EHCP support thread no. 4

[Phineyj]

We've nearly filled the thread again, so here's a new one. Welcome everyone: newcomers, people stuck in the process; battle-hardened veterans of many years...

Here are links to previous threads:

EHCP support thread - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4834986-ehcp-support-thread

EHCP support thread no. 2 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/4989146-ehcp-support-thread-no-2

EHCP support thread no. 3 - www.mumsnet.com/talk/special_educational_needs/5077140-ehcp-support-thread-no-3

For breach of statutory timescales, you need to go down the JR route. Not the normal complaints process. The timescales of normal complaints process aren’t a suitable remedy for breach of the statutory timescales. And going down that route can actually be counterproductive because you then acknowledge there is an alternative remedy and JR is a remedy of last resort. You need to email the DCS threatening JR. If that doesn’t work, you need a pre-action letter.

@BrightYellowTrain thanks, have emailed both!

@handmademitlove after I got the EP report, we got a decision to issue 5 days later, after chasing the caseworker. Our LA were also behind timescales.

Had a small victory this week in that we were both assigned an EP and she will be doing a full cognitive assessment (because the tribunal ordered it the agency are going to do it and then just bill the LA even though they didn't ask for it). Also a comedy exchange where I told the LA we were seeking independent SALT reports and they said 'well yes we will consider those but we'll also consider our own SALT advice'.

They do not have any SALT advice.

Honestly.

@BrightYellowTrain I just heard back from the LA after I said there’s no need to compare the needs/provision with the local offer by carrying out additional NHS assessments.

They said ‘the additional assessments are not being requested to fully repeat all aspects of the assessment/ they are to cover any areas that the NHS practitioners feel have not been undertaken or explored via the independent reports/ they can also use the independent assessments to form their own advice/ the LA requires this to provide the tribunal with a balanced view around the provision required’.

Sorry, @Macramepotholder that shouldn't be funny but it is!

@Macramepotholder don’t be surprised if the LA suddenly decides they will do a SALT assessment either now or if you decide to appeal. Lots try to in order to discredit independent reports.

@Ponche so nothing to do with the local offer then. They should get their story straight. That reply is a standard LA viewpoint.

@BrightYellowTrain haha, exactly 😂. Shall I ask them to get back to me about what areas haven’t been explored? And exactly what assessments will be carried out and using which methods?

I suspect it will be news to the NHS teams that it’s not full assessments that have been requested. I will copy them into any emails so we’re all on the same page.

If they’re not saying the existing evidence is insufficient, could SENDIST still order that I allow the assessments to be carried out?

@Ponche could direct you to make DD available for an assessment and may well do so. LAs like to portray parents as obstructive and unreasonable, so be careful if you are going to refuse.

@BrightYellowTrain it’s frustrating but I will probably have to give in. Even if they back down now, they may well request additional assessments if I end up appealing section I.

Hi, I’m new here and new to the EHCNA and EHCP process, i was wondering if it is normal for the LA to call while waiting to see if they will do the EHCNA to ask extra questions and what school setting your hoping to get your child in to?

So LA have responded to stage 2 complaint to say that it is not within the power of the Council to tell CAMHS to do an assessment. Hmm...... no mention of the other requested assessments. And surely that is exactly what they should commission them to do in relation to EHCNA?

I despair..... now to decide whether to go to LGO or await the decision first? They are clearly not going to do any further assessments and the EP was clear that they should refer to specialists. So do I wait the decision whether to assess or not and see how good the draft is if they do agree to issue?

Small moan from me.

The Neurology service somehow faffed around and wasn’t able to provide advice and information in time for DS’ EHCNA. His assigned co ordinator has already extended the deadline twice but I’m tired of waiting when all Neurology would probably do is upload his most recent clinical report!

We should get a decision by the end of the week as to whether the LA will issue or not. I just want the plan to be finalised now because the longer this drags on, the longer he isn’t in nursery. He’s only 2.5 years old but I really wanted him in nursery at 2. Grrrrr. So annoying to extend the deadline twice just for Neurology to not submit anything

@MinnieTruck can you contact neurology yourself if it is the consultant you usually see?

@handmademitlove the LA is right, they can’t force CAMHS to respond. They don’t have the power to force them. They can, however, request advice and information from them. As a public body, CAMHS must respond within 6 weeks. And if the LA genuinely can’t seek such advice within the timeframe from the NHS, they should commission an independent assessment.

As an aside, you should be more specific in your request. If you say CAMHS, it could be anyone from CAMHS (e.g. a band 2 support worker). Instead, you should say psychiatrist or clinical psychologist (or the title of whoever you would like the LA to seek advice from).

@Cinnamoncupcake it can be normal in some cases.

@BrightYellowTrain this was in respect of a specific request to seek advice from the service who kicked her off the waiting list after gathering a lot of information. Except that they said they had no information to share.

And I am pretty sure that the LA has a service agreement with the other agencies (salt, ot) to support EHCNA requests for information. So that service agreement should specify assessment where needed, not just if they are already known to service? Because we know that is not a sufficient response!

Not all LAs have SLA covering CAMHS requests during EHCNAs. A SLA still couldn’t force CAMHS to assess, though. The LA can request advice and information but they can’t force them to reply appropriately. Any enforcement wouldn't be by the LA themself.

The onus would be on the LA to commission advice and information from someone else if they genuinely couldn’t get the information from CAMHS.

@BrightYellowTrain and there lies the problem. Our LA sends out requests for information with no expectation that they will get anything back. From what I hear, they almost always rely on the EP report and refuse to commission any independent reports, even where it is obviously needed.
They seem to get away with it most of the time.
I am waiting to see if they will agree to issue. Then we can discuss the content!

Our LA sends out requests for information with no expectation that they will get anything back.

This isn’t just your LA. This is completely normal. It is also normal for LAs to focus on the EP report. And it is normal for them to try to get away with not commissioning advice and information from someone else when they can’t get the information in-house/via the NHS. It is also normal for professionals to try to get away with inadequate replies. Parents can, in theory, enforce the law, but many decide not to because it doesn’t guarantee a watertight report or that the LA will actually pay attention to it. This is even more of a problem with CAMHS than it is with SALT and OT.

@handmademitlove I contacted DS’ Epileptic Nurse and she basically said they wouldn’t really say much other than writing a seizure plan for when he starts nursery. We’ve got about 10 different reports from different professionals so I’m just going to go with what we’ve got. A seizure plan alongside the EHCP once he starts nursery sounds good imo

@MinnieTruck will the seizure plan be in the form of an Individual Healthcare Plan (known as an IHCP or IHP)? That is what you want DS to have in addition to the EHCP.

@BrightYellowTrain I have no clue actually! It was just mentioned briefly via email. Would that be solely written by the Epileptic Nurse or would that be written by the Nurse and the nursery together? I’m just wondering what the process of an IHP is

@MinnieTruck best practice is for the IHP/IHCP to be written in conjunction with you, DS’s medical team, and the nursery. In practice, many are written without collaboration - sometimes by the health care team or the 0-19 nursing service (or whatever your area calls that team) and for those with less complex medical needs, sometimes by the school.

@MinnieTruck best practice is to arrange a meeting with the specialist nurse and someone from the school once you know where he is going. It is also an opportunity for the nurse to explain everything and for school to ask any questions regarding care and emergency procedures. That way everyone understands what is practical and what is necessary. Do push them to do this before he starts!

Welcome @Cinnamoncupcake what did you tell them?

Thank you lovely, i told him that I wasn’t sure what options are available for her needs but she would definitely need a full time 1-1 and a secure environment, I left that call thinking I’ve messed it up but they’ve accepted her EHCNA straight away, she was diagnosed with autism with a pda profile 2 weeks ago, she’s nearly 4 so she will be starting school sept 2025, we are still awaiting the report from the paediatrician but they have been told of diagnosis and that the paediatrician has said she will need a ehcp in place for September, do you know what happens within the assessment period?