking for every possible excuse not to give interim provision.

I am looking at SOSSEN now, and I am being very direct with LA and meticulously documenting everything. Sounds like there’s just no resources???

Any advice welcome. I don’t mind going down the legal route but I am spread thinly with all of this, I don’t want to waste my efforts if LA are ignoring legal letters even if I manage to get one to them (I hear this is happening) do I have any other leverage?

As LAs have been shown time and again, lack of staffing and resources are not lawful excuses for breaching the timescales.

You need a pre-action letter covering both s19 provison and the breach of timescales. If the LA ignore the pre-action letter, JR proceedings will resolve the situation.

Okay would you please indicate the best way to kick this off? I heard sossen had a backlog. I’ve checked out their website. I’ve not had the energy to get further than that as we have a lot of medical apts right now. Would you say this is the best place to start, or can I write my own?

Unless you know what you are doing, you should not write your own. Even if you write your own, some LAs will ignore because they know you will need to find someone with capacity to take your case. I can write my own. I don’t because my LA laughs and says good luck.

I would find a firm with a legal aid contract who has capacity to take your case for a pre-action letter. The pre-action letter would be in your name, so legal aid is only possible if you are eligible for legal aid, but some LAs are sometimes ignoring pre-action letters that aren’t written by firms with legal aid contracts because they know if they ignore parents will still have to find a firm with capacity to take the case further. It kicks the can down the road. JR proceedings themselves are in DC’s name so they can be eligible for legal aid in their own right. It is a matter of perseverance. You could try Lawstop, Simpson Millar or Leigh Day. Even if they say no capacity today it doesn’t mean there won’t be by the end of the week.

Okay. Got it thank you. A clinician has suggested going to the MP and they have given me the number of a senior person brought in to sort out county SEN provision. I think they are cross too!!! Would this help at all? Or straight in with the solicitors?

It depends on your MP. Many MPs are useless with SEN issues. No reason you can’t contact them whilst trying to find someone with the capacity to take on the case for a pre-action letter. It can take perseverance to find someone. There will be an upcoming spike in people looking too when LAs miss the post 16 phase transfer deadline tomorrow.

I think legal action is the only thing the LEA would listen to but we don't qualify for legal aid so would have to fund ourselves, this isn't really an option as we've already had to cut working hours and pay for tuition and mental health support because the LEA are refusing to fund anything.

@narrowrailroad in case you aren’t aware, you would need to fund the pre-action letter, but JR proceedings themselves would be in DC’s name, so DC can be eligible for legal aid in their own right. I appreciate the pre-action letter may still be out of reach; if that is the case, have you spoken to SOSSEN?

Morning All, I have finally received an updated working document from the LA as tribunal date is in a few weeks. In responding to, and updating, the working document, should I remove proposed amendments that have been rejected, but alternative options have been agreed? The document makes little sense with them in as it looks as though I have asked for amendments that have already been covered! eg i have asked for X to be added. the LA said no. I then asked for Y. the LA said yes. Do I remove X from the working document as I no longer want it?

I am also unimpressed by the response to queries about needs which have no provision attached. The WD notes simply say either "what provision do you want?" or "the Clinical Lead is not sure what to recommend. Do you have any suggestions". I am not sure how to respond to these - if they had done the assessment needed, they would have the answers.

Can anyone talk me through what happens at the tribunal - I have no witnesses, the LA has no witnesses that I am aware of. Presumably I say why I think they are wrong and they say why they think they are right?

Another question - there are identified needs around taking care of herself relating to autism eg if she is ill or injured. The LA say these are not a school issue but should be managed by parents outside of school. Except that there should be strategies for if she is ill or injured when at school. Would these go in section F or G? or are they not detailed in the EHCP but in a separate healthcare plan?

You can remove any of the amendments you have previously proposed that you are no longer proposing. If you are still proposing the amendments, leave them in. So if you previously proposed X but you are no longer proposing X, you can remove it. But if you are still pursuing it, don’t remove it. You cannot remove any amendments the LA is proposing.

There isn’t one set format to hearings. Different judges prefer slightly different structures to the hearing. For example, some will give the opportunity to make an opening statement, but not all do all the time. It can help to have something prepared. At least a few bullet points. This is the opportunity to let everyone know about DD, bring her to life rather than just a name. Some like to show a photograph of DC if DC isn’t attending for some of the hearing. Some panels will ask questions about DC.

It can help to have a summary of the outstanding disputed content in bullet points or a table, including references to the evidence and their place in the bundle. Many will just cover the outstanding disputed content rather than work their way through the whole WD, but some will go through the WD.

Sometimes you and the LA will be asked to go away to work on the disputed content, then reconvene later.

You and the LA will both get chance to present your case. The panel may have questions. If you want anything repeating or clarifying, don’t be scared to ask. Similarly, if you need a break, ask. Even if the LA plays dirty on the day, don’t rise to it. You don’t need to stoop to their level and you don’t want to get the panel’s backs up. Even if the judge doesn’t say anything, they will see it. Don’t interrupt even if the LA does.

Have a closing statement ready. This is usually more formal than the opening statement. It is a chance to up your position, case law, etc. As the hearing progresses, in response to what the LA raises, add notes to what you prepare in advance.

Before the hearing, the best thing you can do to prepare is to make sure the bundle in correct. Familiarise yourself with it so you know your way around the bundle. Whatever works for you - annotation/bookmark/sticky tabs/your own index/colour code/your own summary document/screenshots. Work out whether you find an electronic or paper bundle easier to work with.

Any health care provision that educates or trains goes in F. Self-care skills also fall under PfA. An individual healthcare plan would detail more specifics of how to handle medical conditions beyond what would be included in F. For example, an IHCP would cover precisely how to handle an anaphylactic reaction e.g. calling 999 and what to say, EpiPen, inhaler, antihistamines, prednisolone, etc. F of the EHCP wouldn’t go into that much detail but for example could include learning to understanding triggers and staying safe.

Amendments will be based on evidence. If you don’t have independent evidence to base amendments on and the LA isn’t being co-operative, have you asked SENDIST to direct the LA to seek advice and information about those points?

Despite winning a place at a lovely SS last summer and really trying to make it work, my Y10 DS is not able to attend. He tried in Jan/Feb but is really not able to engage despite the school offering varoius support, online provision, etc.We've not asked for s19 AP because he won't be able to engage (does some self-led learning and lots of reading and art at home but does not want any tutors, online lessons, therapeutic interventions, etc). I think he's still in burnout and just needs more time.

So... we have AR scheduled for mid-June. My instinct is to spend the next two months trying to figure out what we want to propose as next steps. Probably EOTIS with very child-led provisions. He is very bright and academically capable when he's able to engage. He says he'd prefer no online lessons -- just work to do on his own, but he needs some structure. He would also benefit from some mental health support and OT, but again, can't engage and doesn't see the point in talking to people he doesn't know. (We've had some truly awful experiences with CAMHS and various services, which turned him off compeltely.) He doesn't get out much and only socialises with one friend from his old school.

It's so sad. The school we have has so much to offer but DS has now missed most of Y9 in MS and most of Y10 in this SS and I don't see a point of dragging our heals through Y11 and hoping for maybe a few GCSEs only to find he's not able to sit them and another year will be gone and the LA will try to withdraw the Plan. I'd rather we arrange for hm to independently do GCSEs or whatever (I don't see exams as the only path to success and fulfillment) at his own pace over the next few years (if that's what it takes). But I want to be prepared at the AR. Any suggestions for suitable provision or other steps we can take or planning we can do? Thanks.

That sounds really tough @SpaceInvader321.

To what extent do you share your ideas and plans with DS?

He sounds bright and capable and as though he potentially could get some GCSEs including Maths and English, which would keep options open. GCSEs are not that difficult for bright self-motivated students (I do teach GCSE although my specialism is A-level - most of my time is taken up by students who aren't capable/motivated...)

Exam entries have to be made earlier, but can be withdrawn right up to a date in April (at least from a school point of view - not sure if it's different for private candidates).

Do you think it's worth working back from that with a view that he could feel up to it in 6 months or so, and then you wouldn't have to pay the entry fees?

@SpaceInvader321 I would request an early review now rather than waiting for the AR. Many have to appeal for EOTAS/EOTIS, especially for a proper package. You don’t want to delay.

For EOTIS/EOTAS, evidence is vital. You need evidence it is inappropriate for provision to be made in a school.

Preparation is the key to ARs, especially if you will be pursuing EOTAS/EOTIS. Make sure all the required advice and information is circulated before the AR meeting, and that it is accurate. Reports should cover needs, recommendations for ongoing provision (including the strategies and approaches that work and what doesn’t work so that it’s clear what kind of provisions continue to be required), and outcomes. As well as including progress, they should link progress to the nature of the provision. Good advice and information prior to the AR will help you demonstrate EOTAS/EOTIS is required. Then, once you have the updated advice and information, go through the current EHCP. Know what amendments need proposing and reference evidence to support the amendments. Don’t forget to look at PfA.

It can help to make a table with needs, provision, provider/hours/cost, outcome.

It is worth delving into what DS means by ‘no online lessons’. Does he mean no online provision at all? Or does he mean no academic online lessons but non-academic online provision is OK? And/or does he mean no live lessons but other online provision is OK?

EOTAS/EOTIS packages are completely bespoke. Packages are tailored to the individual child and the possibilities are endless. There is so much to a comprehensive EOTAS/EOTIS package. Don’t just look at what is required now. Too many only look at the immediate, then regret it later down the line. You need to consider what will be required, e.g. 10 months after finalising the EHCP. You don’t want to need something but not be able to get it straight away because an early review is needed and maybe an appeal.

For example:

• Academics - This does not have to be traditional tuition, traditional academics or formal provision. It can be completely self-led provision. GCSEs/IGCSE and/or other qualifications can be part of EOTAS/EOTIS packages, including home invigilation if necessary. They can be done later than Y11 too, if suitable/necessary. Don’t worry about that.
• Therapies - e.g. SALT, OT, SIOT, rebound therapy, hydrotherapy, music therapy, animal-assisted therapy, hippotherapy, drama therapy, physio, CBT… Even if DS can’t engage directly with therapists at the moment, SALT, OT and CP input is vital to an EOTIS package. It isn’t just about working towards direct provision. It is about all the indirect provision those professionals need to provide. Has DS tried therapeutic input that relies less on verbal communication?
• Music/cooking/drama/singing/art/coding/pottery/sewing… lessons. If DS meant no online academic lessons but other online provision would be OK to try, then these could be online. They don’t have to be live. For example, for art, Badibidu has some live sessions but also some pre-recorded content. You don’t have to be in Sheffield where they are based. If DS wants to work towards a qualification with pre-recorded content, Technology Triumphs has some art courses. There are providers, e.g. CreatED who offer online art GCSE if DS just meant no online academics.
• Mentoring - F2F, online or both. I think you said previously DS has engaged in MindJam? That could be part of a package.
• Alternative provision settings - there is a huge range of these from more academic ones to gaming ones, forest schools, care farms, outwards bounds, sports, art and so many more. Some run online as well as in person. If DS enjoys MindJam and didn’t mean no online provision at all, you could look at Player Ready, Enemy of Boredom, Tubers Academy, Game Changers. Overworld is based in Surrey, but they can sometimes offer online provision.
• Sport/exercise - e.g. climbing, swimming, surfing, skiing, football, dance, horse riding, personal trainer…
• Equipment - e.g. technology, software and assistive tech. Sensory equipment. Gym equipment, desk, chairs…
• Subscriptions/memberships - this can be anything from subscription boxes for books/Lego/sciences/technology/art/gardening/cooking/sweets to things like spectrum space boxes (these are bespoke to the individual and work well for DC who struggle to engage) and LCB Education boxes to magazine subscriptions, membership to the gym/trampolining/National Trust/Nintendo online…
• A budget for resources/sundries - DS could use these to buy, e.g. art resources.
• Budget for activities and accessing the community - even if DS can’t cope with this now, it should be included in the EHCP to work towards.
• Not forgetting professional time - e.g. staffing, for planning, report writing/updated advice and information, preparing for and attending MDTs and ARs, leading and co-ordinating the package, liaising with other professionals, EP time… This is an often overlooked part of the package but an essential part.
• Travel - for DS to attend activities and for professionals to travel.

@Needlenardlenoo To what extent do you share your ideas and plans with DS?

We talk about options a lot and what he feels able to do. He usually says he "might" be able to do studies / exams "someday" but he doesn't know when, just not now. He says he likes the idea of school, but the actuality of going is too draining. He's ASD w PDA profile (although he denies the PDA), ADHD, body/gender dysphoric and has high anxiety, esp social anxiety. The gender identity issues take a massive amount of headspace and energy.

@KeepItSpinning Thanks for all the provision suggestions. We originally asked for an early AR in Dec and the earliest the school could arrange was end of Feb. But DS started attending pretty well in Jan and Feb, so we agreed to postpone it, hoping that things were going to keep improving. When he started struggling to attend again, I asked if anything earlier than June was available and they said no. I checked IPSEA and there doesn't seem to be deadline by which the LA has to respond to an early AR request. At this point, I doubt they'd bring it forward that signficantly.

You're right that DS has MindJam in his EHCP. Unfortunately, he hasn't used it. He tried a couple of different mentors and didn't feel it was working. It was only funded through the spring term, so the LA wouldn't cover it now even if he wanted to start. (We would self-fund if he wanted it.)

Re evidence, do you think we need to go back to our independent EP and ask her to do an updated assessment, if she has availability? Because DS hasn't been able to access any interventions or support, we don't have any new evidence -- other than attendance reports showing DS is not going. No one has ever discussed PfA with us.

The provision list is so helpful. But I know if I show it to DS and ask him to choose what he thinks he can do now, he'll probably say nothing. Academically, he was always a top student but anything remotely social, whether in person or live online, academic or therapeutic or fun, gets a firm no. There's an online youth support group I've been encouraging him to join (he could keep his mic and video off and just listen, and I've offered to sit with him if it helps) and even that gets a no.

He'll sometimes watch pre-recorded maths videos online and do some worksheets, but not in any regular, structured way. He also watches art videos and his drawing skills have really developed a lot in the past year. He's said that he could probably study for his GCSEs on his own and do them now/next year but just knowing that he's got a place at the SS and isn't using it creates a real barrier in his head.

We can try to guess whether he might, in 6 months or a year, be able to do more. But we just don't know. Do I just make the EOTIS proposal with the best case scenario in mind? Ie, academic classes, therapies, activities, etc? Not sure how I'll evidence any of it.

If the LA were to refuse EOTIS, could they, at the same time, take the (fully independent) SS away and leave us with nothing? There is no other appropriate setting nearby. If DS can't cope at our current school, which really understands neurodivergence and trauma, there's really no physical school where he will be able to cope. DH has suggested that maybe DS should stay at the school and we try to get them to enrol him in an online provision that they've used with some other kids, but I'm not sure the school would want that to be a permanent arrangement.

I think your DH's suggestion has some merit and is worth exploring. There's not that much left of the school year.

Is there anything you might be able to bribe DS with to have a third go at MindJam?

@Needlenardlenoo Alas, this child is completely unbribe-able.

Oh dear!!!

That's the only thing that gets me through with DD.

I know it's not a laughing matter but it's very PDA to be sure you're not PDA.

The art sounds positive. Would he consider art lessons? Just alongside the artist rather than tuition?

@SpaceInvader321 have you spoken to Dan about finding the right mentor?

I wouldn’t expect DS to be able to choose from my list. Far too overwhelming.

It may be that he needs the flexibility to decide day-to-day, hour-to-hour what to do. It is possible to have that and still have a good EHCP.

If you are pursuing EOTIS, you will at some point need updated evidence. It may be that a whole new report is required given the chance of circumstances or it may be that an addendum will suffice if the EP is willing to do that. The content of the EHCP is based on evidence. Your proposals would need to be based on evidence, but yes should be what DS may be able to do in, say, 10 months rather than what he can only definitely do now.

It is possible the LA will refuse EOTIS but name another placement/type of placement. They couldn’t just leave you with nothing, though.

My worry with staying on the school’s roll would be the school giving notice. If that happened, you would have less time and more pressure when going through the process of amending the EHCP, and you would potentially have to wait for an appeal hearing still. Starting the ball rolling already means you get in the appeal queue. If DS isn’t to attend the school, legally, it should be named.

I just wanted to update @KeepItSpinning that we have heard back today that funding has been agreed. Still don't have anything in writing but the LA Officer says she is going to issue the documents ASAP after the Easter break. Phew. (I hope)