EHCP support thread no. 4

[Phineyj]

We've nearly filled the thread again, so here's a new one. Welcome everyone: newcomers, people stuck in the process; battle-hardened veterans of many years...

Here are links to previous threads:

EHCP support thread - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4834986-ehcp-support-thread

EHCP support thread no. 2 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4989146-ehcp-support-thread-no-2

EHCP support thread no. 3 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5077140-ehcp-support-thread-no-3

Does anyone know what TEACHH is? Is it outdated? Seems off to me that a good program would use the term ‘handicapped’.

And also - I have no idea what funding he is getting. Do I have a right to know? This info all seems very ‘smokescreen-y’ from both the school and the LA.

I hate that this is all about money. I almost don’t want to know, but I think I’ve got to learn to talk their language.

Brilliant @Namechangeagain80. Make sure you request all the assessments, e.g SALT and OT that are required. IPSEA has a model letter you can use.

@RibbyJumper it wasn’t me! I don’t work for SENDIASS, and I spent most of yesterday in hospital with DS1.

You can ask for a costed provision map. However, focus on the provision detailed, specified and quantified in F of the EHCP rather than the funding.

TEACCH is a common approach to supporting DC with ASD. Has been for a long time. Works for many. Doesn’t work for all. It is an approach that uses a set of principles to support DC, e.g. use of visuals, structured teaching systems, workstations. The use of the word handicapped is in part because it is American and the use of language is different - not just in relation to handicapped, but more widely about disability.

I hope your DS1 is ok, and that you are too x

The advice line also said that I can ask for any future SALT reports to have that level of detail too, which is useful to know!

@BrightYellowTrain Thank you 🙂 It does feel like a small victory, though I know it's only the start. Yes, I will do, and swot up on everything else I need to do next and be aware of! It's crazy how much you need to know to follow this process. Hope your son is okay by the way.

@RibbyJumper @Namechangeagain80 Thanks both. DS1 has a UTI, but he is fine. As part of his complex needs, he has complex medical needs and has a button device in his bladder so needed seeing and bloods taken. He has a port in his chest for access, but it wouldn’t bleed; staff couldn’t get peripheral access, so we had to wait for an anaesthetist.

@BrightYellowTrain

Your DS has the most amazing mummy. You’ve been godsend on here. I feel I’ve been picking your brains for info without considering what other people are going through. I think, despite the rubbish that happens - conversely, you do come across some of the best, most helpful people around too.

@RibbyJumper don’t worry. For everything some say about MN, there are some wonderfully kind people on here. Many years ago, I received support from MN’ers I could never repay. They held my hand through horrendous times.

@BrightYellowTrain Aw, bless him, I hope he is on the mend very soon.

I second @RibbyJumper. Your knowledge and willingness to help others is incredible.

From my brief appearance on here, I can only echo that comment, @BrightYellowTrain.

I’ll third that, RibbyJumper

Regarding timescales - if the LA agreed to assess yesterday, how long do they now have to do the assessment? Is it 14 weeks from now?

We ideally want to get a private EP assessment done - is it best to get one done at this stage? Presumably one who will write in line with EHCP requirements? (Though might be waiting lists?)

DD is currently having private play therapy with an AutPlay-certified therapist as we'd reached crisis point with EBSA in early January. She has bonded well with the therapist and this does seem to be helping to some extent. How is a need for and impact of this sort of therapy assessed? Can I ask the play therapist to write a report? Presumably play therapy can be written into an EHCP - can a specific therapist?

What role in CAMHS is it best to request they approach for assessment?

Sorry for all the questions... They really don't make this easy, do they...

You are a lovely bunch, and you are all welcome.

@Namechangeagain80 I know you have appealed, but I can’t remember where you are in the process. If the LA has conceded before they responded, the LA has 10 weeks to inform you they aren’t going to issue/14 weeks to finalise if they are going to issue from the date they notified SENDIST they do not oppose the appeal. If the LA conceded after they responded, the LA has 10 weeks to inform you they aren’t going to issue/14 weeks to finalise if they are going to issue from the date of the consent order.

Unless you are extremely lucky with a cancellation, you will not get an independent EP report from someone with SENDIST experience within the timescales. And, personally, unless money is no object, I wouldn’t seek an independent EP assessment now. The LA must seek advice and information from an EP during the EHCNA. If you have to appeal, you may decide you need to target your money at e.g. independent OT and SALT reports and the LA EP report will do (not brilliant but satisfactory compared to the need to get independent SALT and OT).

Who you request the LA seeks advice from within CAMHS will depend on her needs. You could think about requesting the LA seeks advice and information from a clinical psychologist or a psychiatrist.

Yes, I would ask the play therapist to write a report. Ask them if they have experience of writing medico-legal reports. If not, ask if they would be willing to read about EHCPs and how reports need to be written. Play therapy can be included in F. A specific professional cannot be named in F - for good reason, what if they retired/moved/the relationship broke down? However, you can have wording such as, “Priority must always be given to those professionals with whom X has an existing trusting relationship…”

@BrightYellowTrain Thank you so much 😊

They sent the LA response form to SENDIST yesterday (which was due back by today) and they ticked 'No' to the 'Is the appeal opposed?' question, then in 'Reasons for opposing', said that they do not oppose and will undertake the needs assessment. So 10/14 weeks from yesterday?

Hmm, interesting. So private OT and SLT assessments may be better than private EP? No, unfortunately don't have limitless money for assessments... Though had concerns reading some of these threads that the LA EP assessments aren't particularly useful, they don't do any form of cognitive testing and that often they don't even meet the child in person. Is that generally the case? Do have some concern that DD has some form of perhaps dysgraphia/other SpLD that is contributing to the EBSA. She previously had a (primarily sensory) private OT assessment (but not EHCP compliant and over a year ago) who also picked up a discrepancy between her high visual perception and low visual motor integration, but didn't comment much on the implications or remedies, just said it would be quite frustrating for DD. So thought an in-depth EP assessment might unpick some of these things...

That's great, thank you.

Thank you. Yes, of course... But good that you can make that clear 🙂

@Namechangeagain80 yes, from yesterday.

What independent assessments to prioritise depends on the individual circumstances - DD’s needs, what evidence you already have/will have via the EHCNA and what the existing evidence is like. Some will need to prioritise EP. Some OT. Some SALT. Some physio. Some ISW… you get the idea.

LA reports are often poor, but that extends to all advice and information they seek, not just EP reports. They are often vague and woolly and not comprehensive (so many don’t include cognitive testing in EP assessments but equally, for example, many OT assessments don’t cover sensory needs or only pay cursory attention to that element). Push back if anything other than F2F assessments are suggested.

@BrightYellowTrain Every day my eyes are opened wider as to their levels of strategic incompetence. As you say, if they don't identify the need, they don't need to meet it.

Thank you, it's tricky because I think DD has similar levels of need (and that fluctuate so some times one will affect her more and then another) across several areas.

The SENCO sent me the 'final' version of the student social worker's report the other day. And whilst indeed all of the school recommendations are now incredibly woolly (eg something like 'provide maths support with step by step instructions' with no mention of how, who, etc), I think that some of the needs she has identified are very clear and detailed (she has also obtained the views of her teacher as well - which includes needs that have not been previously disclosed to me).

Despite barely any of the needs being addressed by effective recommendations (the gap in DD's curriculum knowledge is presumably to be met by the home recommendation of "...having a dedicated workbook at home that focuses on areas where she may feel as though she is behind..."!!), presumably this is still good evidence of need?

@Namechangeagain80 you can still use the report as evidence of need. Although now the LA has agreed to assess, it is less important, because things like the EP, SALT, OT and (an actual) social care assessment should be undertaken which should cover needs, outcomes, provision in the way that is required for EHCPs.

@BrightYellowTrain Thank you. It is less that it is from a social care perspective; more that the student had been at the school for a good few months, DD had been having weekly sessions with her for 6-7 weeks (and had been available if DD had arrived at school dysregulated), she had gained DD's trust and the student had seen more of who she really was. She had also spoken to myself and her teacher and had gained quite in-depth feedback, so the report is quite extensive in covering DD's social skill and academic needs.

Obviously she is not an EP, SLT nor OT (and it doesn't cover OT side anyway), but more the expertise is from knowing DD and the school, so might offer something additional to what I imagine a fleeting snapshot from the LA assessments would?

@Namechangeagain80 you can still use it, but the LA is likely to pay less attention to it than e.g. the evidence from the EP.

Would really appreciate some advice from @BrightYellowTrain ot anyone who can help.

After a year out school and tribunal in a few days LA have offered the school I want.

One sticking point is I have an EP report stating maximum class size, but LA won’t add this to provision in F.

Should I try to force it through tribunal or just take the placement?

@PeaHen99 there’s no right or wrong answer. Some would take the school as a win (and maybe attempt to amend at a later date). If the evidence is strong, some would think they are so close, they may as well see it through.

@BrightYellowTrain Thank you again 🙂

Thank you @BrightYellowTrain appreciate your input.
I’ll sleep on it. The only reason I was adamant on the class size was to get the school place he has now been offered.
Seems like a battle not worth fighting now

Question on transport please. We are looking for eotas for ds2 as schools won't be able to meet his needs. The council have consulted with local schools and 2 of the 3 have refused him, with one still no response. We don't see any school being able to meet his needs in the near future, but hopefully that might change in the longer term .

They are now consulting with schools that are further away. I would estimate 45 mins to 1 plus hours depending on traffic. I have emailed back to say that he hates car journeys, so wouldn't be safe for him or the driver. He has a variety of tricks to make his displeasure known, including getting out of the seat belt and kicking and screaming. And that's with a tablet on in my car, let alone a stranger driving.

Does the council have to take this into account or not? It obviously didn't come up in the educational psychologist meeting, as that was at home.

@SprigatitoYouAndIKnow typically the maximum recommended travel time is 45 minutes at primary and 1hr15 at secondary. Although some travel further. If this isn’t appropriate, that should be considered. You should gather evidence to support your claim.