EHCP support thread no. 5

[Needlenardlenoo]

Another thread is nearly filled so here is a new one for when we need it. I am the original OP but have name-changed due to admin (let's call it spring cleaning). We got our EHCP finally in June last year and are in a state of cautious optimism two terms into the year 7 transition. There has been no contact from the LA at all to us, but perhaps no news is good news, sometimes. The next challenge is going to be the annual review. I am feeling a bit paranoid the LA might try a cease to maintain. Anyway, onwards and upwards and best wishes to all!

Here are links to previous threads:
EHCP support thread - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4834986-ehcp-support-thread
EHCP support thread no. 2 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4989146-ehcp-support-thread-no-2
EHCP support thread no. 3 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5077140-ehcp-support-thread-no-3
EHCP support thread no. 4 -
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5197351-ehcp-support-thread-no-4

Thank you for the new thread.

I'm in a bit of a hiatus now, amendments asked for, the LA (KCC) said dome ridiculous things at the meeting, like not knowing that there needed to be preparation for adulthood, basically said that she has been to old that only the language 'individualised' is allowed, not 1:1, at one point I put my foot down over counselling being 'devised by a qualified teacher and delivered by a TA'....she seemed to agree it wasnt right but it was all 'well I'm told I'm not allowed to write anything different, if I do it'll just get changed'....but agreed some amendments and agreed to ask the ep for clarification and to add some provisions for PfA, of which there were none, also is going to now add a health section...

I made it very clear that whilst in an ideal world I would love to find the right placement for DD, this isn't going to happen and it would be a massive waste of time and money to name any school. I've emailed to say the same and to formally request eotas.

Not much more I can do now, except wait till they consult schools, and ask which ones I think? Then I'll try contacting them myself. They need to understand she's not going to go!

I just want the final EHCP now so I can start appeal.
Also got a meeting on the 22nd to ask again for AP. Going to email the director of children's services this week to ask that someone with decision making ability is there and to explain they are not doing what they should be. Not much else I can do really. I've a feeling they'll just say well let's wait for the EHCP. The deadline for that is the 21st, but no doubt there will be delays.

I was on the IPSEA website yesterday and I noticed they offer (very reasonably priced) seminars for LA staff on how to make EHCP decisions lawfully.

It is a ridiculous world we live in.

I am a reader of this thread and I am constantly astounded by the posts and the amazing replies. You are all so knowledgeable and giving great support.💐

But it shouldn't be like this should it it's a diabolical disgrace.💩

No it shouldn't! And the people I worry about are the ones who aren't in a position to seek support nor to fully understand it if they get it.

@Needlenardlenoo it is unlikely the LA would propose to cease maintain an EHCP for a secondary aged child after one year. In the highly unlikely event they do issue a cease to maintain notice, you will be able to appeal (and should appeal B&F too) and the EHCP must be maintained until the conclusion of the appeal.

@Icantpeopleanymore in your email did you summarise what was said in the meeting about the other points too? If not, email again so you have a paper trail as evidence.

Thanks @thatsnotmygardenand I hope you're right!

Hello and thank you for the shiny new thread.

We are now about a month from DC's hearings.

The LA is proposing an ASD unit attached to a MS school, where the kids would take most/all lessons in MS classrooms with a TA. I genuinely don't think this will work for either child. The unit itself is nice and the head of the unit seems attuned, knowledgeable and kind, but DC have not been in school since December and are still in autistic burnout. They are adamant that they won't return to a MS setting or a school with "a lot of other people".

We have EP reports that state they need "a small school and small classes" with a "maximum class size of 10 and a teacher:student ratio of at least 3:1". The reports also talk about the impact of masking on DC's mental health and their fatigue, and that being in a MS setting would exacerbate these issues.

There's currently one child in the unit who doesn't take any MS lessons due to anxiety but DC being confined to the unit all day every day doesn't seem ideal. The head said they wouldn't even want to let kids from the unit onto the main playground without a TA, which I know my DC would hate.

Travelwise, it's nearly an hour by public transport (multiple buses and walking) and just that journey would exhaust them every day and they would also find it really challenging for sensory reasons.

I couldn't get DC out of the house to go visit the unit, though I really did try.

Is this enough to show that the LA's preference is unsuitable?

Our preference is a small, wholly independent ND-focused school less than 10 mins from home. The kids did trial days there, came home happy and have offers.

I think you'd better hold out for what you want @SpaceInvader321

@thatsnotmygarden good point, I will do. I also had someone with me, he was so angry at what she'd said but did say, we will get the amendments and then get onto the issues with what they said at the meeting, that essentially the caseworker was being told by her supervisor to ignore the law! I'd rather get the final now and deal with that later. She also said they had never commissioned a SALT report based off of the recommendations in an ep report, ever. Absolute bollocks! I said it's clear that there is a need, school haven't ever explored that and I've hit a brick wall when ever I have requested it through the NHS...but apparently it's not what they do.
I am considering getting my own for appeal, alfo OT, but I'm also wary as DD hates anything connected to her neurodivergence. She won't engage and she doesn't want it.

I'm very pragmatic about it, DD is in year 10. I'll keep on fighting but I'm not going to let it take more from me than I can give. I was exhausted after the last two weeks, with EHCP stuff and work, I've been on half term since Friday and unlike me, as I'm a night owl and used to doing very long days, I've been falling asleep on the sofa at 8pm. It's taken its toll. If I can't get what she needs, I'll just pay for what I can for the next year or so and hope to get her a good place at a college or something after that. I'm not putting her through trying schools and it failing.

@Needlenardlenoo when the advice and information is circulated before the AR meeting, make sure it is complete and accurate. If it is, there would be no lawful reason to cease to maintain because the evidence will show it is still necessary to maintain the EHCP.

@SpaceInvader321 obviously without seeing all the evidence it is impossible to say for certain, but from what you have written, your case appears strong.

One thing you could do if you don’t already have it is to gather evidence DC is unable to cope with travelling. The maximum recommended travel time for secondary pupils is generally considered to be 1hr15. If that isn’t appropriate by any means (the LA can provide transport rather than travelling via public transport) it will help to have evidence of that.

Thanks@thatsnotmygarden- I'll get onto that after the Easter holidays. And I can make my own notes now of what I believe she's received.

I did say to the SENCO a while back that they probably should have guidance for teacher parents and doubly so for SEND - but there is none.

@thatsnotmygarden That's good to hear about our case seeming strong (caveat noted). I'll think about how to document the travel difficulties. One EP report mentions that DS struggles due to sensory. Both DC are just so exhausted and burnt out right now they barely want to leave the house and even a short excursion (walk to the park or short drive) seems to set them back The EP reports document that the school day is so tiring for them that they're unable to engage in other activities outside of school. A long commute would just make it worse. I don't know if LA transport would be shorter or if it might be longer if other children had to be picked up along the way.

In terms of the setting within a MS even the head of the unit seemed to recognise that DC might struggle to get through the building to the unit.

It just seems like a lot of opportunities for things to backfire if this setting is named.

Thanks for the encouragement @Needlenardlenoo. We're trying to stay strong!

@Icantpeopleanymore sorry, X-posted and I didn’t realise.

essentially the caseworker was being told by her supervisor to ignore the law!

This is commonplace. LA staff are schooled in LA policy which is often unlawful.

She also said they had never commissioned a SALT report based off of the recommendations in an ep report, ever. Absolute bollocks!

You are right, this is not true.

X-posted again.

even the head of the unit seemed to recognise that DC might struggle to get through the building to the unit.

@SpaceInvader321, do you have this in writing?

Transport has to be appropriate and non-stressful. That means if individual transport is required, that is what needs to be provided.

I have seen travel difficulties documented by a range of professionals - EP, OT, CP, psychiatrist, CAMHS nurse, social worker, GP, previous school… do any of them apply to you?

@thatsnotmygarden No, the unit head just said this when DH and I visited last week and told her more about the state DC are in. (She based her consultation responses on the existing EHCPs without any view of the current situation with EBSA, burnout, etc). She also commented that it sounded like they both need time "to recover from the damage that's already been done" (ie, in previous MS settings). But she didn't put this in writing.

DC1 is having a psychiatry assessment soon but it might be too close to the HD for additional evidence to be submitted. DC2 is seeing a camhs nurse for titration; I could maybe ask them to document the travel issues. I'll think some more. Thanks for the tips.

@SpaceInvader321 follow up your visit with an email to the head of the unit to create the paper trail. If you have the report before the hearing, you can still request it is admitted.

Hi, I have just received a draft ehcp for my dc who is 5. I have read alot and was all ready to print off a few copies and work through it, marking changes, noting missing things etc. But once it has come through, it has thrown me as there is nothing to work on really. It offers less than what his school is currently providing. I have completely lost confidence and dont know where to start, is there a basic step by step guide somewhere, or a tick list i can work through?

It has also landed on the school holidays, so I am unable to meet up with his teacher or the school senco for advice, to make sure I get everything in.
So I rang a solicitor to see if they could do it, who was highly recommended on this thread but she is busy for weeks, she did say I should request an extension.

I asked the LA twice for an extension explaining the situation, they have refused and have said, basically it will be finalised before the end of the holidays and if there are 'any changes to be made following my discussion with school, an amended EHCP can be sent out if any information needs to be amended'

From what I have read, I really don't think they will be issuing an amendment to a finalised EHCP a week later and she is just pulling the wool over my eyes. Unless I have missed something and am incorrect?! I would rather more time and the best it can be at finalisation.
Am I able to get an extension any way?

Thank you !

Go through all the reports with highlighters.

Highlight all DS’s special educational needs in one colour and then all the provision to meet the needs in another colour. Each need should have corresponding provision.

Then go through the draft and make sure all the highlighted needs are in B and the highlighted provision is in F.

Make a note of anything the LA has omitted from the draft, any needs without corresponding provision, any woolly and vague wording, anything the reports have failed to include, and any reports the LA has failed to include.

When you go through F, look out for vague and woolly wording. For example, “access to”, “would benefit from”, “regular”, “up to”, “or equivalent”, “opportunities for”, “as appropriate”, “would be useful/helpful”, “such as”, “e.g.”, “etc.”, “as required”, “as advised”, “key adult(s)”, “small group”. Provision must be detailed, specified and quantified, otherwise the EHCP isn’t worth the paper it is written on and cannot be enforced.

When (it is a matter of when, not if) you find vague and woolly wording, check the reports to see if they are woolly and vague or whether the LA has watered down provision. If the reports are vague and woolly, ask the LA to go back to the report writers to make the reports detailed, specified and quantified. If the LA has watered down provision, request the LA stick to the wording in the reports.

Also make sure any health or social care provision that educates or trains is in F. For example, LAs like to put things like SALT, OT, physio, etc. in G (health care provision) when it belongs in F.

Be careful taking advice from the school on the quality of the draft.

Remind the LA the state at least 15 days. It is a minimum. Not a maximum.

The LA can in theory amend following finalising. Although they would have to follow the proper process. However, if the EHCP is finalised without making amendments required, you should appeal. Don’t rely on the LA amending.

SOSSEN offer a draft checking service if that is something you are interested in.

Thank you for that I will start working through it with my husband tonight. I won't be able to look at it any other time as they have timed it perfect for the holidays as I will be looking after my son all day, every day, we will not get a chance to look at it until around 8 when hes in bed on night times. I would have had a better chance if he was in school during the week.
I will also email about the minimum 15 days, but they seem determined, 'the school must get the funding on that day' I didn't realise they cared that much lol.

It is completely woolly, they've offered lego therapy, thats about it, sensory equipment available, headphones etc
I have a private EP report that says he will need 1 to 1 at all times otherwise he will never learn, the school say he needs 1 to 1 including play times for the safety of himself and others. They currently give him 1 to 1. The LA states they suggest small group learning!

He also gets OT privately from us, that assessment put him 2 years behind for all gross, fine motor skills.
So I guess I have my first two points to start on.

With the reports we have, I expected it to be a little better than it was, not expecting much, but a bit better. What a horrific process!

My pp should have said “remind the LA the Regs state…” Missed the important word in that sentence.

Obviously you haven’t quoted the evidence word for word, but if the evidence says ‘needs 1:1’ that doesn’t mean DS will receive 1:1.

Yeah, thanks for reminding me of that, I did hear 1 to 1 doesn't always mean that so I need to remember that. He currently gets that as if he's in a group of 2 or 3, he just leaves the group and does off. Won't sit still or keep focused. I also know he would disrupt the other child's learning as he does now, (takes over and talks for 15 minutes, and has to finish and shouts over everyone if he can't finish) Learning us then stopped for the other kids.
The school have said if they get LAs help they could get a new teaching assistant and do a 2 to 1 with another student.

It all just a foreign language to me. Need to get my serious thinking head on :-)

If 1:1 is detailed, specified and quantified then it definitely means 1:1. But you need to make sure it is detailed, specified and quantified without woolly and vague wording.

If DS struggles in groups and your evidence shows 1:1, I wouldn’t accept 1:2.

Private Ed Psych 'need a high level 9f individual and small group support. Need individual support in order to gain his attention and focus him on early learning activities. Will need individual support to explain what he needs to do. Will also need individual ongoing ongoing support in order to keep him focused and on task. Without this high-level of support, will struggle to make any sustained progress'

Not quoted as 1 to1, but he said it in a phone call. Without that is this wooly

Unfortunately, unless further detail is provided, that is too vague and woolly. For example, ‘need’ doesn’t mean will receive, what is ‘a high level’, what is a ‘small group’, what ‘support’ and how long for…

You should go back to the EP and request they make their report detailed, specified and quantified.

Yes we've just agreed after reading it, there were holes. If we can get 2 to 1 for now then, that would be generous considering. If we can.