New Year No Cry Sleep Solution Thread

[BertieBotts]

Does anyone want to join me in going through the whole book of the No Cry Sleep Solution and doing it properly, like a New Year's resolution type thing? (I am happy to start a week or few into the new year if people need time to sort things out first, get a copy of the book, etc)

I ask because the first time I read the book, I was quite sleep deprived and frustrated and looking for quick solutions, and didn't really realise that it's not so much a book of suggestions as a process to go through which helps change your thoughts as much as your behaviour surrounding sleep. I did the sleep logs, and then DS was ill, and then it was Christmas and we went away for a week, and I just felt it was pointless starting anything new after all that so I probably need to do the sleep logs again before I start so that I have a better comparison. But as a bonus I already have the different suggestions from chapter 4 summarised with page numbers which should be helpful.

Does anyone want to join me?

Yes - the sleep theory bit makes a lot of sense. I really can't believe how much difference it's made having DD falling asleep in the cot rather than being rocked. I'm not sure if it's coincidence that it's coincided with her being able to put her own dummy back in or if the two are somehow linked but it's really cut down on the number of times I've had to go and settle her.

I'm still rocking / walking her to sleep for her daytime naps though because I want to make sure she gets enough sleep.

What is everyone doing about keeping their babies the right temperature during this cold weather? I am always worried that she's too hot or cold. She often feels a bit chilly when she comes in with us in the morning and I wonder if that's part of the reason she's waking up. She's already got more covers than she's 'supposed' to have though.

Well, I think we're having successes here in that DS seems to be settling himself - albeit with music etc on. He was up twice last night - 12 and 3.30 - the latter he was fed twice then I left him in cot with his glowbug and he was chatting for ages but didn't cry and eventually went to sleep on his own.

Tonight I left him awake in his cot again so hopefully all this self-settling will pay off in the end.

mrsjuan I'm worrying about that too and my parents (who stayed over last night) were strongly pushing that I used extra blankets (at the moment he has 2.5 tog grobag, woolly jumper and 1 blanket if v cold). They thought I should get him a duvet or put extra trousers over his babygro - it does get down to about 14 degrees in his room... not sure what to do about it though...

ginger you could always focus on the sleeping longer stuff, but also do some 'fun playtime' in the cot while you do that, so you are preparing the ground for moving on to the cot when sleep is better

mrsjuan my solution to the cold weather problem is to put a small electric radiator in DD's room (she's only little though and no chance of getting out of her cot, but might not be a safe thing to do for older ones). We have a baby monitor which shows the temp in her room and I check it every time she wakes up. She also has more clothing on than she's 'supposed' to for the temperature, and my mum moans at me to put even more on too .

As for us, well, we've had a couple of OK nights (only 2-3 wakings and not coming in with us too early), and we had started the NCSS stuff (routine, PPO etc etc) THEN...we've just spent the evening in A&E as DD had a choking incident She is absolutely fine now - but it was horrible and is related to a problem she had at birth and so I'm pretty stressed that it might happen again / mean more medical intervention to prevent it happening again. She seems to have forgotten all about it now and has fed and gone to bed fine (although about an hour and a half late, with no bath). I guess I can continue with all the routine stuff but probably best to leave PPO for a couple of days as she might well need the extra comfort.

Argh. I'm off to bed!

leeloo1 and mrsjuan Can I ask how you got them to start to self settle in the cot? I am going a bit demented with it all at the moment and have decided to try harder - I am on days off from Thursday til Wednesday after so I am going to try properly at getting him to sleep in the proper cot, and self settling is a huge problem for me him!

shanti how horrible for you and DD Hope you both have a peaceful night to recover.

Not looking good for tonight for us - I've had to go into her 4 times already - I knew I shouldn't get too complacent

shanti that sounds awful, hope you have a good night tonight to recover!

moaningminnie Well after saying it'd all gone well with him self-settling tonight it went pear-shaped cos the neighbours were hammering and woke him up so I fed him and he went to sleep. Cute (but not following the program)!

But... we did a bit of playing in the cot so he'd be happy there, but in general I've found that its a case of getting enough stuff that he's happy to lie down (rather than leaping up and standing chewing end of cot and howling!) and then he falls asleep cos still.

• The glow worm thing is good cos he likes to hold/watch it. It'd be better if it lasted for longer but he strokes it when it finishes.
• Sleepy music to listen to
• Projector thing on ceiling - seems to work well in conjuntion with glow worm as he holds one and watches other
• Soft lamb toy - I've been having it with us when we watch Waybuloo, read bedtime story & feed so he finds it comforting in the night.

Oh and also, I've found when I put him in he goes waaaaah - esp at night but its a token 'I've been put down' protest rather than a real cry and if I leave him he settles himself.

Is that any help? Apart from anything else he seems more ready to settle himself than he has in the past (doesn't seem to feed to sleep much anymore etc) so it could well be that ts all down to him and not much to do with anything i've done at all!

Is that any help?

Oh yes thank you, just wanted some pointers on where to start.

I think I basically did a soft version of controlled crying with DD about this age but she was/is completely different, DS is more clingy, breastfeeding, and ahtes his cot so much... he is asleep in the travel cot in living room at the moment

But I am getting ready to Do Something
Thursday.
The countdown begines.

Plan so far - feed in bedroom (after bath and story with DD as usual.)
Put him in cot with quiet music on and a soft toy or taggies blanket.
Lay him back down 1000000 times til he gives up and goes to sleep.

Hows it looking??? I suspect the initial putting down will be manageable, it's the waking later and going back into the cot I'm going to struggle with.

moaning I think the thing with NCSS is that it doesn't matter if you are taking baby steps. It's not a 'you have to crack everything at once' type of plan. You could think about just dealing with the first sleep of the night and then working on the others.

That's pretty much what we've been doing. I've been focusing on daytime naps and getting DD to go off to sleep on her own in her cot for the first sleep of the night. Last night we had a token two minutes of crying when I put her down (actually, more whining, if you see what I mean). I went back in after a minute, repeated the "nighty night DD" that I've been trying to develop as a key word and left. One minute later (I was watching the clock!) she was asleep. Not quite no cry, but two minutes is good enough for me!

The big news is that, after a couple of bad nights, we had a good one. I heard DD wake up and give one cry twice during the night (think it was 1:30 and about 4), but she went straight back to sleep again. I didn't get up to her until 5:45, when she had a feed and went back to sleep until 7:30. Am gobsmacked! Bad nights normally follow good, but for today, I'm a happy woman.

The settling herself off to sleep on waking is something she hasn't done for months and not something I'd been particularly working on that hard (although I had tried not to feed even if desparate if I knew she didn't need it). I can only think that that skill came from working on the first sleep. Now to teach her to use it consistently...

Did any of you see Nick Clegg's stuff in the news about Gina Ford? He was asked about her methods because he confessed he'd been up four times in the night with his youngest, who's 10 months. Anyone else wonder whether he/his wife might MN and be on the sleep threads with us!?

Wasn't too bad a night in the end, much relief! I think she was exhausted.

Managed to get out of bed at 7.30 this morning too (trying to be consistent!), and we are working on naps...at the moment she is being strongarmed into having a proper afternoon nap by my mum (cuddles her fiercely every time she dares to stir!).

Confused I think that I will just focus on self settling for the first sleep to start with too. It's just to easy to give up in the middle of the night, and too distressing when lots of sleep is lost if you keep having to go back to them! So I'm going to do the PPO technique for just the first sleep and see how it goes - but probably leave it till tomorrow to start that now as she's been a bit clingy today after her traumatic evening yesterday.

moaning I've been really surprised at how well she's taken to settling herself. Basically what we do is go through all the stages that I used to do:
bath, dressed, bottle, dummy, cuddle and song

but then instead of rocking her I put her in her cot, keep my hands on her and carry on singing her song. If she cries and spits her dummy out I either let her put it back or give it back to her.

I was fully prepared for her to get upset and to have to keep picking her up and comforting her but she seemed to be fine and just falls asleep (eventually) quite peacefully.

The other thing I tried but which took a lot longer (nearly 2 hours) was to just let her wriggle around in her cot, play with her toys etc. (all in the dark) until she started to get grizzly then gave her her dummy (took a few times to get her to accept it) and again, amazingly she fell asleep.

So I'm cheating a bit with the dummy - and it sounds tricky as your DS isn't happy in his cot in the first place, but I think your basic plan sounds good - just be ready to comfort him as much as is needed initially.

I wouldn't worry about the later wake ups yet - just concentrate on the first settling and you may well find that he doesn't need as much resettling anyway.

Right - I now have a problem that is definitely not mentioned in the book. For the last four nights DD has done a poo just as she's about to drop off to sleep so I then have to go back to the beginning and settle her down all over again - aghhhhh (that is a gritted teeth smile btw).

Confused - it is the first sleep of the night I am trying to crack really, as he is sleeping only in the travel cot in the living room at the moment I am on the sofa

Bit of good news though, I have been at work today, DH put him down for his nap after lunch a)awake and b)in his cot. He settled ok with no screaming and had a good sleep

Last night I really noticed DS falling back to sleep as soon as I picked him up, hardly took any milk over night. And his first tooth has just broken through so I am a bit hopeful things might improve soon.

mrsjuan we have a good pre bed routine in that they have a bath together, drink in the living room, then back upstairs for a story or three and then DD goes to sleep (2.9),the trouble is that then DS has BF in living room and sleep in travel cot. I used to leave him there til I was going to bed but he was consistently refusing to settle in the proper cot after late night feed. So I stopped trying

Minnie, could you not just put the travel cot in the bedroom instead of the 'proper' cot and let him sleep there? Sorry if there's an obvious reason for not doing this that I've missed.

Feel like we're having a bit of success as last night DS went back to sleep quickly both times he woke up in the night (ok he fed and had glowbug each time but he went back into cot awake each time and settled himself). Will have to see if this lasts!

Now I just need to work out how to get him to settle himself without needing any feeding/interventions... think that might be a harder issue.

Well, another reasonable night here. 1:30 wake which needed me- but I just walked in said "nighty night DD", hovered by the door for 30 seconds and she went back to sleep. Heard her waking and shouting/talking a bit a couple of times, got up for a feed at 5:15 and she went back to sleep to 7:30 again .

Moaning -I agree with Leeloo. Could the travel cot go in his room? Also, can't remember, but have you been doing playing in his cot during the day? That really helped us, even though DD didn't resist her cot as such, it definitely made her happier to be left alone there.

Leeloo - maybe water and the glowbug as a first step? It sounds like maybe you need to work out one of those gradual withdrawl plans. The one in the book starts with cuddling/feeding and then winds down. Could you start with those two things and gradually phase them out?

Shanti - sounds like a plan. The good thing about NCSS is you can pause, slow down, whatever you need in response to circumstances. Like when DD was sick and off solids, I basically fed at every waking.

I have to say that the biggest success thing for us has been the key word. I really hammered it home for about 2 weeks when DD was sleepy (even though I didn't want to talk then and wake her up!) and it does now seem to work to calm her down. I'd never have believed it if I hadn't tried it myself.

Good luck everyone.

Oops, this fell off the bottom of my threads I'm on! So just a little update.

Having a loose daytime routine is working really well, and even the waking at 9/10pm (because he thinks it is a nap) seems to be moving - the other night he woke at 11, but went to sleep as soon as I put him into his pushchair. It was a nice day, that - he got into his pushchair on his own in the afternoon and went to sleep without being strapped in, without me even being in the room!

The only problem is I am finding it hard to stick to the routine. Which has an effect on his sleep, and then I am tired, and don't want to do anything, which affects the routine... argh! I will make more of an effort. I can't remember when I did the first one but I think I will do another sleep log on Friday or Saturday because it must have been 10 days, and XP is having DS on Sunday - that is another challenge to work that into the routine.

Must stop posting sei-positively on here as it always jinxes us!

Last night he was up twice (think tummy issues as no poo yesterday and then massive dirty nappy this am) and needed lots of feeding & settling each time.

Then I had a hard time sleeping and this morning slept through the alarm clock and doorbell to miss the parent bringng her LO for me ti childmind. Haven't been looking after her for long so now look unreliable. Have offered to do a free day to make up for it but still feel awful and miserable!

Bertie I know just how you feel - so difficult to keep a semblance of a routine when you're knackered - all I want to do today is pull the duvet over my head, but its not going to happen...

Hope you all had better nights than us!

semi-positively even

No room for travel cot in the bedroom at the moment but will work on making room I think.

DH put DS down for a nap at 5pm today! He has only just gone to sleep at nearly 10pm I am not impressed with him. DH that is.

Not done much playing in cot, but he is happy to be in it awake while I have a shower, and has his daytime naps in it fine, its a mystery to me really. Only thing I can think of is that he hurts himself when standing up/bangs into the bars and gets more and more irate.

Had one of those fluke nights last night - he slept! From 10pm til 1.15, laid him back down and he went back to sleep

Til 6.45

I feel so much better. I know it was probably a one off but it was lovely all the same.

Hope everyone is doing ok today

That sounds good moaning. That's strange that he's happy in the cot in the day but not at night - no answers on that one

DD did pretty well las night. I had to go in to her a couple of times before we went to bed but then she slept until 1.30am. When I went into her she had go herself into a right pickle - all tangled up in her sleeping bag and blanket and thrashing about like an eel. She stopped crying as soon as I went in but she was still wriggling about, shaking her head, thrashing her arms etc. for ages. I had to almost pin her down to get her to settle off again

She slept ok after that though so I think I'll count it as a good night.

I think I need to do my 10 day log either tonight or tomorrow so hoping we'll see some positive changes.

Well done moaning you lucky thing

We're not really making much progress here, although last night was a bit better than usual - perhaps because I managed PPO for the first sleep of the night - I think?! I'm not entirely sure - I find it difficult to tell if dd is asleep or drowsy. Anyway, after about 10 attempts when she kept rooting she finally just went to sleep when I took her off - but she was practically asleep anyway as she was so exhausted by that time! Do you think that's OK?

Not really much closer to getting evenings back though - I did manage two hours downstairs two evenings ago . But I think it was a fluke - last night I was all looking forward to another evening with dh, TV and a glass of wine and she woke up four times just ten minutes after I'd come down. I wait till she seems sound asleep - I waited 45 minutes one time, but she seems to have a mummy radar and wakes as soon as I leave her. I managed to watch Neighbours on our freeview recorder in 3 10 minute instalments! (I know, sad!) I felt a bit down as it had been so lovely the evening before and I'm running out of ideas.

Naps also not much better she did have an hour and a half nap yesterday (first time in weeks!) but I didn't do anything different and I'm guessing that was fluke too. I try not to stress about naps - I know they're supposed to be important but I find it is much better if I just go with the flow.

Look forward to everyone else's updates. It's good to hear positive stories (even if I am jealous) as it motivates me to keep trying.

Moaning do you think he might be scared of the dark? Is there anything else that is different in the daytime and nighttime you can think of?

It seems since I have started trying to get this routine in place that his one dependable trait - the morning nap - has suffered, he fights it and won't sleep. Although it may be to do with not being able to watch CBeebies as my freeview box has died - not sure if it was just crap or whether DS' favourite game of flicking the wall switch on and off has done it. I have got Iplayer open on the laptop with this window open on the other side of the screen at the moment! It seems to be working though so hopefully it's just he's missing his nap cue rather than fighting it consciously.

I don't think it's the dark Bertie, I keep the living room dark in the evening once he's gone to sleep, except for the TV on quietly, and its pretty dark in the corner where the travel cot is.

I leave the ensuite light on at night and door ajar so bedroom not pitch black either.

Just one of those things I suppose. Bet we're going to have a terrible night here, esp as I'm at work tomorrow. He only had one nap today, about 1.5 hrs though, right before lunch.

Hope everyone has an OK night

Yes but is it that particular room being dark he doesn't like - could be an odd shaped shadow or something. TBH I don't find light affects DS' sleep at all so I would be tempted to try leaving the light on even though it seems counterintuitive!

Not a bad night here (hurray) up twice but settled quickly. Think possibly up a 3rd time but I was too tired to move and he went back to sleep on his own (but might have dreamt that).

Think the biggest difference has been sticking a pyjama top that I've worn at his head end so when I put him down it smells if me (nice!) - it might be coincidence but the night I'd taken it out to wash was the really bad 1 this week. When I checked on him as I got up this am he seemed to be cuddling it - bless.

Bertie I've no idea tbh
Not a terrible night here, but not good either. Woke for feed 12ish, 4 ish, and had dummy replaced 5ish and up for day at 6.45.

Still better than some nights we've had recently I suppose.

Tonight I am starting my week of trying to teach him to sleep in the cot. Going to start bedtime in good time and try to put him down in cot drowsy but awake, will sort of pick up/put down I think.

If I have terrible nights I can go to bed for an hour or two each morning when DH gets in from work.

If I can crack sleeping in the cot I will look at reducing night feeds hopefully, but he does need to catch up a bit now I'm at work some days so not aiming for night weaning as such.

Hope everyone is ok