EHCP support thread no. 4

[Phineyj]

We've nearly filled the thread again, so here's a new one. Welcome everyone: newcomers, people stuck in the process; battle-hardened veterans of many years...

Here are links to previous threads:

EHCP support thread - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4834986-ehcp-support-thread

EHCP support thread no. 2 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4989146-ehcp-support-thread-no-2

EHCP support thread no. 3 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5077140-ehcp-support-thread-no-3

@Cinnamoncupcake when you respond to the draft, you should state your preferred placement for September as well as now.

If your preference is the local primary school, ignore the HT. The LA is responsible for provision detailed, specified and quantified in F, which is what 1:1 should be if it is reasonably required (and if it is required but isn’t in there, you will need to appeal whatever school is named), and that includes ensuring there is sufficient funding to actually provide the provision. EHCPs can be fully funded, but LAs don’t do this unless forced. If the school needs more funding, they should approach the LA.

Once DD is compulsory school age, transport is possible. Sometimes LAs will try to refuse if they believe there is a closer school suitable, but it is possible to challenge this. This SENTAS article explains more. Before DD becomes compulsory school age, things can be more difficult. There isn’t a duty to provide transport, but they have the discretion to provide it and you can argue the provision of transport is necessary to facilitate DD’s attendance at the school named in section I of the EHCP. If you have to appeal, Gavin at SENTAS is helpful.

If you state 2 preferences, a MS and SS, it is overwhelmingly likely the LA will state a MS (whether it is the one you stated or not), so if your preference is SS, you don’t have to state a MS and personally I wouldn’t.

How much weight would a report made by a student social worker hold in terms of additional evidence for an EHCNA refusal to assess appeal?

My DD8 has been having weekly emotional literacy sessions with a student social worker on placement at the school. She is due to finish her placement in a couple of weeks and has produced a 'Moving on report'. It has not yet been finalised, but I have a copy of the draft - it's quite extensive and includes comments the student has gathered from the class teacher on how much DD is struggling socially, the impact her EBSA is having on her full understanding of the curriculum (and her Spring interim report shows a reduction in progress and attainment in maths) and her significant lack of confidence in class.

The student has made several recommendations, which includes further 1:1 emotional support, social skills group and other chances for small group work, and a 1:1 intervention (she has caveated this with if possible) for maths.

What I intend to do if time before the final evidence deadline (end of month) is to ask the SENCO how she intends to respond to these recommendations and submit both the report and her response. I spoke to the student on the phone about the report last week and she was doubtful that they would be able to implement the maths intervention because of lack of resources.

But yes, generally just asking how this kind of report would be viewed.

She doesn't suggest any recommendations specifically to do with S&L, but the challenges the teacher has listed seem to be significant in terms of not picking up on tone, body language or gestures and how if these were not addressed, it will significantly affect her further emotional and social development.

The school does not have independent S&L provision (outwith EHCPs), so surely this strongly suggests that S&L provision, and therefore an EHCP (or at least an EHCNA!) is necessary?

Please can anyone help?? .... The one and only school (independent SS) that say they could meet need 2 times... Now they have done the assessment on my dd and just said no they can't meet need good bye.... I'm heartbroken and devastated. My dd has done 2 full taster days at a massive distress to her.. And that's that no.
Now what??? Nobody wants her.

Any advice please

@Onegentlepeer is the school wholly independent or a section 41 independent?

You say it is the one and only school who say they can meet needs, but are there other non-wholly independent schools you think can meet needs even if they say they can’t?

@Namechangeagain80 it is something SENDIST will consider. Don’t worry if you don’t have the report before the final evidence deadline. You can request late evidence is admitted. Request the vague ‘if possible’ is removed and to define ‘small group’.

Brilliant thank you for your help, that has explained so much so I truly appreciate your response. I will be glad when this draft comes to know how much they have actually put on there. I have spoken to the SENCo at my daughter preschool and she said she will go through the draft with me once it’s been received. Just waiting now.

@BrightYellowTrain Thanks so much. Is it worth sending in the draft report in the meantime?

I've asked the student whether she has any additional recommendations on building confidence in the classroom and catching up on wider academic progress (the two challenges not met with recommendations). Though call me cynical.... Not saying that this will happen because I do think the SENCO is genuine and dedicated, but I have some concern that because the student has to send the report to the SENCO for approval (the SENCO has been acting as her 'line manager' whilst on placement), the SENCO will amend or remove any of the recommendations that they can't meet...

(Was partly why I asked for a copy of the draft - the student went over it on the phone with me and asked if I was happy with it; I otherwise wouldn't have seen it properly until it was finalised).

@Cinnamoncupcake by all means let the SENCO go through the EHCP with you, but don’t rely on them to inform you of all the amendments that are required.

@Namechangeagain80 I wouldn’t send the draft. ‘Quality control’ may happen, unfortunately. It happens with LA reports too. However, the school only has a duty to make their best endeavours to meet DD’s SEN and make reasonable adjustments. The school doesn’t have to provide all the recommendations. Hence requesting an EHCNA. So, if it happens, discussing it with the student and SENCO may be more likely to resolve the situation than it does going back and forth with the LA when it happens with them.

@BrightYellowTrain I just wanted to come back and say a proper thank you for your advice the other day. I was quite fraught and I don't think really reflected how helpful your very thorough posts were. We've put in our appeal on sections B, F and I and I'm going to opt for mediation first.

I've also put in a SAR to flush out what I think is the truth, which is that the panel named the setting before they'd received its consultation response, and obviously without having even consulted half the other settings. My hope is that the process was so objectively maladministered that we can agree with them it needs revisiting quickly - no guarantee they'll agree or name the setting we want either of course!

@BrightYellowTrain

The LA did a private tender. Only this one school responded to the tender.
They said they could meet dd needs and they wanted her. ( they said that on 2 separate occasions ) now dd has done 2 full exhausting taster days and they have said no... They can't offer her a place.
What happens now? Nobody wants her even though funding from the LA is available.
What do I do??? It's been the longest most stressful 6 years and we have been told no.
I'm running out off all hope.
Thank you for leaving a reply... Any help/ advise is massively appreciated.

@Leftoverssandwich you are welcome; there's no need to say thank you. Personally, I wouldn’t bother with mediation.

@Onegentlepeer in order to help you further, can you answer if the school is wholly independent or a section 41 independent? And if there are other non-wholly independent schools you think can meet needs even if they say they can’t/haven’t responded?

@BrightYellowTrain wholly independent

@BrightYellowTrain actually says other independent section 41 independent... I didn't know there was a difference... I wanted the local authority special but they say dd is too academically able so no dd can't go..... All the others responded with no.... Can't meet need or no peer group etc.. Won't even let me look round.... It's been no from everyone... Dd is Y5 but working at y3 due to her mainstream school just giving up on her. Dd has asc, speech and communication difficulties, demand avoidance, dyspraxia, sensory processing disorder.... But she a little angel and if she was given a chance she would catch up and thrive. She did amazing those 2 full taster days but obviously not good enough. She so disappointed she can't attend...

@Onegentlepeer for wholly independent schools to be named you need an offer of a place. You also need to prove the LA’s proposed school(s) can’t meet DD’s needs (if they propose one) &/or it isn’t unreasonable public expenditure.

For section 41 independents, you don’t need an offer of a place. They can be named even if they object. If your preference is a s41 independent, the LA must name the school unless the LA can prove:
-The setting is unsuitable for the age, ability, aptitude or special educational needs (“SEN”) of the child or young person; or
-The attendance of the child or young person would be incompatible with the provision of efficient education for others; or
-The attendance of the child or young person would be incompatible with the efficient use of resources.

I wanted the local authority special but they say dd is too academically able so no dd can't go..... All the others responded with no.... Can't meet need or no peer group etc.. Won't even let me look round....

But what do you think? Unless they are wholly independent, they can be named even if they object.

@BrightYellowTrain I named the LA special and we are going to tribunal in September.... I can not see us wining.

What is an 'other independent school'??? Is that wholly independent..... I've honestly read so many ofsted etc...

So what is in section I now? Does it name a mainstream? Or just a type? Or is it blank? Have you considered independent assessments for your appeal? If your preference is the LA SS, focus on ensuring your case for that is watertight.

Other independent schools are wholly independent.

Some other independent special schools are wholly independent and some are section 41 independent schools.

Hi again, so since my my last post the Sen officer called me saying they have finished her draft ehcp, told me mainstream would be able to meet her needs and asked if she will still be attending the same preschool and is my local primary school my preferred primary school. And that me, preschool and primary school will all receive the draft copy at the same time by Friday. I thought I would have 15 days before the school would have 15 days 😵‍💫 I wonder if they are trying to cut corners so it doesn’t go so far over the 20 weeks

@Cinnamoncupcake you can still state a special school if that is your preference. The draft must not state a placement or type of placement. You should be given a chance to make representations before placements are consulted.

Can I just check what the timeline looks like if we win at tribunal and the LA is ordered to name the wholly independent school that is our preference? Would DC take their places straightaway in May, or would we need to wait for the LA to do something? Could placement be postponed until September? Both DC have already been out of school for several months. Thanks.

Also, I made SARs back in January ... the LA missed the deadline and has ignored my chaser emails... They are just so blatantly criminal.

@BrightYellowTrain please could you help me understand this? The statement says
As of September 2025: Funding to support the provision detailed in section F is
provided through the delegated budget. In addition, top-up funding to the equivalent
of 15 hours has been agreed to total 30 hours equivalent support per week.
would this mean the school needs to provide the other 15 hours funding and that she needs the extra support for the full 30 hours? Draft arrived today so I’m just looking through it now

@SpaceInvader321 if the LA is ignoring you, complain to the ICO. If there is something specific you want, you could try asking SENDIST to direct them to release the information.

Following the hearing, there will be a wait for the Order. SENDIST aims to send this with 10 working days. However, some take longer. Occasionally a lot longer. If when you get the Order the LA is required to amend the EHCP, the LA will have time to that. If SENDIST orders the content is amended, the LA has 5 weeks. If SENDIST only orders the placement is amended, the LA has 2 weeks. The LA may need chasing to finalise. Once the EHCP is finalised, unless stated otherwise, transition would begin then.

@Cinnamoncupcake it means the top up funding the LA is going to provide the school with will be equivalent to 15hrs support. Don’t focus on the funding, focus on the provision detailed, specified and quantified in F. Then it can be enforced.

@BrightYellowTrain

So I have just received an email from the SENCO, which includes:

"I have proposed some amendments to X's plan to ensure that this is manageable for home and school and has clear and actionable recommendations for moving forward. I am awaiting a finalised version of this and as soon as I have this, I will forward it on."

So this does possibly sound as though she is only going to keep in the recommendations that the school can take forward.

If so, once I have received it, do you think I should argue that the original recommendations should be kept in? What should be my reasoning?

Thank you, if I’m honest I’m alittle disappointed with it, all the F sections seems good to go with B but there isn’t enough detail on 1-1, who with and for how long. They have done 1-1 or small group up to 4 for a few things but not everything.

@Namechangeagain80 I would ask what amendments the SENCO has requested the student social worker make. Don’t wait until the report is finalised. If the amendments requested are to remove recommendations, I would point out to the student that recommendations should be based on DD’s needs, not what is manageable for the school.

@Cinnamoncupcake request all the amendments required.

@BrightYellowTrain Thank you so much, I really appreciate your guidance. Request for information on the proposed amendments has been made. Is it also worth pointing that out to the SENCO?