New Year No Cry Sleep Solution Thread

[BertieBotts]

Does anyone want to join me in going through the whole book of the No Cry Sleep Solution and doing it properly, like a New Year's resolution type thing? (I am happy to start a week or few into the new year if people need time to sort things out first, get a copy of the book, etc)

I ask because the first time I read the book, I was quite sleep deprived and frustrated and looking for quick solutions, and didn't really realise that it's not so much a book of suggestions as a process to go through which helps change your thoughts as much as your behaviour surrounding sleep. I did the sleep logs, and then DS was ill, and then it was Christmas and we went away for a week, and I just felt it was pointless starting anything new after all that so I probably need to do the sleep logs again before I start so that I have a better comparison. But as a bonus I already have the different suggestions from chapter 4 summarised with page numbers which should be helpful.

Does anyone want to join me?

hi Bertie and MrsJuan,

Yup, epic just about describes it! the thing that bugs me is why is it all so changable - the night before he'd loved holding his lamb and projector sent him to sleep, but last night lamb was flung away in disgust and projector had no effect (even though he kept pointing at it for me to put it on?!? Although he then pointed at the lampshade and door handle so ). And yes, I was hopelessly close to crying myself (plus shaking with cold as no dressing gown on and seeing odd funny flickery things cos so tired) by the time he went to sleep!

No, no tv upstairs and bathroom upstairs. Although if it meant he'd sleep I'd probably consider remodelling the house right now! lol

Oh well... mrsjuan - glad you're having some succes andif the dummy works then I'd definitely keep using it!

Bertie sorry, no advice, but (hugs) anyway!

confused & others -do you find that when they sleep better you still wake up when they usually do? Whenever we get a rare good night I always find myself jerking awake in a big 'where is she?' panic!

Bertie I found that when I started putting DD to bed at 7ish rather than 10ish (because she was getting tired at that time, not because I particularly wanted to get her into a routine) she definitely saw it as a nap for the first week or so - she would wake up lovely and refreshed after about an hour and not be ready to go back to sleep for another hour or so after that. It did work eventually though - she was only 4 months though so it's probably different for older ones.

leeloo - yes - it's so changeable isn't it. That's why I'm not getting too excited about a couple of better nights - I suppose that's why the NCSS encourages you to take a longer view of it.

That is encouraging to know that they adjust to the new bedtime and stop seeing it as a nap after a while I will stick with it. At least I get a couple of hours' break (or sleep) in the evenings now.

mrsjuan - no! Her sleep is so variable that there's no 'normal' time for a wake up so I don't think I've got into the habit of waking up at a particular time. I always squint at the clock trying to guess from how awful I feel how early it is!

Oh, on the dummy. I agree with others. If DD slept all night surrounded by five dummies, I wouldn't give a stuff. I think that the removal is more because of the problem giving them back all the time. If you've weathered that, I'd embrace it!

Hi everyone. Glad to hear some success stories - and we must all remember that this is a slow process, not a quick-fix... although it is hard, as you want results when you put in hard work. When you don't see results straight away it's tempting to just go back to old ways.

I agree with everybody concerning the dummy - if you don't want dd to have one Mrs Juan I'd try and tackle that at a later date, but just stay with it if it means more sleep for the time being.

Bertie, I'm sure that others are right that the nap will eventually become bedtime - sounds like you're doing good stuff anyway.

We've done two nights of PPO and tried to put dd in cot. First night, when she finally stopped resisting PPO I put her in the cot and she screamed, so I tried sleeping with her but leaving a much wider gap between us so she couldn't feel me (chucked dh out!). This was a success in that her sleep wasn't any worse or better. Last night, PPO took a while again but I finally put her down in her bedside cot, eyes awake but droopy and she fell straight asleep ... miracle, never happened before. She had two hours good sleep in her cot, then woke and I couldn't get her to go back in there and the night was worse - hourly waking from that point on. But she did sleep in her cot. She can do it! Even if it takes a month of this, I just want her in there at least for evenings. Must keep trying....yawn!

Good luck for tonight everyone

Thank you for the dummy feedback. I'm not dead against her having one altogether - it has often come in useful. It's just that she does seem to wake up just because it's fallen out of her mouth..but yes, she seems to be getting the hang of grabbing it and replacing it so that's fine for now.

My mum says that I used to go to bed with one in my mouth, one in each hand and a couple floating round the cot .

Hope everyone has a good night tonight.

Good news is that DH got home from work (nights) I handed the children over and went to bed for a couple of hours, thank goodness.

Been out in the ice for playgroup and supermarket, so everyone has had some fresh air and a change of scenery. Plan for tonight is to let DS sleep in travel cot and me on settee, I think what ruined last night was a - I tried him in his cot and he never forgave me! and B) teething pain, he settled after nurofen so I feel stupid I didn't give him any earlier on.

Good luck for tonight everyone, getting near bedtime. Going to bath the mucky pups in a mo.

Tonight went really well, I think the key is dinner before 6, and only one nap during the day.

Unfortunately I didn't change DS' nappy before bed and he was wet at about 3am so I changed it, was too dark to find new dry trousers to put on so I just tucked him under the covers, unfortunately he hates covers and rolled out, woke up cold and now is wide awake I think he thinks it's morning! I was getting seriously annoyed with him so decided to come downstairs where he can play harmlessly in the playpen and hope that when I take him back up to bed he will sleep until 10 or 11. I hope this doesn't screw up the nice pattern we had. I really must keep a spare pair of pyjamas near the bed!

Glad you had a (partly) better night Bertie. We did too, slightly less wakings, I didn't feed him on one of them(!) just a cuddle back to sleep, and settled quite well each time.

Good job too as I'm working today. Did give of dose of ibuprofen for the teething at 10.30pm ish, seemed to help.

Hi everyone, glad to hear some good news out there. Bertie, sounds like bedtime is much better now - I expect as that settles down, the rest of the night will improve too.

Confused, thanks for all the tips for everyone- you're full of ideas!

We have had too awful nights (apart from early evening the first night), I think because we've been trying to put her in her cot, she then cries loads (absolutely No Cry seems impossible!) and gets so tired I think it affects the rest of her sleep. last night I kept trying with the PPO and then lowering her into co-sleeper but after 2 hours of it, I just wanted her to get some sleep so gave in, fed her to sleep, and cuddled her all night (oh dear, no perseverance - but it felt good ). But she woke more than hourly throughout last night, up at five for the day. AAARRRGGGHH!

I think tonight I'm just going concentrate on PPO but keep her in bed, then move away from her so she is sleeping 'on her own' but in a familiar bed. I'm not sure what to do about leaving her though - have started a thread about this.

Have a good day people

Great to hear that some of you are really getting into the NCSS and having some success. We've not really started with it yet - I'm trying to work out which things might work for us

I think I jinxed myself with saying that DD's sleep problems are minor the other day...it's been going downhill since then!

I did a sleep log the night before last:

8pm Asleep feeding, put in cot.
11.15pm Awake crying, feed to sleep 20mins (3.15hrs)
11.36pm Awake crying, cuddled to sleep in cot 10mins (1 min!)
1.45am Awake crying, feed to sleep 20 mins (2hrs)
4.15am Awake crying/chatting, feed to sleep 30mins (2.10hrs)
4.50am Awake crying, brought into bed with us & cuddled to sleep 10mins (5mins!)
7am Awake for the day (2hrs)
Total sleep 9 hours 25 mins.

Usually only 2 wakings, both to feed, and sleeps later in the morning. Hmm.
Last night was kind of worse and better - she woke 4 times between 8pm and 1.30am, when I gave in and brought her into bed with us - she then slept for 4 hours straight

I need to really think about which NCSS bits to use. I think naps need sorting, as she's very random with them and they are all 'micronaps'. She NEVER naps longer than 40 mins unless in the car. Over the past couple of days I've watched her and when she wakes she goes straight from fast asleep to wide awake, so not sure how the Pantley idea for getting naps to be longer would work . I'm thinking I'll have to just drive or walk her in her pushchair to get her to sleep at the times I choose for naps.

As for an earlier bedtime...she has been going down a bit earlier the past few days, and it has resulted in earlier waking in the morning - I just can't face her being up for the day any earlier so I think we'll stick with 8pm bedtime.

She already has a bedtime routine, so we don't need to change anything there.

So probably going for:

1. PPO
2. Daily routine
3. Naps

That doesn't really seem enough to me to really make any difference. I'm not feeling full of confidence I must say - perhaps I need to read the book a bit more and try to choose some more.

How many 'solutions' are you all trying?

ps. sorry for very long post when haven't been on for a couple of days - am struggling to get time to type (without little fingers in the way!) and have been thinking things over a lot.

Hello all just saw this in active convos!

Have heard of this book and might buy it - what is the min baby age you can do it for though?

Thanks and sorry to crash in like this!

Imsonottelling - no minimum age, although the book is split into babies who are under and over four months.

As predicted, a good night was followed by a bad one. Too depressed to list it all .

shanti - there are a couple of things the book suggests. The first one is like you said, keep walking, driving, whatever it takes for a nap of the length you want when you want it. The idea is that you are building a pattern. The other idea is have you tried the thing where you disturb them about 10 mins before they always wake up (jiggle and bounce the matress). The idea is that this helps them pass through the wake up without that 'ping. I'm up' effect.

Thanks confused. So 6 months is fine...

Shanti - does she sleep on you? If so, I found one way to lengthen the naps (and have a lovely lazy few days) was just to sit down with her + a book or laptop & let her have her nap on me. The, when she started to stir I could instantly settle her back off and this seemed to get her into the habit of sleeping for longer.

We had another ok night last night in the end, although it took nearly 2 hours to get her to go to sleep in her cot. She wasn't upset - she just kept nearly dropping off but then waking herself up again & then we had to start all over again! But once she was asleep at about 9 she didn't wake up again until 3.45am (woohoo!) and that was only for a quick cuddle. Then again at 5.30am at which point she came in with us for a bit until we got up at 7 for her milk (which she refused as usual!)

She needed quite a lot of help to get to sleep tonight though so I'm not counting on a repeat performance.

Hi all,

Last night wasn't great again - Up from 10.30-12.30 then 5.30-6.15!

But today we met friends at soft play in the morning so rather than napping from 10.30-1.30(ish) he had 2.15-4.15 (we woke him up then). He seemed to go down better this evening - was dozy on me then leapt up, so I fed him again then put him in his cot with a new glowbug thing (wretched thing plays for about 45 seconds, but he likes it and it distracts him from standing up) then re-set music and nightlight and ran away quickly!

Was expecting to hear squalls but (touch wood) I think he's gone to sleep as that was 40 mins ago and all seems peaceful!

If it is a better night then I'll have to think about changing his naptime.

Well I got home tonight about 9.15 after work and was v pleased that DH had managed to get him to sleep at about normal bedtime without a feed

He woke shortly after, had a feed and back to sleep now. Fist time he has gone to sleep at night without me.

Just got to work on the rest now

Am going to try to not feed him at every waking tonight and see how it goes.

My "dinner before 6" theory has been proven again - went out to meet my sister in town, DS fell asleep about 5ish and I didn't get home until gone 6. He is still awake (and hysterical )

Oh no, poor you! Hope DS's alseep for you now.

Hi everyone, seems like there are some successes so far (however minor!), it's reassuring. Well done everyone.
After having 'properly started' I stopped... call it laziness! Gonna crack on this weekend while DH is home.

We had our weigh in... He's gained!! Gained an actual normal amount too, not just a couple of ounces. So so pleased. Now I don't feel as 'tied to the boob' as I did before as I know that he's getting plenty of calories, although I guess our frequent night feeds count a lot towards that.

Is anyone else a slightly reluctant co-sleeper? I'm not sure what to work on first, the self settling and longer sleep periods or getting him to sleep in the cot. I don't have the energy to do both, although do you think that'd be best? He wakes around 10-12 times a night and has his longer periods of sleep in the early hours, generally between 1-3 and then 3-5... perhaps... on a good night.

On a positive note naps are going well with walking him in the pram, and I'm losing weight with the miles I trudge in the snow!

I've also stolen this link from another thread. DS is far too young to try it, and it's not a No Cry fix, but I like some of the ideas like 'paying' them for a good night (extra play, cuddles etc in the day). Might see if it works but as DS is only coming up to 5 months (and we never have a good night) I don't think he'd get it.

Changing The Sleep Pattern In The Family Bed

Another bad night for us. Up for 1 1/4 hours at 2:30 and up for the day at 6:30. Not as bad as some of you, but bad enough!

Ginger - I'd be inclined to try the stuff for longer sleeping in bed with you I think, but that's just gut instinct.

Has everyone read the chapter on Sleep Theory (Starts P41), and the bit starting on page 89 about "Get Yourself Ready"? (Online copy here)

If you haven't read them yet it's definitely worth doing so. I am going to reread them now if DS will let me!

Another fairly poor night here, settled off fine but woke at 1030pm for an hour or so, then a good sleep til 4, hourly wakings from then on.

Will have another look at the sleep theory bertie, I think he mostly just doesn't self settle at all.