New Year No Cry Sleep Solution Thread

[BertieBotts]

Does anyone want to join me in going through the whole book of the No Cry Sleep Solution and doing it properly, like a New Year's resolution type thing? (I am happy to start a week or few into the new year if people need time to sort things out first, get a copy of the book, etc)

I ask because the first time I read the book, I was quite sleep deprived and frustrated and looking for quick solutions, and didn't really realise that it's not so much a book of suggestions as a process to go through which helps change your thoughts as much as your behaviour surrounding sleep. I did the sleep logs, and then DS was ill, and then it was Christmas and we went away for a week, and I just felt it was pointless starting anything new after all that so I probably need to do the sleep logs again before I start so that I have a better comparison. But as a bonus I already have the different suggestions from chapter 4 summarised with page numbers which should be helpful.

Does anyone want to join me?

And also I just wanted a quick moan. DS is with his Dad at the moment and I would have gone back to bed but am stuck waiting for a delivery that will come any time between 12 and 6, arranged by my Dad! Sod's Law

Can't you put a sign on the door that says "Please knock loudly, I am in" and then go back to bed? I did that a few times when I was pregnant and on maternity leave.

Mistletoe Yes I think getting up earlier would help the naps but that extra hour or so in bed makes up for the distrupted sleep. I have to get up tomorrow and the next day at 7 as I'm childminding so I'll see if that makes a difference.

DS hasn't settled to sleep yet. He is still crying. We have been up and down trying to help him settle and I have feed him again. sigh.

Hmm - I'm not sure if I've had a success or not tonight. I somehow managed to get DD to fall asleep in her cot and did PPO to get her dummy out (took 7 attempts) and went to have a bath feeling quite smug.

Half way though bath she started crying so I finished washing my hair (about 30 seconds) quickly dried off (another 30 seconds) and went to her rescue...

...just in time to see her grab the dummy from where I'd left it in her cot, put it back in herself and fall back to sleep

Not sure where this leaves me really - is she going to be one of those babies who has to go to bed surrounded by dummies to grab in the night like I was?

Hey ladies,

Thanks, glad its not just me who thought the doctor was being off! (still though)

Reading NCSS again today definitely made me feel more organised tonight and having a big effort to put DS down awake felt like a plan rather than my usual 'OMG he's still not sleeping, when is he ever going to sleep' - lets hope it still feels like that at 2/3/4/5am whenever he's up! ;)

It took 3 goes to get him to stay down (he kept standing up and yelling when his light projector thing finished), so I kept going back and feeding/cuddling him and lying him back down again and giving him his new favourite toy lamb and on the 3rd go he started chatting to the lamb and went off to sleep!

To those who were wondering about trying to get their LO to accept a comforter - I really tried to get DS to have 1 at about 12 months and he just wasn't interested, but I kept leaving some soft toys in his cot and he's just started playing/interacting with them!

Oh and Febes I've been up at 6.30 to be ready to childmind yesterday and today - so glad tomorrrow its a 'day off' so I'm hoping DS lets me get a bit of a lie-in!

Hope everyone's LOs have a good night tonight!

We had a slightly better night last night, he slept from 9ish til 12.30am, feed and back to sleep, same again at 3.30ish, 4.45ish, and 6 ish ( I had to get up then)and 7ish. Up for the day at 8am happy. Sounds worse than it was as they were just quick comfort feeds and we both went back to sleep straight after.

Last night I took the path of least resistance, let him sleep in the travel cot all night and I slept on sofa from the 12.30 waking onwards - DH was downstairs with him til then. Also tried him on a small pillow which he seems to like.

And a small breakthrough, it was my 2nd day of back at work, I brought some EBM home with me I had expressed at work and he drank it from a beaker with a straw

May camp out on settee again tonight, its v comfy and would rather have the sleep than be in bed...

And bertie hope you got your parcel ok, I put a sign on the door a couple of times saying 'please knock loudly , husband asleep on nights'

DH nearly killed the poor delivery man til he realised it was all my doing [evil cackle]- he fair hammered the down door apparently, but I was waiting for new Dyson and had to go out.

I am v tempted to bring DS into bed sometimes, I think he would like it but he is very mobile and I would worry he would fall/crawl/walk off it and hurt himself/escape into the ensuite bathroom and drown in toilet etc!

Terrible night here. DS slept for 45 mins then took 2 hours to fall back to sleep. He went down just before 11 and then woke at 3 so came into our bed at that stage. He fed at 3 and 5.30 and slept in between. I had to get up at 7 but DH is still sleeping with DS upstairs .
Meanwhile DD who is a great sleeper normally woke at 11 and talked to herself for over an hour. She normally goes back to sleep herself so I left her to it but at 12.30 she was still chatting so I went up and got her and she came into our bed. She likes to stroke my skin softly so I had to hold her hand- so annoying!!. She eventually went to sleep. When DS woke up I got DH to take her up to her bed but she woke before 7 as well so her normall 14 hours was loads less. I wonder if she will nap today??
Its quite snowy here and I have 3 DCs as I'm CMing today so I don't think I want to venture out in it.
I hope your nights were ok.

Oh dear febes - but so cute your dd stroking your skin . We'll all get there though.

Bertie thanks for your idea about the pushchair - she does sleep in the pushchair well (but only when it's moving!). The thing is, she does settle well in bed in the evenings if I'm in bed with her so I don't really want to disrupt that too much. I'll try moving her into her co-sleeper cot first and if I have no luck with that, may well resort to pushchair!

We had an OK night last night, tried Pantley Gentle Removal for first sleep - took ages but she did eventually fall asleep without boob (from sheer exhaustion i think!). Tried it putting her in co-sleeper but she screamed so kept her in bed. I stayed with her but slept a bit further away so she can get used to not being too snuggled up against me. Will try that for a few nights then re-attempt cot.

My biggest hurdle is naps - I just cannot get her to have good naps. Just took her out in the snow in pushchair, she slept for about 30 mins but woke as soon as we got back - she always does this. I've tried walking for ages so she can stay asleep, but she still wakes after 40 minutes. Yesterday I rocked her and held her for her lunchtime nap - still woke after 40 minutes. And when she wakes, she's immediately wide awake - no drowsy gradual waking stage. She always smiles when I peek at her... I think she believes she's had a huge long sleep! I'm not going to push the issue too much - I'll have to accept that I can't make her go to sleep, I can only give her opportunities to sleep. It would be nice to have a bit of time in the day though.

Moaningminnie i'm not surprised you took the path of least resistance- I would too if I were working.

Bertie, how was bedtime last night?

Hi, I would have tried to join in properly earlier but DS is a bit clingy at the moment, he's poorly bless him.

These are our details and I'd welcome any suggestions with open arms (although at the momnt they're filled with a snuffly baby).
Baby's age: 4 1/2 months
Sleep location: My bed at night and pram for daytime naps
Feeding: BF and solids
Aims: 1) For him to sleep longer periods at night
2) For him to sleep in the cot and self soothe
3) To reduce night wakings to 2-3

We have a lot of background to our sleep issues... I was exclusively BFing and thought we were doing really well until his 3 week weigh in where we found he had lost weight. Went along to a BF group who were all smiles and 'don't start on that nasty formula', which I stupidly listened to. Meanwhile DS cried AAAALLLLLL DDDDAAAAAAYYY and we thought we had 'one of those babies' until 5 weeks when he still hadn't come anywhere close to his birth weight so we mix fed. I stopped going to the BF group as they'd make me cry with their 'no woman cannot BF' attitude. During this time DS did not sleep at all, he was too hungry but as soon as the bottles were introduced it was like having a different baby and he'd happily go 7pm to 4am then sleep through til 7am. Self settled and everything. All perfect until...

Fast forward 3 months and DS is now point blank refusing bottles and his weight is plummeting again. I tried and tried with cups/spoons/witchcraft (joke!) and so our sleep problems have returned. We've introduced things like very very milky sweet potato and banana to get the calories in him but his sleep in awful.

I know I haven't yet experienced close to what some of you have but I would like to get in early with managing it cos I'm going crazy. He has a set bedtime routine (feed/bath/naked kicking/skin to skin/feed/bed - in theory!) but will only fall aslep with a boob in his mouth or being very close to me. He'll then wake every 45 mins to 2 hours for a feed or a shush or just to make sure I'm there.

In desperation I've let him cry in his cot for an hour before but it was horrific. My DH is tougher than I am and is willing to leave him to cry but I can't. Also as we're having weight gain problems I feel I can't cut out night feeds and try and settle him without them. At a loss.

Sorry this is a bit ranty, sometimes I just need to get it off my chest. I worry about his feeding so much cos it impacts on everything. I've stopped going to baby groups cos it's such a nightmare feeding him out and I'm so tired. Everyone seems to cope with a smile on their face but I just can't.

On the plus side napping is ok, I take him out in his pram from 9am til about 10.30, then again at 1pm til 2.30 or 3ish and depending on how he's slept sometimes at 4 for half an hour so he's happy enough to have dinner.

Any ideas on feeding or sleeping? I'll read the thread more thoroughly and try and pick out bits too.

Thanks.

loopy

Not sure what page it is, but have you tried the 'disturb her a few minutes before she would normally wake' approach. Will she settle in her cot at all? If so, you could try it? It's meant to soothe them through the light phase so that they don't wake up (DD also does the wide awake instantly thing, but she doesn't have consistent nap periods, so haven't been able to try this one).

Hi there everyone,
For once, DD is having a nap! All snuggled up in her snowsuit in her car seat ready to go out in a few minutes - I spotted her yawning so got her in her outdoor stuff quick and as soon as I put her in her seat she dropped off. Result!

Nights over the past couple of days have been so-so. She has been going down at 8ish, waking for a quick cuddle about an hour later, then waking at 12.45 for a feed, then 4am for a feed. So far, so normal for her.
But then after her 4am feed she has refused to sleep in her cot...she goes down fine, seems to drop off but then wakes as soon as I'm snuggled back in bed and repeats the process until I give up and bring her in bed with us.

Am hoping that the NCSS book will arrive today so can start joining in properly.

Has anyone bought/considered getting a lambskin for the cot? I'm thinking about it because DD often startles herself awake again when she's just dropping off, and I think maybe a snugglier surface would help her...maybe!

DS is having a nap Have set DD up with paints and paper and I have a cup of tea so all is well for 10 minutes!

Not too bad a night here, quite a few wakings but no long awake spell, still in travel cot though

However he seems a bit better today as he has got a chest infection and it sounds better now, 1 day of antibiotics left.

Really wanted to take them to playgroup this afternoon but our street is just too icy to drive on, we're up north.

Am thinking of trying him back in the proper cot tonight now I'm not quite as exhausted. Maybe with a pillow. Will let you know how it goes.

Hi gingerbaby, we had weight loss problems initially too, I ended up topping up for a few weeks but then he fed ok once he was a bit bigger and stronger, I know how upsetting and worring it is. I think it also partly why I have put up with frequent night wakings and night feeds even though I know he probably doesn't need them really.

Sounds like an exhausting night febes, hope tonight is a bit better. Anyone else find that you don't tend to get 2 terrible ones in a row? Maybe they are trying to lull us into a false sense of hope

Hi moaningminnie, can I ask you a few questions about night feedings etc? How/when did you decide that he doesn't need them or needs fewer? I ask because sometimes DS really feeds well but other times he just wants comfort and a cuddle. As I don't know the difference I always try to feed him. Also we're in the 'regression to new born' and I think he's so excited by everything he won't concentrate on feeding during the day. At what age did you finish topping up? Did your DS feed every time he woke?

Everyone I know in RL with new babies seem to either have ones that do 8hour stretches or leave them to CIO, which I really don't agree with. It's nice to know there are people out there with the same problems that have the same thoughts about CC and CIO.

I think DS doesn't really need them because he is 12mo, eats like a horse, drinks lots of water and when I'm at home still has BFs 4+ x a day, and he used to have really sopping wet night nappies as he took a lot of milk in the night, but now just has normal wet nappies in the morning. He often goes to sleep after just a couple of minutes very half hearted suckling.

But I am still doing it! Have tried just a cuddle and dummy a couple of times,and it worked, but I just go on auto pilot I think.

I topped up from about 19 days, to * weeks, he went from 7lb6.5 birth weight to 6lb8. I gave formula to start with, 2-3oz 4 x day, then swapped them for EBM as I was able to express enough. Once he was sucking well I gradually reduced them til I stopped at 8weeks.

We then did BLW and he took to food massively. Can't get him to take cows milk at all though.

I was very upset about giving formula but it was needed in our case.

Sorry that was til 8 weeks

Oh gingerbaby that sounds really hard. I get really angry at bf "supporters" who just push the breastfeeding and demonise formula, their role is supposed to be to support mothers in the decision they feel is right for them, and if that be mixed feeding or formula feeding, that is fine! (I am training to be a bf supporter sometime soon - when the Children's Centre get back to me - and I promise I not spout any "evil formula" kind of lines )

shanti I found it interesting what you said about your DD falling asleep in her carseat (without movement) as DS is like that as well - he has been going mad or acting tired and I have put him into his car seat/pushchair while I get everything else sorted to go out and by the time I go back to him, he's asleep. I think it's because when he is tired he still wants to practice crawling and walking, and play etc, but he knows that when he is strapped in somewhere he can't do any of these things so he just relaxes and falls asleep.

Last night was okay. He had a 2 hour nap while he was with his dad so I didn't get any sleep during the day - I think I would have slept through it if I had put a note on the door. He went to bed at 6.30 and I went too, I got up at about 8 to have some toast and then he woke up about half an hour later and didn't go to sleep until 1 again, but it wasn't so bad as I'd had a bit of sleep and felt I could cope.

Tonight I managed to give him a bath! And we had dinner before 6 which was good too. He wanted to get down before I had finished eating so I put him in his pushchair in front of the Bedtime Hour and he watched most of it and then got fed up halfway through the story so I took him up to bed and tried feeding him, he was fairly calm but crawled off after a bit and wouldn't feed any more, so I have put him back in pushchair now and he seems happy. He burped on the way downstairs so am wondering if that was it and hoping he will go to sleep in the pushchair.

He was supposed to see XP today but he couldn't make it because of the snow so I have until Sunday before he sees him again which gives me a good few days to get the routine sort of in place and see how it's working.

Hey all,

Hurray! It was a much better night last night! He woke up once at 12.30 and fed twice (cried in between when I tried to put him down). The second time he pointed to his light projector thingy and so I turned it on and put him back in his cot and he watched it and went to sleep on his own.

He then slept til 7.30! So I had about 7 hours sleep and felt almost human today!

It took about 50 mins to get him to go down tonight (again he ended up in cot with light projector and music playing, but it took about 4 goes of each and BFing before he'd stay lying down calmly) so fingers crossed that its another good night!

gingerbaby I've never been any good at working out when DS just wants comfort/feeding either (prob why he's still BFing all night at 15 months) - I think when they're that little you're meant to try least intervention first, so try just to ssssh him, then cuddle if it doesn't work, then feed if all else failed! If its a sudden change from sleeping through, then you might find that after a growth spurt/new skill/teeth appearing he goes back to sleeping well - I really hope he does!

I seem to have a slightly different problem now - DS goes to bed beautifully and easily with no problems at 6/7pm, but wakes up 2-3 hours later and I can't do anything with him, he doesn't want to feed, play, eat, drink, sit quietly... he is happy to play with me, but I can tell he is tired as the slightest frustration sets off a meltdown He is stressed, I am stressed and it's not helping anyone! Any ideas on how I can convince him it's not a nap, it's night time?

I think he might have a load of teeth coming through as well but he doesn't seem to be in pain and don't want to give calpol unless necessary.

DS is awake. I have been feeding/rocking/cuddling him all bloody night but the second he is put down he is straight to his feet crying.

DD had half an hour of crying and shouting at 3.50am as well - I want to get up, I want cereal.

I have had possibly one hour of sleep, from about 12.30 til 01.30.

I am nearly fucking insane with it all right now, so am making a cup of tea and trying not to think about hellish today is going to be.

I don't know if it'll make a difference Bertie but when DS naps I leave the curtains open in the bedroom and at night I make it dark/dim. Not that I can really talk, for both naps and bedtime I have to get in the bed with him. Does mean I'm ploughing through some good books!

leeloo gotta say I'm jealous about the sleep! Well done.

I'm 'properly' starting today, using PPO to start then next week going to do some attempts in the cot. At the moment I'm too tired for the fuss of lifting him out and getting him back in when he wakes so it's easier when he's in the bed.

Is it ok to do one thing at a time or do you think it'd more effective if I went for the whole lot?

Seeing the HV today too so hopefully we've made progress with the weight.

Ok, I must have jinxed him or something after my happy post last night, cos he was up from 12 til 3.30. Not quite as bad as your night though Moaningminnie - I feel for you!

What is up with these babies? I feel like its similar to your situation BertieBotts where he'd happily be up and playing, although its about 4-5 hours after he's gone down... I think it can mean that they're overtired if they see those 1st few hours as a nap, but DS sleeps plenty in the day...

Night went like this:

12 - fed til nearly asleep, cuddled on shoulder, in cot, awake on feet screaming
12.10 - fed again - slightly less asleep - repeat cot bit
12.20 - fed half-heartedly - looking round whilst held - repeat cot bit
12.30 - even less interested in feeding - repeat cot bit
12.40 - wouldn't feed, pointed at light projector, so put that on, lay in cot but not happy
12.50 - projector finished, screaming in cot
1 - wouldn't feed, thrashed around whilst being held but screamed in cot
1.10 - music and light projector on, DS looking round room whilst held
1.20 - stuff on again, screaming in cot
1.30 - fed for couple of sucks, still wide awake
1.40 - same
1.50 - left him in cot with stuff on to see if he'd sleep without me while I folded laundry
2.20 - felt bad as he had tears streaming down face, fed for few mins more strongly but no sign it was making him sleepy
2.30 - downstairs watching Waybuloo {blush} - anything to make him sleepy at this point
3.10 - back upstairs, fed ok, whimpered when put in cot but stayed down and went to sleep.

Then he slept (or didn't wake me up anyway) til 8.40, so we're now screwed on the keeping a consistent waking up time bit.

The book just says to 'use your normal method' to get them to sleep, so what do you do when that doesn't work???

Our normal routine is:
7ish - up and feed
8 - breakfast then playtime
10.15ish - Waybuloo
10.45ish - story, feed and nap (11-11.15ish)
Between 1-2 - (whenever he wakes up) lunch
After lunch - out for fresh air/children's centre etc
mid-afternoon - snack
5.30-6 - tea
6ish (Sky+ is a wonderful thing) - Waybuloo
Bath
Stories
Feed and Bed (normally asleep by 7.30, but depends on how tired he seemed, how long he fed for etc.

I can try swapping bath and Waybuloo (thanks for the idea BTW) but am always hesitant t change something in case it makes him worse - am worried bringing him downstairs then would make him think its playtime again....

Gingerbaby No need for any jealousy now and hope the weigh-in goes well today!

Sorry, this is a gigantic post, but hadn't posted my logs before, so...

(it's mistletoeandjuan- back to my normal name)

Crikey leeloo - that was an epic night! It gets so frustrating doesn't it? And I always feel so hopeless and lacking in perspective at that time of the night.

We've had a reasonable couple of days. It has definitely made a difference getting her to fall asleep in her cot and it has been easier than I thought it would be (we're talking about a baby who has been fed/rocked to sleep for every single sleep for 8 months). She's only had a couple of wake ups but has still ended up in our bed by 4am (if I'm being honest I like it as much as she does)

However the fact that she seems to have learnt to put her own dummy back in when she wakes up at night has made me a bit reluctant to get rid of it for now. What do you think oh wise sleep gurus?!

mrsjuan I think I would leave the dummy for now if she can do it herself - the problem was getting back up to give it back to her, correct? You can always do dummy fairy when she is older.

leeloo that is what I thought the first time I read the book Have you got a TV upstairs? I completely understand about not wanting to bring him down again - but also I don't have a TV upstairs so could understand if that didn't appeal either. Our bathroom is downstairs so not a problem here.

gingerbaby I don't think it's a difference of place because he usually naps in his pushchair, but I put him to bed upstairs. However he did fall asleep in the pushchair so perhaps I should move him before he wakes up - I am just worried if I move him in the middle of a sleep cycle he will wake up fully but be tired because he hasn't slept properly. I will try this tonight anyway if he goes to sleep in pushchair.

Oooh, sorry to all those having a tough time.
We had our first good night in months last night. One waking at 4:30 am. Feed and back to sleep until 6:45. Silly thing is, I almost feel worse. I think my body is confused at having a bit more sleep. Normally a good night is followed by a bad one, so we'll see!

Bertie- NCSS does say it can take a week or two to get used to earlier bed and they may think it's a nap at first. Maybe it will get better.