EHCP support thread no. 4

[Phineyj]

We've nearly filled the thread again, so here's a new one. Welcome everyone: newcomers, people stuck in the process; battle-hardened veterans of many years...

Here are links to previous threads:

EHCP support thread - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4834986-ehcp-support-thread

EHCP support thread no. 2 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4989146-ehcp-support-thread-no-2

EHCP support thread no. 3 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5077140-ehcp-support-thread-no-3

@BrightYellowTrain Like a parent constantly renegotiating with a child....

It's crazy how formal the schedule and information are for them to just be ignored.

I guess there's nothing to be done? Is it worth informing SENDIST? (As you say, they won't do anything!)

You can inform SENDIST (although don’t do this at e.g. 12:05!) but they are mostly give the LA a further opportunity to comply and it is unlikely that will result in the LA being barred.

@BrightYellowTrain Thanks, will do. Might as well try and keep them on their toes.

(Obviously they haven't missed the deadline yet, just thinking ahead... And realistically by the sounds of things 😅).

Also, there's lots of talk about "We strive to work with parents to effectively resolve appeals, where possible. We will continuously review the appeal and communicate with you (or your appointed representative) to discuss the concerns raised in the appeal and any possible resolutions."

Presumably this is rarely done? Have not heard a single thing from them so far aside from a standard email acknowledging the appeal.

I've just had a catch up with SENDIASS and she is so struck by the utter balls up of our EHCP so far she's going to get her manager to raise it with the Director of Education in the hope of some sort of 'loosening' of the situation. I have no idea what form this conversation will take and have precisely no hopes of it succeeding but given how many stories of things gone wrong that she hears, ours is clearly up there. We are only waiting for mediation to fail before launching our formal complaint in tandem with the appeal - a small part of me hopes that mediation gives them a way out of all this that they grab at but I know that's unlikely. Still.

@Namechangeagain80 communication is patchy, but LAs sometimes concede.

@Leftoverssandwich I hope the LA pulls their finger out.

Had response from caseworker yesterday who has agreed to the EHCP I wrote as ‘how I think the final should look’. Including my tables and re-adding all the original speech provision recommendations.

It’s going to -hopefully - signed off by her manager this week.

Thanks @BrightYellowTrain - I ended up using the wording “Qualified or working towards qualified teaching assistant with specific SEN training in supporting children with attention, listening, language and social interaction - with support from class teacher.” - for ‘who will deliver’. Perhaps still woolly but better than it was.

And then I discussed with DP about meeting with the school about ensuring DS’s speech targets are being covered, although DP said it’s so important, perhaps we should pay privately for it. I don’t know.

I honestly don’t think having it in Section F will make any difference with the school. They see me as a pain, and even (very unprofessionally IMO) told my SEN friend in the same class on Friday that I should be grateful that they agreed to take DS on.

I have a phone call later with an independent advice line for our county. I’ll see what they say.

I would strongly suggest you pay for the speech therapy.

I teach a very able student in year 13. According to their EHCP (which hasn't been updated properly since primary 🙄) they should be having speech therapy. They didn't get any till I made a big fuss when they joined year 12. They really, really need it.

You simply can't trust this system.

@Phineyj interesting to hear that about your yr13. My last discussion with the SALT was that she had no suggestions for provision to support DD with the language difficulties associated with autism eg inference so just put some generic provision in her ehcna report. I would be really interested to find some provision that might actually help! I suspect SALT mostly works with primary or students with learning delay - she seemed out of her depth with DD whose English target is an 8....

@RibbyJumper provision detailed, specified and quantified in F can be enforced, via judicial review if necessary. And ultimately it is the LA rather than the school who is responsible for it. Personally, I wouldn’t pay privately on an ongoing basis. I would appeal the EHCP to get it in there (along with tightening everything else up), then enforce it.

@handmademitlove SALT isn’t just for those who are young or with learning delays, but you do need the right SALT.

@handmademitlove the SLT we saw for the ECHNA was an ebullient Irish lady who had a ball assessing DD! DD is chatty and sharp and insightful and funny.

DD does have some typical autistic issues around inference and motivation but having spent years saying (about TV programmes she's made me watch "why do you think Tracy is angry/upset/doing that"? DD: "Dunno"), I've decided her excellent comprehension will have to do.

DH has got through life quite successfully tbh with little idea of why other people do the things they do...

There's a tradeoff isn't there though, between endless tribunals and other legal stuff and working for pay which means you have funds to pay for stuff?

Paying for something also means you're the customer and can take a view on quality, whereas sadly if the state provide it you tend to get what you get.

I feel that with speech time is of the essence. It is much, much harder for the 18 year old I mentioned to change their communication than it would be for a little kid. They are also unable to make friends despite the other students being kind and inclusive.

Regarding time and money, now I've got the EHCP in place I've increased my teaching hours from 0.6 to 0.8 FTE and taken on an acting management role.

I wouldn't have had the time or headspace to do that before last September.

@Phineyj I agree.... I'm lucky in that I have a flexible job where I can work from home if needed. They have also so far been supportive with me having to deal with DD's EBSA. But at the moment I'm finding I'm spending more time and energy working on the EHCP process than I am in my actual paid work 😬

It also feels like surely all the time and energy battling the school and LA (and also for the SENCO with the amount of time she spends replying to my emails and covering themselves!) would be better spent supporting DD. (Obviously I don't do it when I'm looking after her, but my headspace is often still occupied with it).

Have to say if I was a teacher or have any other job where it was essential for me to be out of the house, I would either be on long-term sick or fired.

My friend is going through it with a Y11 in autistic burnout who's out of school more often than in (no EHCP). She is a teacher and the school have been as flexible as they can, but it's very difficult.

@Phineyj That must be really difficult. One of the tricky things is the unpredictability of it and so you can't often plan for when they'll go in or not. We'd had a few good weeks of DD going in every day and usually by 10am, but it went downhill again on Monday with a lunchtime arrival time.

Today I am meant to be working (and it is usually an office day) but have had DD home all morning (though that was planned - she's struggling with forest school at the moment which is every other Weds AM and was given the option of either forest school, sit with the other Y4 class or have work sent home to be completed - if not completed, she gets an unauthorised absence 🤨).

None of those are really workable options (she really struggles with academic work, apart from reading, at home - focus, attention, interest, encroaching on safe space etc), but she obviously chose the latter.

Managed to get her to do some, but had huge meltdowns when it was time to get ready to go in and it took an hour and half of taking it slow and calming her down before she was eventually ready to go in at 1.30 (was meant to be 12).

Now have to go back to school in 10 mins to watch younger DS' class assembly!

Oh yes the lockdown of 2020 was like that for us (although at least without the added pressure of anyone checking on the work!)

Do you keep a diary of the episodes at home? Might be handy.

@Phineyj Luckily didn't have too much of that pressure (just a few phonics in Winter 2021!) We have done periodically, but nothing consistent. Might be worth noting things more comprehensively.

@BrightYellowTrain Think my relationship with the SENCO has officially crossed over into me being that parent 😬

"It is unfortunate that the meeting (Early Help) was scheduled on a day I was not at (school) as I fear some of the messages may have been slightly miscommunicated or misunderstood in my absence. As previously mentioned, XX is a second-year social work student, who has never written a moving-forward plan before. This plan needed authorisation from both myself, as her on-site supervisor, and her off-site supervisor prior to being shared with you to ensure that both the educational setting and university tutors support XX’s development in her practice.
Whilst you are welcome to refer back to the original plan, you will notice that the updated version provides clearer recommendations for both home and school. I also asked XX to source some courses you can access as part of the family support section. I would like to also clarify that I have not indicated that any of the recommendations cannot be provided due to a lack of resources (Well, the FLO and XX did!). Instead, I have suggested that we explore how we can deliver the recommendations based on timings of the school day and when we can ensure X has access to the support, considering her attendance."

"It is more realistic at this time, to be able to achieve pre-teach within a small group in the afternoon. This can start from next week and progress will largely be monitored in engagement levels in maths lessons through teacher monitoring.

In maths and writing, the class teacher consistently rotates around the class to support any child requiring assistance, so X can also benefit from this individualised support and broken down tasks if she is present for lessons."

Should progress also be measured in attainment (considering she was at expected levels for maths and has now dropped to developing)? And also how much DD expresses maths as a reason for not wanting to go to school?

Does the LA share with the school the evidence I submit for the appeal?

Hmm @Namechangeagain80 sometimes the length of an email tells its own story!

@Phineyj The lady doth protest too much?!

Not appealing is, of course, your* *prerogative. Hence my post saying ‘personally’. Personally, I would appeal.

It isn’t solely about the direct SALT provision. It is about the EHCP as a whole. Ribby’s DS clearly needs SALT, OT (including SIOT) and some form of MH provision (IIRC animal-assisted therapy). None of which were sufficiently detailed, specified and quantified enough to be enforced in any way. All require more provision than just the direct therapeutic time. Things like training staff working with DS, liaison with the school/Ribby/other professionals involved and preparing for and attending the AR need to be considered. That is on top of the things like 1:1 which isn’t currently watertight and unless there is a miracle won’t be without an appeal.

A watertight EHCP is worth its weight in gold. A poor EHCP isn’t worth the paper it is written on. A good EHCP can provide provision well in excess of what most parents can afford to fund themselves regardless of if they work more. That’s without considering some provision can’t be bought. Many schools wouldn’t allow parents to fund 1:1s. Some schools don’t allow outside professionals commissioned by in (unless forced by SENDIST). Some schools wouldn’t undertake training and liaison unless in the EHCP.

Paying for something also means you're the customer and can take a view on quality, whereas sadly if the state provide it you tend to get what you get.

Only if you have a poor EHCP. This is where the importance of a watertight EHCP comes into play. Not just in terms of including training/qualifications/experience, but things like giving priority to those professionals with whom DC has an existing trusting relationship.

@Namechangeagain80 even the email is written using a myriad of woolly phrases. ‘Access to’ , ‘would benefit from’. All progress should be considered. Evidence from a refusal to assess appeal isn’t automatically shared with the school.

SS that we are trying to get DS into have said they can meet need if provided with correct funding, that has been agreed ft 1-1 also weekly OT and SALT therapys. School have received the updated WD and are saying they can't deliver ELKLAN and not all staff have AET training. Worried as we were so close DS has visited, school have seen up to date assessments, many discussions with me. I had already asked for 'all staff in the setting' to be re-worded to 'staff working directly with DS' to have AET training- this was agreed. I am waiting for an update tomorrow on the qualifications/ training of the staff that will be working with DS. If they cannot deliver ELKLAN- what is similar to this?

Elklan and AET training are relatively easy to arrange in the grand scheme of things. I wouldn’t look to change from Elklan. It should be relatively easy for the school to sort for staff working with DS.

ELKLAN was delivered in MS and his TA had AET training, waiting to hear the alternatives they are offering don't want it to be the be all and end end all. Thanks for your reply as I thought they would not be hard to put in place.. waiting on a phone call today, if all is resolved he will finally have a SS place for September. B and F are how we want them, hopefully soon I will be too. I wonder whether the LA will concede if all goes to plan. They have said DS will be given taxi with a travel assistant, this has been included in costs. We are not going to be using transport until he is settled as this would just tip him over the edge. I don't want to loose this as us doing transport is un doable long term.. can this change?? Im worried about having to fight for appropriate transport down the line. I am going to see if a later date can be arranged, and get this in writing but im still worried about that not being followed through on LA's side. Other dc won't leave home without me so I'm doing her transport for the foreseeable. Both schools being 45 mins apart.

The decision you make on transport now doesn’t have to be the decision you make long term. Although the LA may try to refuse, you would be able to challenge it.

Even if you don’t want transport to start with, you can also request mileage.

@Phineyj @BrightYellowTrain

LA has conceded and will undertake EHCNA.

Thank you for all of your advice so far 🙂

I had a phone call from our county independent advice line yesterday and she said word for word what @BrightYellowTrain has advised and I wondered at one point if I was talking to you! 😆
I have got the final now and it’s so much better (although the TEACHH acronym with the word ‘handicapped’ is still there which IS grating me).

Looking back at the old 2023 EHCP (which I guess is the only legally binding provision he currently has) it is SO much better. He is due his next review in July so I’m thinking - I have something legally better in place for now rather than appeal.
In July I will have a far better awareness, be on top of time frames, and go then for an appeal while he has this better provision in place for now.