EHCP support thread no. 4

[Phineyj]

We've nearly filled the thread again, so here's a new one. Welcome everyone: newcomers, people stuck in the process; battle-hardened veterans of many years...

Here are links to previous threads:

EHCP support thread - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4834986-ehcp-support-thread

EHCP support thread no. 2 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4989146-ehcp-support-thread-no-2

EHCP support thread no. 3 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5077140-ehcp-support-thread-no-3

@Cinnamoncupcake you can search for schools here. If you are looking for special schools, you can filter by special school, and even type of special school, but don’t filter by phase of education or types of SEN provision because some of the data sets are incomplete so you may miss some suitable schools.

You can see the timescales and what should happen at each point here.

Perfect thank you, so when the EHCNA is finalised do I need to apply for a ehcp or is this done automatically? I just read that they ask us about what school we want our child to go to, do the LA not decide that?

@Cinnamoncupcake you don’t apply for an EHCP. You request an EHCNA. If you (or someone else such as nursery) have already done that, you don’t need to do it again.

If the LA agrees to issue an EHCP, they will send you a draft. At that point, you can make representations and state your preferred placement. When the LA finalise, they may or may not name your preferred placement. If they don’t, you can appeal.

I didn’t realise this I thought they was 2 different things, so when it gets to 20 weeks and the final EHC plan gets issued this is the ehcp?

Yes, that's right.

Thank you ☺️ I thought it was going to be much longer

@Cinnamoncupcake if an EHCP is issued (without you having to appeal), legally the LA must finalise the EHCP by week 20.

LAs try to get away with breaching the timescales. If they fail to stick to them, you can force them to act, via judicial review if necessary.

It might take longer.

Does anyone know if i should/legally if I need to tell the LA that we won't be putting in an application for a mainstream reception place?

Had an independent EP a couple of weeks ago as due to delays LA and nursery agreed to it, nursery are sending report to LA imminently (just waiting on the copy of it myself to check over) which means with how horrendous they are we re going to be a bit tight for time with getting a ehcp draft pre january deadline if they agree to issue.

He's CSA in January 2026 as November birthday, but nursery have agreed that if we can't get a specialist school place they re happy to try to apply for a full year deferral for him to stay with them whilst we go to tribunal.

You don’t have to. Parents don’t have to apply for a school place. However, if you don’t have a finalised EHCP by the normal application deadline, you should think very carefully about not making an application via the normal admissions arrangements. Making the application doesn’t mean you actually have to take up the place if things go smoothly (or even if they don’t go smoothly).

Things to think about:

• You potentially have 2 appeals between now and a special school being named. What would you do if the LA refused to issue, then you had to appeal BFI and the second appeal wasn’t concluded before Sept 2026?
• What would you do in the likely event a full year deferral for an autumn born child without an EHCP was refused?
• Even if it isn’t refused, in line with the government’s handling admission requests for summer born children guidance, even if you want to defer DS to be educated outside his chronological year group, most (?all) areas require you to apply in the normal age group as well. Does this apply to your LA?
• Even if starting reception in September 2026 is agreed, without an EHCP there’s no guarantee the LA would agree to funding a nursery placement for the academic year 25/26 and you wouldn’t be eligible for early years funding for the whole year.
• What would you do in the unlikely but still possible event the LA refuses to issue and an appeal to SENDIST is not successful? Even if it legally should, SENDIST does err in law sometimes and that can take time to sort. Unless you plan to EHE, you could be left needing to make a late application which could leave you with a rubbish school far away.

@BrightYellowTrain I was just wondering, if I want to appeal section I to try and get a special school named for Sep 2025, should I try and amend the appeal grounds for my existing B&F appeal to include section I?

Or should I wait for the phase transfer review and wait to get the right of appeal via that? Although this may cause delays. And then hope this appeal will be merged with the current one?

Advice on choosing school for a ehcp. I would like my child to go to my villages mainstream school with a 1-1 the foundation building is next door to her nursery, she knows the teacher and I know the school is good with sen, my son receives some sen help but not at the level my daughter will need and the SENCo I’ve spoken to many times, it would be easier to get both children to school and it would help with transition because most people at the school know her, it sounds like a good school for her the only thing putting me off is the headteacher, when talking about 1-1 she said if she needed 1-1 the school wouldnt be able to afford this even with a ehcp and she would be better at a special school if 1-1 is needed, the health visitor thinks I should ignore this because she shouldn’t be talking to me about the school finances. What are you opinions, should I still push for this school?

@Ponche you won’t be able to appeal reception placement for Sept 25 yet. (Unless the LA has finalised the placement for next year already. Highly unlikely. Definitely not if you haven’t yet had the phase transfer review.)

When is the hearing for your current appeal? I would wait until the LA name the reception placement, then try to have the grounds of appeal amended. If that isn’t accepted, you will have to submit another appeal. If you need to submit a new appeal, sometimes the appeals can be consolidated.

It can get complex. Looking at non-phase transfer appeals, whilst in the appeal process, the review process must continue. That is a given. The outcome should then feed in to the WD process. Whether the LA should be issuing a finalised amended plan (rather than just the decision notice) is now somewhat of a grey area. Some believe not and the amendments should just feed into the WD. Previously issuing another amended final was generally fine and even if SENDIST required parents to submit a new appeal, they were consolidated. More recently, in some cases, SENDIST has said this supersedes the current appeal. There doesn’t seem to be one set established way. In some cases, it has been addressed in the existing appeal. In other cases, an appeal from scratch without consolidation has been required. The inconsistency is frustrating and unpredictable. Judge Jane McConnel is of the opinion amended EHCPs during appeal confuses matters and apparently expects LAs to only issue a decision notice (aka what they must do legally) then have any amendments feed into the WD process. A phase transfer review complicates matters further because LAs must legally amend. A minefield.

@Cinnamoncupcake I wouldn’t base your decision on the finances of the school. If 1:1 is detailed, specified and quantified in F, as it should be if it is required, it must be provided and can be enforced. The LA is ultimately responsible for ensuring it is provided. That includes ensuring there is sufficient funding to actually provide said provision. EHCPs can be fully funded. Although LAs won’t do so unless forced.

Thank you, that is so helpful, this has been the only thing worrying me about this whole process, I’m going to push for that school then, all the teachers are great there it’s just the headteacher

In short there are 5 mainstream schools within 2 miles of us, they re all supposedly "good" schools. I m conscious this gives the LA a lot of options to try to force them to take him.

If all goes to pot and the LA refuse specialist, refuse to do the full deferred year (although nursery senco has advised they ve never had an issue getting one accepted in the past couple of years even for autumn born kids, possibly because they're now hitting a year to complete EHCPs with the parents who don't fight) then we ll go with appealing as many times as it takes and try for EOTAS in the meantime or home educate in whichever way for however long it took to get a specialist school.

DS gets DLA until early 2026 so I get carers allowance and am not working(see no reason renewing it be any trouble past that), so we re prepared as a family for him to be home as long as it takes to get the right setting really.

It would be really useful to know what experiences other parents have had of that school, @Cinnamoncupcake. How well plugged in are you to the local grapevine? Is there a localish SEN parents' group?

@Cinnamoncupcake unless DS also has PDA, it is worth asking specific questions around that. Some schools who understand other types of SEN are not brilliant with PDA.

@1995SENNDMUM making a normal application doesn’t make any difference to whether the LA will name a MS in an EHCP even if your preference is SS. The process of naming a school in an EHCP is completely separate from the normal admission process.

There may be 5 MS within 2 miles, but if you don’t make a normal application and don’t get an EHCP, then need to make a late application, you may not be allocated one of those schools. They may be oversubscribed and you may be allocated a not so good school a long way away. Not a problem if you would EHE if you don’t secure SS.

It is unusual for LAs to agree funding for a full deferred year at nursery for autumn born DC without EHCPs outwith Specialist Early Years Assessment Places for those undergoing/needing to undergo the NA process. Presumably this doesn’t apply, otherwise you wouldn’t have just said nursery because reception is also part of the early years foundation stage.

As an aside, DWP can be as unpredictable as LAs. Renewals can be uncertain even for DC who definitely still meet the criteria. Some have to appeal even for DC with complex needs.

My son attends this school and is waiting a asd / adhd assessment and they give him the support that he would receive if he was diagnosed, I’ve got a lot of experience with the school SENCo and join her coffee mornings with other parents of sen children at the school. My daughter is higher needs, diagnosed asd with a pda profile but would be fine at this school if she had a full time 1-1, I think the headteacher just doesn’t want to use any of the school funds but I have spoken with the SENCo at nursery and she said its not for the headteacher to decide that it’s the LA.

Yes we definitely would go with EHE over mainstream if it comes to it.
Yes I thought it was strange it was possible given he's an autumn birthday but apparently they ve done it a handful of times in the past, and those kids were able to then start in reception rather than year 1.
We re waiting on an ASD diagnosis which is being dragged out, but multiple SALTs have implied that we should be prepared that he could fall into one of those autistic children that never "become fully verbal" and to take a total communication approach so if he ended up in a class with different aged children with a deferal then can't foresee issues.

I have seen some ridiculous DLA decisions before so I know there's a chance it could go wrong next time but if he's still non verbal and his global developmental delays keep gaining the bigger gap as they have done. Then I d be quietly confident we d not lose an MR if the wrong decision was made by the DWP.

That's true but you will have to take a view at some point if you want DD to spend 7 years at a school where the head is at worst actively hostile and at best, somewhat ableist.

There is no way the character of the Head won't affect the process or delivery of the support at all. But they are a known known and could leave of course.

Personally I chose a school in large part because the Head is a decent person who doesn't try to under support or manage out SEN kids.

But I work for him so know that for sure.

It's hard!

Of course you could apply for that school through regular admissions (you'll probably have to) and then if it doesn't go well, persuade or use tribunal to force the LA to name a different one.

Time is on your side here actually given that EHCP naming a school can easily take 2 years start to finish (because of tribunal waits).

Sorry, that was for @Cinnamoncupcake.

@Phineyj
The headteacher is nice but I find she acts like she’s knows about sen when really she doesn’t, the teachers on the other hand are brilliant with the kids with additional needs. The foundation teacher makes a good effort with her daily so she is already familiar with her.
Ive applied for a school place through the normal admissions but I’ve also just been accepted for the EHCNA and the paediatrician is pushing for a ehcp to be in place for next September too, so hopefully if it all goes to plan something should be in place in time. I think the PDA part is going to be an issue, most people don’t know what it is or how to treat a child with pda, especially in schools. It’s also hard to state a setting when they are only nearly 4, I know foundation stage won’t be to bad but when she gets to year 1 things may change completely.

@BrightYellowTrain
I never really thought about my son possibly having pda, he displays adhd more than anything but my daughter also had some similar traits to him. I have been searching for schools that recognise pda autism but unfortunately in my area I haven’t managed to find any. There is a coffee morning coming up with the school SENCo, I’m going to ask her face to face about pda and see how much she knows, I know she will train herself up once she knows my daughter has it but it’s nice to see how much they know first

My daughter has PDA and if she is well regulated and the majority of her needs are met, she can manage ok in a mainstream school (she's year 7 currently so fingers crossed).

So PDA can be situational / depend on the strength of personal relationships in my experience.

Schools do seem to find it a bit of a bogeyman though and it is awkward with it not being in the DSM.

Teachers who think they know lots about SEN can be annoying.

I knew little about SEN before having DD but it's the parenting experience that's informed my teaching rather than the other way round.

No school will be perfect but it's good to do your research and keep an open mind.

Thats so reassuring to read, there is so many threads about children with pda struggling in schools and now being home schooled, my daughter was only diagnosed 2 weeks ago so im still learning. I know she is hard work in nursery but they have been really supportive for her need I just hope it continues into primary school 🤞