EHCP support thread no. 4

[Phineyj]

We've nearly filled the thread again, so here's a new one. Welcome everyone: newcomers, people stuck in the process; battle-hardened veterans of many years...

Here are links to previous threads:

EHCP support thread - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4834986-ehcp-support-thread

EHCP support thread no. 2 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4989146-ehcp-support-thread-no-2

EHCP support thread no. 3 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5077140-ehcp-support-thread-no-3

I’ve probably given a poor impression of what I’ve already done and looked into as I was only really meaning to ask about the failure to consult. This is my fourth EHCP so very much not my first rodeo unfortunately, nor my first battle with an LA. I’ve had two children in specialist settings, both hard won.

I’m not mentioning school transport in the appeal. It was just an aside on here. Our appeal is entirely around the setting we want and the failures of the panel to observe either law or the code, and there’s case law to support my points. I’ve got some really helpful ideas though from you so thank you, particularly about whether we should appeal B and F.

Yes, I’ve researched pretty much every setting in a reasonable distance. There’s pretty much nothing that would work for them other than, ironically, possibly the unit in our catchment school that their sibling attends, which returned the bullshit response. If we try for that we definitely need to appeal F as it doesn’t currently support funding for a specialist place. But I’m not entirely convinced it’s right. I’d jump at the open offer of a place to find out but I think it’s highly unlikely. They’re currently learning online in an AP and it’s working brilliantly for them but the private online school offers the GCSEs they would like to do.

SS in my experience has been social services!

If you haven’t already, you could try to get a statement from the AP.

You may already have covered this too, but well as the OEAS provider, have you got other provision for things like PfA covered?

I would add that if the LA thinks that the named setting will meet need by using funding to contract an online provider as AP then I’d take that as a quick win to get my child properly connected with education. I’m not dogmatic at this point. But they haven’t yet shared any thoughts at all about how a school that can’t meet need will, er, meet need.

PfA is in the appeal!

I’ll get a statement from the AP when we pit the bundle together for sure. It’s taken so long to get it that it’s still newish.

I would be careful about agreeing to a school DD won’t be attending being named with them arranging AP. Not only shouldn’t it happen. It can lead to both the LA and school passing the buck and the child be stuck in the middle.

I wouldn’t accept that without firm guarantees on it happening, with the provider of the AP agreed and contracted. We’ve already been stuck for an endless year in the situation you describe and it is not going to continue. If I say that the school managed not to actually notice that they’d been named as the setting you’ll get a sense of the uphill journey we’ve been on.

In a dream world we’d have a mix of core learning online and the school actually doing some effective reintegration with some funding in it, which section F as drafted would support, but nothing I’ve seen suggests they are capable of that. They’re currently not meeting their basic safeguarding duty.

As you are probably aware, the problem is even if guarantees are made at the time, it doesn’t mean that will be stuck to.

No, fully aware of that. But my child is halfway through year 9 and I’m prepared to carry on fighting for the full shebang as long as it takes if they are able to access the right education even on a temporary basis while I’m doing it.

Ah, I read your take a quick win as you would take the school arranging AP rather than continue the appeal. Sorry if that wasn’t what you meant.

No. Not at all, I appreciate your input very much. It’s kind to take time to read all this!

No, if the school and LA can agree on what can be done right now, today, from the date of the EHCP, to meet my child’s needs, regardless of eventual setting, that would be great. Unfortunately at this point I’m not aware of any conversation at all between them so we are no further on at all.

My misunderstanding, apologies.

It is worth remembering that it is the LA with responsibility for ensuring DD receives a suitable full-time education and anything detailed, specified and quantified in F. So the LA doesn’t need the school to agree on what can be done and the LA cannot pass the buck. If they are refusing to provide this, enforcement action will focus their minds.

No. I totally know that. I have a draft email to the DoE copied to SENDIASS ready to go to tomorrow morning politely inquiring why, three weeks in, there is still no proposal for how the setting that can’t meet is to meet need, in line with their statutory duty to ensure those needs are met. Three weeks since a legal document came into force that has been ignored by everyone responsible for delivering it ever since. Or indeed even any contact with the school at all.

In the EHCNA , does anyone know if the local authority’s EP have any legal duty to speak to parents and schools separately, before making their report?

Also does the EP have any legal right or duty, to go in to the school and tell them where they aren’t doing enough for the child, before they make their EP report? I thought the EP was supposed to just talk to everyone and write up what they observe with recommendations.

I’m hearing that my local authority SEND panel often doesn’t follow its own EPs’ recommendations around agreeing to issue EHCPs anyway. What is the legality around that? There’s so much I don’t understand about this process. The local authority are clearly making the EP take on a rationing role for EHCPs though.,is this legal? Thought EPs were supposed to be allowed to be impartial.

With my daughters I had a telephone call with the LA Ed psych and preschool had a video call separately from me, they didn’t go into preschool to see my daughter, she said her job is to make it water tight for panel.

Thanks Cinnamoncupcake that’s what I was expecting too. Seems very inappropriate to do it any other way.
I don’t know how to get them to enforce normal standards though. Parents not knowing, seems to be what they are hoping for.

@EHCPerhaps there isn’t a legal duty requiring EPs to speak to parents and schools separately. Sometimes a joint meeting is how they gather evidence. It isn’t uncommon for EPs to say they think schools could do more - sometimes rightly, sometimes wrongly (or at least not without further resources). There’s nothing preventing them from doing that, but it doesn’t detract from what they should be including in their advice and information.

When deciding whether it is necessary to prepare an EHCP following the NA, which is the legal test set out in section 37 of the Children and Families Act 2014, the LA should consider the evidence collated during the EHCNA (Regulation 7 of the Special Educational Needs and Disability Regulations 2014). That means they should consider all evidence. Not cherry pick. However, that doesn’t stop them paying lip service to this and ‘considering’ it, disregarding anything they wish and forcing parents to appeal.

It isn’t lawful to require EPs to ration provision. However, again, that doesn’t stop them from trying to get away with it. Similarly, they shouldn’t have blanket policies preventing EPs from detailing, specifying and quantifying provision (SENCOP 9.51).

@BrightYellowTrain
Do you know how close to tribunal the LA can swap proposed school to SS?
Am at tribunal in 2 weeks and the proposed MS school could not be clearer they can’t meet needs.
I can only assume they will swap to SS last minute or are dragging it out as long as possible to avoid paying the fees of my proposed school. Really grateful for all of your input on this thread, have learned a lot!

@PeaHen99 I have known them to try it at any time, including at the hearing itself! It is a really underhand tactic.

@BrightYellowTrain Thank you.
It’s so underhand! Especially if it’s such a late change the parents don’t get the chance to visit the new school offered.
Do you know how it goes down with the tribunal?

@PeaHen99 SENDIST aren’t stupid. They see through LAs’ games. However, it sometimes leads to an adjournment, including sometimes to enable a visit.

In cases where the LA proposes MS and the parents are pursuing EOTAS/EOTIS, an independent school or non-maintained special school, I recommend ensuring your case could stand up to a last minute change.

Hi all, send tribunal hearing in less than 3 weeks. We've had the bundle some time now but just wondering are we likely to hear from sendist shortly to confirm the date and time? Anyone had a recent hearing able to confirm when they heard from them? Thanks all

@246810k you should hear within the next week.

Thank you @BrightYellowTrain
Was sure la were going to complete consent order but still waiting amendments from wd v4 from September

Morning all, I am thinking about schools to put on my daughters draft ehcp plan, it’s going to start in preschool so that will be on there and they have already said they will meet her needs, from September she will be in primary school, so I’m guessing how close it is I will have to state primary school too. I’m still waiting to receive the draft copy before having a meeting with the headteacher at my local school but she doesn’t seem keen on funding the extra for a 1-1 ( assuming she will get it and preschool said they will fight until 1-1 is on there ) but there is also another school that can meet needs 10 mins drive away, if i was to put the other school would they provide transport? Recently my partner has changed jobs and uses our car or would I need to try find a second car? Also I didn’t know if I should state a mainstream and special school on the draft.