EHCP support thread no. 6

[Needlenardlenoo]

This thread is to support everyone engaged in the EHCP process. The purpose is two fold: so that you don't feel alone if you're involved with it, and so you can easily find posters who are experienced with the various difficulties to help point you in the right direction, whether that be by giving general advice, telling you specifically what action should, or could, be taken in a particular situation, or countering common myths you will hear, such as:

"Your child is not X enough to get an EHCP"
"The school has to do/pay Y first"
"EHCPs are only for Z situation"
"The local authority do X/say Y/won't do Z" (the SEN Code 2014 applies to the whole of England: it doesn't vary by local authority). [Wales and Scotland have different regimes].

It is particularly important at the moment to understand clearly what your child's rights actually are in law (not what the school or LA or Sendias say they are), when the government are actively trying to remove EHCPs and are leaking stories regularly to the media, with the intention, I suspect, of deflecting attention from their own shortcomings onto parents who are already in a difficult situation. If in doubt, the charity IPSEA has neutral and factual information:
https://www.ipsea.org.uk/

Here are links to previous threads:

Original EHCP support thread - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4834986-ehcp-support-thread
EHCP support thread no. 2 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4989146-ehcp-support-thread-no-2
EHCP support thread no. 3 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5077140-ehcp-support-thread-no-3
EHCP support thread no. 4 -
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5197351-ehcp-support-thread-no-4
EHCP support thread no. 5 -
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5309128-ehcp-support-thread-no-5?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=app_share [please post on here till it's full]

Hi all, a question about EHCNA and full cognitive testing. We are finally near the top of the queue for Ed Psych. Full cognitive testing won’t be offered.

I’m therefore wondering - would WISC-V be helpful given our situation. EHCNA won’t resource full cognitive testing and it has been advised by one of the clinicians in a detailed report a year ago.

Do we pay for it privately? Is it worth it? For a possibly G&T child prone to burnout (ASC dismissed by clinical psychologist) with background of physical health issues too impacting stamina.

@Lelivre I can't offer any informed advice about WISC-V but am interested that the ASC was dismissed by clin psych and was wondering whether your DC was assessed (in which case obviously accept that outcome) or that the clin psych decided there wasn't enough evidence to assess (and, do you agree?). I have three kids who are ASD and they all present as you describe your DC and "the system" (from the time they were in Y7 when I was flagging likely ASC, although I knew from when they were 5) said that they couldn't be because they are reasonably socially adept and (most importantly) were doing very well academically. In all three cases the wheels came off on the health front first (and one is now diagnosed with CFS). We eventually got them assessed privately. If you are going to pay for something privately and your DC hasn't been assessed I might choose to invest there.

@AprilFlowersMaythank you for the comment. I’ve gone back to this question so many times over the years, looking for an explanation. We also had an appointment with someone who assesses girls for ASC separate to the psychologist.

I think I am at a point where I agree she is not on the ASC spectrum, but I appreciate your comment and observations, thank you. There were times when I almost wished for this so we could understand, support and strategise, accordingly.

@Lelivre LA EP assessments are often poor. IMO a comprehensive assessment including full cognitive testing, not just WISC, is helpful. If you have evidence WISC in particular has been advised, I would go back to the LA and EP to point this out.

However, if you seek an independent EP assessment, you should look for someone who can write medico-legal standard reports in case you need to appeal. Unless you are lucky with a cancellation, which do crop up, you will not have a report by the time the LA need to decide whether to issue or not, especially at this time of year with phase transfer appeals. Unless money is no object, I would save your money in case you need to appeal. This is because you may decide the LA EP assessment will do, not brilliant but enough, and you need to target your money at e.g. OT or physio or SALT or…

@keepitspinningthanks for this! I will give it some thought. She is under paediatrics and she has just had another physio review and I’ve asked for another OT (physical health) this is outside of ehcna as I was sick of waiting and we are struggling so much with school and GCSE’s.

I would like a paediatrician to feed directly in on the physical side of symptom management and school (chronic issues), I have requested this but no one responded. I could ask her NHS paed but you know how stretched everyone is!

i also asked for SLT.

Please advise, whats the best way to nudge the LA when the EHCNA is about to progress (with ed psych)? They agreed to assess end of Nov and so they are perhaps in breach of timescales already.

I'm so upset and stressed. EHCP back and section F is repeated verbatim across all sections "(DS) will remain on roll at XXX School receiving flexi schooling which will be 12 hours of tuition delivered by (online tutor company) for the following subjects; English, Maths
and Science, and remainder of time at school, to be steadily built up to support Frederick."

This doesn't mention HOP at all which makes me think he will lose access to the mentor and in person club which is the way he is making progress at the moment and the only way he has social interaction. He can't make it into school AT ALL so all he has is 12 hours of tuition?

Please help me understand what I need to do next, this is going to have a devastating impact on DS and the progress he has made

They are essentially reducing the small amount of provision he is currently able to access. I'm so upset, almost a year of fighting to be in an even worse situation. He's being failed so badly

Also I've realised they have named both the online tutors and the school in section F which isn't right?

@Lelivre the LA is well over timescales. Email the Director of Children’s Services reminding them they are in breach and if they do not act, you will be forced to take matters further. If that doesn’t prompt action, you need a pre-action letter.

You are likely to still need physio and OT advice and information sought during the EHCNA. While all information/evidence should be considered, NHS physio and OT from normal appointments are unlikely to be sufficient because they rarely cover needs, provision and outcomes and are often not detailed, specified and quantified. So, whilst they can be considered, they will often mean the content of the EHCP is poor. So further advice and information from physio and OT is likely to be required.

Paeds can contribute. Someone with DD’s presentation needs their input into the NA.

As well as the DCS, I would email the DMO/DCO. ETA: sorry, DMO is Designated Medical Officer and DCO is Designated Medical Officer.

@LittlePickleHead you might want to report your post to MNHQ, you have left DS’s name in your posts.

You need to appeal. To do that, you first need to request a mediation certificate. The mediation company’s contact details should be in the letter from the LA. I wouldn’t bother with mediation, just get the certificate and submit to SENDIST.

Once you have the mediation certificate, submit that, the decision letter, the SEND35 form, the EHCP (and any appendices you have. Don’t worry if you don’t have them all, just submit what you have) and your evidence to SENDIST.

Consider what further evidence you need. Look at independent assessments. If you can’t afford these and you aren’t eligible for legal aid (or rather than legal help system for appeals), which can fund independent assessments if necessary, look at charity funding, e.g. Parents in Need.

I would submit SARs but not quite yet because I would want to capture data after you have submitted the appeal.

Alongside this, remind the LA DS is unable to attend school and ask the LA how they intend to ensure he receives a suitable full-time education.

Providers shouldn’t be named in F, but that is the least of the problems.

I have already followed up with the LA asking how they will ensure a 25 hour week education given he can’t access school and also asked for an urgent review given then have removed a vital layer of support that he was already receiving and has now been cut, that has been enabling him to access social support and leave the house. This is likely to have an immediate affect on his wellbeing.

any thoughts on the likelihood of getting an urgent review and the provision reinstated at this stage or do the you recommend starting the appeal process straight away?

any advice on what to do practically in the meantime, I’m incredibly worried about DS and gutted as he’s lost a lifeline. I’m going to monitor his wellbeing daily and keep a record, is there anything else I can do whilst the appeal is going through to access more support?

Oh and we have so many independent assessments that highlight the need for mentoring, 1:1 support to leave the hours etc so the evidence is there.
i can probably get more to show how well he was doing at HOP to further highlight the need for this approach.

is it worth attempting a plan with school to reintegrate so if it’s not working we have evidence of that as well?

While the LA has a duty under s19 of the Education Act 1996 to ensure DS receives a full-time education that is suitable to age, aptitude, ability and SEN, full time isn’t defined in law. It should offer a good quality education equivalent to that offered by MS as far as DS’s needs allow (i.e. it should be broad and balanced curriculum and not just core subject tuition and some cover DS’s pastoral, social and emotional needs) but if 1:1 it can be fewer hours.

For example, the LGO currently views a full-time education as 22-25hrs per week, depending on age. this is one of their reports stating so. Although if 1:1 it can be less because it is more concentrated. For example, this LGO case found 12.5 and 15 hours 1:1 not to be full time but 17.5 and 20 hours to be - there are many other such cases. So you are unlikely to get 25hrs 1:1a under section 19 provision. This is why appealing the EHCP is important.

I would submit an appeal ASAP. The LA is unlikely to agree to an early review when the EHCP has only just been finalised. Even if they do, it is unlikely to change the EHCP sufficiently. In the highly unlikely event the LA agrees to a review and make all the required amendments, they can concede the appeal.

My suggestion right now is to a) submit an appeal ASAP, b) start thinking about your evidence, and c) ask the LA how they intend to ensure DS receives a suitable full-time education in light of him being unable to attend school.

As to your last question, it isn’t possible to comment on whether attempting reintegration would be helpful to DS, but definitely speak to the school.

So I’ve found out more of what’s happened - it seems like the issue is panel decided to continue funding his current provision, the case worker speaking to the HOP manager about what this is.

the HOP manager only told the LA about the online learning but didn’t mention the mentoring, the social club, or the conversations we’d been having about increasing hours and moving to in person tutoring, hence the inadequate provision.

The case worker has actually come back and said if HOP confirm what he was receiving she’ll take it back to panel to see if it can be funded, HOP are saying the mentor service only work with HOP but they can continue to give DS access until their is a replacement. I don’t understand why the LA can’t just continue to fund the provision?

anyway the cliff edge has gone but I’m still aware that the communication from HOP has been poor which has mean even though the LA has said they are continuing current provision, it’s not actually taking into account the fact that this is designed to grow and iterate and that this is all done outside of school. I have gone back with this to the LA.

Not sure if that means holding off on the appeal or if I should still go ahead?

I would still appeal ASAP. Even if those few bits are added into F, it is still inadequate. Plus, if DS is to not attend the school, it should not be named in section I. Whatever you do, don’t let your right your right of appeal lapse. The it is a common tactic for LAs to say they will do XYZ then go back on their word, conveniently stringing parents along until after the right of appeal lapses.

Some providers only work with certain cohorts. Have you checked with the mentor service directly?

So neither SENCo will get back to me and our case worker refuses to answer the phone. My husband managed to get hold of them and apparently they opened the conversation with - "I've seen all the many emails you keep sending..." and effectively said they would name the school DS has been allocated via general admissions even if they say no in the consultation. Apparently kept speaking over him and as soon as he mentioned not following procedure, he said it was like a trigger phrase that went into full defence mood and the call was quite quickly ended after that. We have seen today that our second school which offered the place during regular admission, responded with - "The setting is unsuitable for the age, ability, aptitude or special educational needs of the child or young person". Going to wait to hear from the SENCOs but honestly feeling deflated. I already had little faith in the LA so back to the "many emails" and constant virtual nudges to the schools and LA. Thank you all for your advice these past few days though, it's been incredibly helpful.

How often are you sending emails? Be careful. You don’t want to be accused of sending malicious, vexatious &/or unreasonably persistent communications. Such allegations from LAs are becoming increasingly common and can escalate quickly. I am not saying you are being unreasonable or sending too many emails, but you do now need to be cautious about what and how many you send.

Morning all. It's overwhelming just reading about what others are going through. I take my hat off to so many of you who have been in this for so much longer than us.

We finally have our ed psych meeting for my DD's ECHNA next week. I have from this thread a list of things to think about and make notes on before I speak to them, which I'm very grateful for.

My DD is currently recovering slowly from autistic burnout. She has a tutor under s.19, who she is now able to engage with 4-5 hours a week. She currently can't do much more - but I don't know if this will still be true in 6 months, though I don't imagine she'll be able to access a classroom. She is in year 10.

I know we're probably an appeal/tribunal away from any actual EHCP but, ignoring that, she would like to continue with this same tutor until her GCSEs (assuming she does them next year). Is that the sort of thing that could be written into an EHCP? And I've just been reading the SEND code of practice and seen a mention of personal budgets. I'm wondering if a personal budget that would pay for additional 121 tuition (if she could at some point manage that) would be something to aim for? She really couldn't manage full time education at the moment but I know she has a right to it, which leaves me bamboozled...

I think we have sent a few - unfortunately because we didn't understand the process (offered a school place and then within days an EHCP draft sent - 20 days before they were due to issue the final plan) and whenever we called the LA for advice they always referred us to our case worker for advice (who would then never take the call or call us back). However we now have the final ehcp...2nd choice school named, gaps in section where needs are highlighted but no outcomes or provisions included, incorrect information and in one point, a different child named in the provision! All were flagged in our comments when we were issued the draft. I don't even know why we bothered with communication at all.

@Ratchet101 if you have the final EHCP, you can appeal.

Welcome @Peggyblue. As well as an EP assessment, has other the other advice and information that is required been sought?

Have a look at EOTAS/EOTIS. This is where it is inappropriate for provision to be made in a school or college.

EOTAS/EOTIS can include tuition, but it also includes so much more, including things like therapies, professional time (including for indirect provision even if DD can’t yet engage directly), resources/equipment/tech/a budget, other non-academic provision, etc.

What does DD enjoy doing? Or if she has dropped all interests, what did she previously enjoy doing? Other than the tuition, is DD managing anything (not just academics and not necessarily big things) else currently?

A personal budget can fund provision like tuition. A PB can be funded in different ways. The LA can commission provision directly, a third party can manage the money on the parents’ behalf, parents can have direct payments, or a mixture. Although I wouldn’t make PBs your focus now.

Agreed. Would people here advise mediation first or straight to appeal?Would be keen to hear experiences.

I wouldn’t bother with mediation, especially for a BFI appeal and the timescales involved in your case. Just get the certificate and submit to SENDIST ASAP.

Hello all,

I am feeling exhausted and worn down. Is there a hood idiots guide to mediation and tribunal? - I feel the ECHP issued by the LEA doesn’t meet my child’s needs, it’s very wooly and none specific and at times nomiates what other children should do.

I wouldn’t bother with mediation. Just get the certificate and submit to SENDIST.

IPSEA and SOSSEN’s websites are good places to start. Also the Noddy guide is a good basic guide to some of the legislation and case law.

We have our first AR meeting this week. Any suggestions or advice going into it?

DS (Y8) is doing pretty well in his SS setting, though we've been told he's been increasingly vocal about teachers and classes he doesn't like and has been asking for a lot of movement breaks. Overall, though, we think the school is working for him and don't think there are massive changes needed to his provision.

That said, is there anything we should be prepared for? AFAIK the LA will not be attending. Thanks.