EHCP support thread no. 6

[Needlenardlenoo]

This thread is to support everyone engaged in the EHCP process. The purpose is two fold: so that you don't feel alone if you're involved with it, and so you can easily find posters who are experienced with the various difficulties to help point you in the right direction, whether that be by giving general advice, telling you specifically what action should, or could, be taken in a particular situation, or countering common myths you will hear, such as:

"Your child is not X enough to get an EHCP"
"The school has to do/pay Y first"
"EHCPs are only for Z situation"
"The local authority do X/say Y/won't do Z" (the SEN Code 2014 applies to the whole of England: it doesn't vary by local authority). [Wales and Scotland have different regimes].

It is particularly important at the moment to understand clearly what your child's rights actually are in law (not what the school or LA or Sendias say they are), when the government are actively trying to remove EHCPs and are leaking stories regularly to the media, with the intention, I suspect, of deflecting attention from their own shortcomings onto parents who are already in a difficult situation. If in doubt, the charity IPSEA has neutral and factual information:
https://www.ipsea.org.uk/

Here are links to previous threads:

Original EHCP support thread - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4834986-ehcp-support-thread
EHCP support thread no. 2 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4989146-ehcp-support-thread-no-2
EHCP support thread no. 3 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5077140-ehcp-support-thread-no-3
EHCP support thread no. 4 -
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5197351-ehcp-support-thread-no-4
EHCP support thread no. 5 -
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5309128-ehcp-support-thread-no-5?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=app_share [please post on here till it's full]

@Leafywool that’s right. 20 weeks from the initial EHCNA request unless you had to appeal refusal to assess &/or refusal to issue.

To submit an appeal, you have 2 months from the decision letter or 1 month from the mediation certificate, whichever is later. I wouldn’t bother with mediation, particularly for a content appeal. I would just get the certificate and submit the appeal. At the moment, appeals that are non-expedited cases are taking over a year to get to a final hearing, I’m afraid. Because DD is not attending school, you would be able to request an expedited hearing. It isn’t guaranteed to be agreed, but if it is while there would still be a long wait, it would be a shorter wait than it otherwise would be.

Our LA is now two weeks late responding to DC's AR, in which the SS and EP recommended EOTAS.

When I chased the day after the deadlne, the LA said they hadn't received the paperwork -- although the school had submitted it on time via the LA's portal.

Then the LA said they couldn't open it.

Then they said it had been sent to the wrong LA email address.

Now they've notified us of a change in caseworker and that person has again requested the documents and said once reviewed they'll go to panel.

I've replied, pointed out that they are acting unlawfully, cc'd the Dir of Children's services and asked them to confirm the date they will send us the response. Do I need to threaten JR? I would so much rather spend the money on actual provision for my child who has not been in school for over a year. Are there low-cost services for a PAP? I'm not familiar with that process. Thanks.

@SpaceInvader321 rather than just cc’ing the DCS, try emailing directly. It doesn’t always work, but it is worth a try. Sometimes it will work and sometimes you won’t get a direct response, but it prompts action. Yes, tell them if they do not act, you will be forced to take further action. You could also try contacting the Monitoring Officer. SOSSEN do pre-action letter but there is a wait. I’m not sure you will be from your previous posts, but check if you are eligible for legal aid.

I'm trying really hard to stay sane.

We appealed LA's decision not to assess, and then heard back from the tribunal who said the LA were right to refuse an assessment because DDs needs are clear, and that the school are able to support her educational needs within "normal provision" despite the fact she is only able to attend for one hour a day and is doing three A'levels. (The school have been saying this situation is not acceptable and want to off-roll her.)

I submitted a request for permission to appeal the tribunal's decision by mail (as per form SEND 20a) on the 2nd June.

On the 3rd June I had a conversation with the school who revealed they had written to the LA in December to say they could not meet DD's needs. They have never said that clearly to me before. They said the LA had never acknowledged receipt, the school had not -cced me or told me of this letter's existence, and the LA did not include the letter in the tribunal pack. The school then shared the letter with me.

I sent another copy of the same 20a form, with the letter attached as additional evidence, on the 3rd June. Our deadline for a request for permission to appeal was the 4th June. I have evidence both submissions were received (track and trace).

I have subsequently spoken to SENDIASS who told me I should have used form 20b as there was a procedural error (which I didn't know about when I originally did form 20a). This is unhelpful advice because it is way past the deadline.

All of which to say: does anyone know how long it takes them to respond to a request for permission to appeal a tribunal decision? (And/or what happens next?)

I'm trying to negotiate with the school what we do for the rest of this term, but without any time boundaries it's really hard. (I'm also wondering whether we need to start again from the beginning, or if that is even allowed -- we started all of this in November ...).

Sigh. Thank you for any insight if any of you have some. I would like to say it makes me feel better to know that others are also fighting the system, but it just makes it feel worse for all of us. Fortitude and solidarity xxx

If this is a sixth form at a state school, they shouldn’t be off-rolling DD just because her health means she can’t attend full time.

Some people do choose to request another EHCNA rather than challenging the Tribunal’s decision. You can request another EHCNA now if you wish.

I think SENDIASS is slightly confused. SEND20A would be where you are asking for permission to appeal because you believe SENDIST erred in law. Sometimes appeals can still be made where there is a procedural error. Sometimes people complete a SEND20C then if that isn’t successful go on to complete a SEND20A, but it depends on the circumstances of the case. SEND20B would be for a change of circumstances rather than procedural error. SEND20C would be asking for the decision to be set aside (rather than appeal). This can be for procedural irregularities. It depends on what the document was as to whether this includes your circumstances. The LA not using certain evidence doesn’t always automatically make it a procedural error. But if, for example, the LA didn’t include a witness statement from the school, it can be. Did you check the bundle? Without knowing more/seeing the case, it is hard to say for certain, but from your post, I would have tried SEND20C first. Although even with SEND20A, SENDIST will review their decision anyway before granting permission.

Time is how long is a piece of string I’m afraid. To properly hear back on the application, a lot can be up to 10 weeks, although I know some longer, but you will hear before then with an acknowledgement.

I know the forms say to post or fax, but SENDIST accepts emails.

Just so you know, late applications can also be made. Although aren’t guaranteed to be accepted.

Did you submit SARs? If not, do that now. To the school, LA and any other service/agency/professional DD involved.

If DS is autistic, that is most likely his primary need is ASD. Not all LAs state the primary need in EHCPs. Focus on overall presentation rather than just primary need. There can be a huge scope in needs within a primary need and just because a school caters for a certain type of primary need doesn’t mean they are necessarily the right school for a child.

Ignore the last paragraph. It was meant for another thread. I thought I had pressed post on here, briefly looked away and then came back to MN and started typing thinking I had already swapped threads.

LOL. Thank you again @KeepItSpinning. Good shout re SARs -- if I had done that before I would have known about this missing letter.

Have chatted to the school and the SEND team at the LA and I'm just going to start again from the beginning with a new application. We originally started in August last year and since then we had the evidence of what was happening but no bullet proof diagnoses or professional reports, which I now have coming out of my ears. Starting again is the shorter route timewise. Really appreciate your help.

Hello after some advice, we have an EHCP got additional private EP report which states need for constant 1:1. Annual review meeting completed by school no response by LA, then officer advises process is to send private EP to their EP service and then meet with them and stated a date for this to happen. Date goes by with no update. I escalate via team manager who decides I will get a decision in a short timeframe, second send team member then issues amendment notice and draft plan removing a lot of the additional provision including need for 1:1 - refuses to provide any rationale, I ask for EP advice they have used - they claim no advice had been sought and they will do this after the parental consultation the issue final plan. Surely if they use any “advice” from EP service I should have access to that before the parental consultation otherwise it would be unlawful?

You can respond to the amendment notice with the amendments that are required. Reference the evidence, including the independent EP report, when you do this.

Some LAs sometimes do send reports parents submit to their professionals to sign off. It’s nonsense really. The LA should consider all evidence. LAs don’t need sign off.

Advice and information should be sought and circulated prior to the AR meeting. This is an often neglected part of the AR process unless there is time allocated in F of the EHCP for it, and even then LAs try to cut corners. Although, this advice and information is unlikely to be a full report from an EP.

After issuing the original draft and giving you at least 15 days to make representations, there is no further requirement for the LA to issue another draft if they aren't going to make any amendments or the amendments made are a result of your representations. (And to add the placement/type of placement.) However, if they propose to make other amendments, they should issue a revised draft. Based on Reg 14 and SENCOP 9.125.

Unfortunately some have to appeal to secure 1:1.

Thanks for the reply- the school had added in all the provision from the reports, I had added a few more before it went to the LA who have reluctantly kept some, watered down others and removed anything expensive but cannot tell me what process they have used to make those decisions, just what they feel like it seems, nothing evidence based, all consultations last year were negative 3 said this child blatantly needs 1:1 but they just won’t fund it the evidence is so strong it’s just nonsense.

Even though the school/you discussed what amendments were needed at the AR meeting and just afterwards and the report was sent to the LA, the LA must still issue a formal amendment notice/notice of amendment/draft and give you at least 15 days to comment on it. At that point, if the amendments you/the school told the LA were needed aren’t included in the proposed amendments from the LA, you can still comment to say they are required and reference your evidence.

Hi everyone. My DD is finally undergoing Needs Assessment (LA initially refused then caved just before tribunal). We had an EP this week come to the school and met with me for an hour before assessing her. In the meeting I just fell apart, didn't say half of the points I'd meant to say and just got emotional. I can't stop thinking I've messed everything up and missed the opportunity to really advocate for her properly. I do think our case as I've prepared it is strong and set out clearly in my but I'm just worried I didn't get the EP onside, her eyes were just glazing over in this meeting, she then watched my DD in a writing lesson and then did some 1:1 time with her but according to my DD they just drew a picture and chatted about what she did and didn't like at school. So she didn't really do a full assessment (we did have a private assessment by an independent EP done, does this sound like they won't be challenging that if they didn't carry out their own tests?) Appreciate any advice from anyone who has navigated this!

If you have the email addresses of the EP and feel there are things you didn’t say, you could email them.

It isn’t unusual for LAs to not undertake cognitive testing as part of their EP assessments. Lots of LA reports are poor, I’m afraid. It doesn’t mean they won’t prefer their own evidence over the EP report. The LA should consider all evidence. Unfortunately, LAs often ignore this or pay lip service to ‘considering’ some evidence. If you, the LA and the report writer agree the existing independent report is sufficient, the LA shouldn’t have sought another EP assessment. Sadly, LAs often say they don’t think it is sufficient so they can seek their own reports. Conveniently, these will be less detailed, specified and quantified and often cursory in nature.

Thanks for the reply, I guess you’re right about the LA experts. This is so gruelling, I feel like I’m just going through the motions of a process designed to undermine me and all our evidence about what DD needs and we just have to sit back and wait for the inevitable negative verdict which we will then have another awful process to go through challenging it. Also we are at end of y4 now so don’t have that much time before phase transfer :( does anyone know what happens if we do finally get the EHCP but we’ve missed the phase transfer period?

@Runningshoes99 if you don’t have a finalised EHCP by the normal secondary admissions deadline in October of Y6, you should make a normal application just in case. If an EHCP is subsequently finalised, the placement named in the EHCP will override any offer made via the normal admission process.

A refusal to issue isn’t a given. Although many have to appeal, not all do. You can look at statistics for your LA on the government’s website.

Woo hoo! Only 11 months after our first application for an EHCNA, we have been allocated a SEND worker and DD is going to be assessed! (I appreciate this is only the first hurdle, but still, it's the first hurdle). Am very grateful to @KeepItSpinning and the existence of this thread.

That's great news @AprilFlowersMay.

@AprilFlowersMay Hurrah!

Make sure you request the LA seeks advice and information from everyone required.

Hi, just to say that it sounds as though we were in a similar position, both with regards to the LA EP assessment and timings. We had a refusal to issue in July last year (end of year 4) - it felt like the EP had her own agenda and conclusions right from the start; she was very dismissive of any cognitive concerns (my DD has since been diagnosed with dyslexia and dysgraphia and her writing assessed as two years below despite a high IQ), used very pointed questions to get the answers she wanted, "didn't see" the private OT report so could minimise DD's significant sensory processing challenges... I could go on.

Anyway, we appealed in September, had a tribunal date scheduled for Dec 2027(!)... DD had a private EP assessment in April, got the report in May, then the LA conceded on receipt of this a day before they had to submit the evidence bundle.

Hi all, hope everyone is doing okay.

We (and the LA) received the approved Consent Order from SENDIST on 8 July, directing the LA to issue an EHCP (LA conceded our refusal to issue appeal).

Do I now wait for an EHCP caseworker from the LA to get in touch?

The reasons the LA conceded were comprehensive private EP and OT reports. The EP assessment done by the LA was very cursory and dismissive and so the majority (bar two I think) of her recommendations were what could be provided through ordinarily available provision. They also refused to seek advice from anyone else.

The private EP and OT report recommendations are very quantified and specific. How likely is it that this content will make it into the EHCP draft? Could they take some and not others? How successful are my chances at getting them to use them in their entirety (without going to appeal)?

Hi there. We had our annual review on the 8th July and requested a change of placement, ideally for September. Am I right in thinking that even though it will be school holidays we should still have a response from the LA (and thus the proposed school) within 4 weeks?

@CatBusStop you are right that the school holidays don’t change the AR timescales. However, the 4 weeks is for the LA to inform you if they propose to amend or not (and if they are going to amend to issue the amendment notice/notice of amendment/draft/whatever the LA/you want to call it at the same time). The 4 week deadline is not for them to finalise the placement. The LA has a further 8 weeks to finalise, so a max of 12 weeks from the AR meeting.

@Namechange857 yes, you wait for the draft now. I have never seen a draft that doesn’t need parents to propose amendments, so the likelihood you get a draft with everything that needs to be in there included and worded correctly. Yes, they could include some but not all. When LAs finalise, they sometimes agree to some or all of the amendments, but equally it isn’t unusual for them not to.

Thanks @KeepItSpinning - would you expect them to at least consult with the proposed school to inform their decision to amend?

As the draft amendments have to be sent with the decision notice

The AR process is:

1. Updated advice and information must be circulated at least 2 weeks prior to the AR meeting.
2. Then you have the AR meeting.
3. Within 2 weeks of the AR meeting, a report must be circulated.
4. Within 4 weeks of the AR meeting, the LA must inform you if they propose to amend or not. If they are, they must send the amendment notice/draft/notice of amendment/proposed amendments (whatever the LA/you want to call it) at the same time and you must be given at least 15 days to comment and state your preferred placement. Section I must be blank here.
5. Then if the LA is going to amend, they must finalise within 8 weeks of sending the proposed amendments, so max of 12 weeks from the AR meeting. This is when the placement is named in section I (in most cases, there are some cases where a placement/type of placement isn’t named in I - you don’t need to worry about that). They may or may not have agreed your proposed amendments and may or may not have named your preferred placement.

If the LA intends to amend they will send consultations out somewhere between 3 and 5. They don’t always wait until they formally inform you they propose to amend and they don’t always wait for your preference or comments on the proposed amendments. LAs don’t consult in order to decide whether to amend or not. EHCPs aren’t (or shouldn’t be even though LAs sometimes do) written to fit a specific placement.