EHCP support thread no. 4

[Phineyj]

We've nearly filled the thread again, so here's a new one. Welcome everyone: newcomers, people stuck in the process; battle-hardened veterans of many years...

Here are links to previous threads:

EHCP support thread - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4834986-ehcp-support-thread

EHCP support thread no. 2 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4989146-ehcp-support-thread-no-2

EHCP support thread no. 3 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5077140-ehcp-support-thread-no-3

@RibbyJumper if the Sendco is not doing their job properly, hold them to account. I used to worry about being "that parent" until someone said to me that I was the only person who could advocate for my child, and if I didn't, who would? If a member of staff makes a mistake, I firstly email them to request they correct the mistake. If they do not do so, I email again and cc in their line manager. Usually with a " can you explain why you said X when clearly that is not the case, as evidenced by Y"... In a less blunt way of course!

I work in my DDs school and was so worried about difficult conversations and how that would affect relationships with staff, but actually we are all really clear that the conversations I have about my child are always in the best interests of my child and they are always kept professional.

But I also don't tolerate people not doing their job properly, even though I understand the why. So I hold them to account. For DDs sake. Even when I submitted formal complaints about members of staff, it has not been an issue because I was justified in doing so. Awkward perhaps, but that went away fairly quickly!

@handmademitlove

Head and SENCo are very close. always standing together in playground when children go in - and I have a strange feeling of being watched. Last week the boy who is now doing half days was on the floor/refusing to go in and the head, SENCO, class teacher and poor mum were surrounding the boy. Head and SENCO were - quite aggressively IMO - telling him ‘you need to stay safe today’ (it was Forest school day). Witnessing incidents like this makes me want to avoid too much interaction with SENCO.

@handmademitlove I formally complained about a head, Sendco and support. But they all ( head teachers etc) stuck together and made me look like a fool. Gas lighted to a point I thought I was going mad. The governors did an investigation which was full of lies.... I was basically told to FO.

@RibbyJumper the EHCP should not be watered down.

On their own, ‘qualified’ and ‘trained’ are both problematic. Qualified in what? What training?

There isn’t a universal way EHCPs are set out. Some LAs would sometimes use tables. Others wouldn’t.

The LA should have used the SALT’s evidence for SALT content. I would focus on ensuring the EHCP is finalised ASAP, then appealing if necessary. The way to ensure SALT provision is provided is by having it detailed, specified and quantified in F.

If DS requires a consistent 1:1/TA/LSA... [insert required wording here] (or 2 or 3 depending on how many hours it is for) providing the provision, that needs to be included in F. Otherwise, it doesn’t have to be a consistent 1:1/TA/LSA/insert whatever wording here. Even if DS doesn’t need a consistent 1:1/TA/LSA/insert whatever wording here, the provision being provided by a parent helper is why the wording needs to be tighter.

You may feel the caseworker has been more responsive and empathetic, but she has managed to string you along again. Don’t fall for it.

@BrightYellowTrain

Thank you so much. So watered down from the school’s provision map plan when they asked for funding. The SENCO told me this was never achievable - funding wise, even though she wrote it.

Yes. Although I don’t think the person who is doing most of his support is qualified. But I’d rather it was her, as she is gentle and empathetic. Rather than the very qualified SENCO who describes DS as having a ‘tiny, squeaky voice’ or ‘needs encouragement to do every part of the school day otherwise he will just sit there not taking on instruction’. A statement which was not true because, at this stage, he was coming hoe and reciting the register to me in name order and repeating his phonic lessons word for word.

I will think about that working carefully to avoid parent helper.

I don’t know. This is wrong but her recent emails have not included SENCO in email string. I feel I can rewrite as I want as SENCO seems to be fed up with situation. Therefore I can slip some wording back in.

Gosh, those SENCO comments betray little understanding of how children learn.

To be fair, I don't quite understand how DD learnt to read or the many other things she knows when, she appears to pay very little attention, but she takes a lot in. It's helped me not worry too much about students I teach with ADHD. I look to see what they produce, not what they do.

@RibbyJumper provision in EHCPs should be based on what is reasonably required to meet the needs in B (which should include all special educational needs). It should not be watered down based on funding, what the school wants to or can provide, or what a SENCO thinks is achievable to secure.

Although I don’t think the person who is doing most of his support is qualified…Rather than the very qualified SENCO

This is what I mean. Qualified in what? Having QTS (and the NASENCO/NPQSENCO if they aren’t still working towards it), which is what I think you are meaning by ‘qualified’, doesn’t always make someone the appropriate person to deliver the SEP in F. And ‘qualified’ alone could mean qualified in anything including irrelevant areas such as being a qualified electrician.

The recent emails are another way of stringing you along. The latest in a long line of delaying tactics and excuses. At the end of January, “The LA said they’d have the finalised EHCP to be this week, and the reason for the delay was phase transfers.” It is excuse after excuse. You can see why it is a successful strategy from the LA’s PoV. Whether the SENCO is copied in or not is irrelevant. The wording in the EHCP isn’t based on what the SENCO wants or doesn’t want amended because of what they want/don’t want to deliver or what they don’t think is achievable.

@Phineyj

Little understanding, but also dismissive. Tiny, squeaky actually sounds slightly dehumanising to me, and it’s the use of the word ‘just’. ‘Just sits there’. SENCO has also described DS as extremely passive which I’ve had removed. I’m just trying to imagine writing a report that says ‘this child has a tiny, squeaky voice and just sits there’.

The fact that you’ve stated ‘I don’t quite understand’ or ‘appears not have listened, but has learnt’ shows that empathy that teachers need. You are prepared to admit that you don’t know, and the child has learnt in their own unique way. You are valuing the child.

Aw, @RibbyJumper, I do like teenagers, even the ones who are a bit of a pain (weren't we all at some point?!)

I'd question the sanity of anyone who spent all week in a school who doesn't tbh.

A SLT I worked with recently shared some helpful guidance on describing things positively or at least neutrally.

So "has strong interests" not "obsessed with special interests" or "determined" not "inflexible".

So maybe "working on effective vocal projection in a group" or "watching, taking things in" (my autistic husband's exactly like that - he won't speak if he has nothing to say) rather than "tiny/squeaky/passive."

@BrightYellowTrain

Thank you. ‘delivered by TA with SEN training, supported by the class teacher with reference to the speech therapist’s termly targets??’

So to my mind, the SENCO wanted to get 29hours of funding from the LA. So overstated what he was getting to secure that funding level?

@RibbyJumper that’s too woolly. For example, what ‘SEN training’? 30 minutes as part of a whole school inset day 3 years ago about completely different needs to those DS has? Or something more? What does ‘supported by’ actually mean? Is the SALT provision further detailed, specified and quantified?

Funding isn’t related to what the school was providing or what they said they were providing. It is related to what is actually detailed, specified and quantified in F of the EHCP.

Well, I’ve just had an email from his caseworker at 7pm on a Sunday evening.

She’s said write it, that’s no problem. She’ll check it. SENCO not linked in.

She says her manager is going to phone me tomorrow.

She said I’ve got her unwavering support.

She told me not to water anything down.

And yet the amended EHCP is still not finalised 8 months following the AR meeting.

Yes @BrightYellowTrain thank you. You are the voice of reason, and I need to hear what you are saying.

I will write today keeping what you’ve said in mind.

I think I need to stop myself playing an emotional blame game, and just get the lawful result - and lawfully this is the responsibility of the LA.

Ready to sign consent order to halt final hearing but la have yet to underline our changes in working document? They said agreed to them but still bold?! Should this be changed before I sign? Thanks all!

@246810k what has been agreed needs to be reflected in the latest version of the WD first.

Thanks @BrightYellowTrain for replying last week.

If the LA is ignoring you, complain to the ICO. If there is something specific you want, you could try asking SENDIST to direct them to release the information.

The ICO's website says to wait one month after the deadline before submitting a complaint. It is so frustrating how the LA are enabled to get away with this crap. I've been asking the LA for five months about our WDs and which schools they're consulting with. They've also had meetings with our SENCo that they refused to let us in on. There are only two months to go until our hearings, so this will be over soon but it is so stressful and my kids are still home with EBSA ... and I know when this battle is over, there will be the next one waiting.

Following the hearing, there will be a wait for the Order. SENDIST aims to send this with 10 working days. ... If SENDIST orders the content is amended, the LA has 5 weeks. If SENDIST only orders the placement is amended, the LA has 2 weeks. The LA may need chasing to finalise. Once the EHCP is finalised, unless stated otherwise, transition would begin then.

They will likely be amending B, F and I. Will we find out the decision on the day of the hearing, or will it be ten excruciating working days of waiting?

Thank you!

@SpaceInvader321 Orders are rarely made on the day, and it may be more than 10 days…

Ah, I incorrectly assumed you had already got to the point of being able to complain to the ICO. Do that as soon as you are able and consider asking SENDIST to direct the LA to release anything particular you want.

@BrightYellowTrain The SENCO replied before I had chance to send an official email about the meeting (or about academic support in general in which I was going to reference other discussion at the meeting):

"Regarding the amendments, it is my understanding that these were discussed during your meeting on Friday. One of the key changes was the wording of the adult support offered to X. As you are aware, XX is still in training, and while she has made commendable progress working with X and the other children, she is still in the process of learning and developing. This is the first time she has written such a plan, and ideally, it should have been reviewed and agreed upon by both myself and her off-site supervisor before being sent to you. However, in an effort to be proactive, XX forwarded it to you prematurely, for which I sincerely apologise."

Any thoughts?

@Namechangeagain80 the SENCO shouldn’t be trying to quality control the report. It would be commonplace for the student social worker’s practice supervisor to have input/offer guidance, but the SENCO shouldn’t be requesting amendments based on what the school can or will provide. Having said that, for a refusal to assess appeal, you probably already have enough evidence to get over the threshold.

Thank you. I have just sent my earlier planned reply (and further email with extracts from the official minutes which I received this morning) as though I hadn't seen this reply.

She also blamed DD's lack of consistent arrival time for their inability to do any pre-teaching (identified as needed) as the year group TA is apparently ready to do this with DD at 8.45!

She said however that they could do this in a small group at the end of the day.

@BrightYellowTrain Sorry, another question from me!!

I fully appreciate LAs are useless at keeping to most of the timescales - do they usually meet the deadline to submit their response to the appeal? Their deadline is this Friday.

I note that if they don't meet the deadline to submit the final tribunal bundle, they're barred from proceedings - are there any sanctions if they miss the earlier ones?

@Namechangeagain80 it isn’t uncommon for LAs to miss SENDIST deadlines. LAs are given repeated chances to comply. Just because SENDIST say they will be barred, doesn’t mean they are. They mostly aren’t. Even when they are, they are often reinstated.

Hi, I have only put one school down for my child’s ehcp draft, what would happen if the school proved they couldn’t accept her for some reason? Would the sen officer ask me to provide another school or would they find a school themselves? Also transport if she can’t go to my local school would the LA pay for her transport to school?

If the LA wasn’t going to name your preferred school, they wouldn’t necessarily ask you about other preferences.

Transport is possible. Once DD is compulsory school age, it is easier to enforce. Before DD becomes compulsory school age, things can be more difficult. There isn’t the same duty to provide transport, but they have the discretion to provide it and you can argue the provision of transport is necessary to facilitate DD’s attendance at the school named in section I of the EHCP.