New Year No Cry Sleep Solution Thread

[BertieBotts]

Does anyone want to join me in going through the whole book of the No Cry Sleep Solution and doing it properly, like a New Year's resolution type thing? (I am happy to start a week or few into the new year if people need time to sort things out first, get a copy of the book, etc)

I ask because the first time I read the book, I was quite sleep deprived and frustrated and looking for quick solutions, and didn't really realise that it's not so much a book of suggestions as a process to go through which helps change your thoughts as much as your behaviour surrounding sleep. I did the sleep logs, and then DS was ill, and then it was Christmas and we went away for a week, and I just felt it was pointless starting anything new after all that so I probably need to do the sleep logs again before I start so that I have a better comparison. But as a bonus I already have the different suggestions from chapter 4 summarised with page numbers which should be helpful.

Does anyone want to join me?

Bertie My DCs don't fall asleep when I sit in with them either. I used to take a glass of wine and sit in the hall outside DDs room at times but she would stay awake wondering what I was doing .

Good news DS fell back asleep for DH (he stroked his hand ) I hope thats it for a while now as he was awake from 7.30pm until 9.30pm last night.

It's always easier to think of solutions for others' problems though I find! I will scroll up and have a look at everyone else's in a minute.

If I get in with him he wants to feed from me constantly as my boobs are on show. I have bathed with him once and ended up all wrinkly as he didn't latch off long enough to do anything! Am going to try with a swimming costume on if I can't get him to calm down, but it would be easier if I could bath him on his own. My mum is good at bathing him and from what I have observed it is mainly distracting him from the fact he's knee deep in water that helps, but he tries to climb out when it's me which doesn't leave me much hands free to play. I might try bath toys as I was looking at the ELC ones before Christmas and they have some fun looking ones.

OK so
Confused Yes I think having a structure for naps based around meals rather than timings works very well. And in fact I find this way I notice a lot quicker that DS is tired, because I find myself thinking "He usually has a nap after he eats" and then I notice the tired signs more, whereas before I did that I wouldn't know why he was grumpy and be trying everything from toys to food to company to calpol, and only getting it right some of the time by chance.

loopyloo Have you thought about putting your DD to sleep in the pram from 7pm until you go to bed? Sometimes the motion and being strapped in is comforting for them, and then you can leave them there and be able to do other things - DS used to sleep downstairs in his pram a lot and I could make a lot of noise around him and he wouldn't wake up. Sorry if this is not what you want - just thought I'd put the suggestion out there in case you hadn't thought of it. If anything it could be a good first step, DS will now go to sleep (sometimes!!) if I strap him into the pushchair on his own in a dark room, without being pushed in it at all, and he either stops crying as soon as he is strapped in or doesn't cry at all (I would take him out if he did) - I think the restraint of the straps is soothing to him somehow, or maybe it's the fact he knows he couldn't possibly get up and play. In fact I might take the spare pushchair up to the bedroom...

Febes Don't worry about the cot having bad associations, I'm sure they can be broken if they do exist! You could try putting a baby cot sheet on top of your pillow or on your bed just under where the pillow comes and sleeping with it there for one night, then using that sheet in his cot so that it smells of you and is comforting.

gingerbaby Hello

I feel like a bit of a fraud after reading about some of the other sleep problems! DD's sleep issues are fairly mild in comparison...but still leaving me exhausted!

My info:
Baby's age: 7 months
Sleep location: mostly in own cot (in own room), but comes in bed with me when she wakes between 5-7am.
Type of feeding: Breast and solids, with one bottle of formula a day.
Aims: 1. To reduce night feeding/waking to once a night. Ultimately, of course, to cut it out altogether, but I can't see that happening any time soon so I'm being realistic!

1. To establish some kind of regular daytime napping.

Well, I think DD must know I'm doing my sleep log tonight. She has already cried for her dummy 4 times since 7pm. I still can't decide whether the poxy thing is a blessing or a curse!

DS is still asleep!!

Bertie have you tried letting him in the bathroom when you have a shower / bath? And maybe trying him in the bath without any water but just with his toys? Again sorry if these seem silly ideas and are annoying, v impressed that you're coping in your difficult situation.

I too found routine for naps etc easier when DS started solids as meals are more fixed but have always tried to follow DS's lead re when he is tired so depends on when he wakes / how long he naps for. It means i'm good at picking up his sleepy signals but not sure this helps though as am still unable to get him to sleep without me holding him / lying next to him in our bed / hugging him with my arms in his cot with my bum in the air which is very uncomfortable to say the least

On a pathetic note, still haven't done my sleep logs as forget when he wakes / how long for / am too knackered to do anything but soothe DS back to sleep and get back to sleep myself & then by the time he has had brekkie its all just blended into any of the last 365+ days of broken sleep....Did you all do yours as you went through or just in the morning?

My info:
Baby's age: 12 months
Sleep location: started entirely in cot! Now mainly in cot but co-sleep at night from about 11ish, previously had been even co-sleeping for naps
Feeding: solids & formula
Aims: The only 1, get DS to fall asleep alone!!!!

Fist day at work went ok, seems he can manage without me

Baby's age: 12 months
*Sleep location: In cot, but mostly does his sleeping in travel cot in the living room

Seems to hate his cot, immediately crawls to the end of it, smacks his head on the bars, cries, pulls himself up and screams. Repeat x100. Settles better in travel cot, possibly as no bars but nylony sides??

Long term, want him to go in a bed in DDs room.

Type of feeding: breastfeeding and lots of solids

Aims:

1. To get him to sleep earlyish in the evening, say around 8pm, in his cot/in the bedroom.
2. Reduce night feedings to 1 or 2, settle back to sleep in own cot after them.

Bertie saw your other thread about mealtimes and feel for you, it's hard to deal with lots of changes at once so do be kind to yourself. I just do cereal for breakfast plus bit of fruit juice/piece of fruit, lunch is early about 11.45-sandwiches or cheese on toast plus fruit and or yoghurt, tea is something simple like cottage pie, or chicken portions with oven chips and veg, or jacket potatoes with sausages, fishfingers.

I am not a routine person at all but with having DD have had to have a kind of pattern to the day. Our daytimes are fine, he naps fine, just the nights are awful.

One thing I wondered about, DS goes to sleep (relatively)well in the living room, usually with tv on quietly, wondered whether anyone has tried a quiet radio/white noise/music tape? I am wondering if it is too spookily quiet for him in the bedroom away from all the 'action'.

And I haven't tried introducing a comforter/lovey, might be a good way to help him sleep without a boob in his mouth, which is what he gets now.

Moaning I was alsowondering about a comforter. DD sucks her middle fingers and has done since 4 months so can comfort herself and I think this is why she sleeps well. DS doesn't suck anything thumb or dummy only my boobs!! Has anyone else tried this and how do you do it??

DS has a dummy but he throws it across the room when he wants to do shouting

May try a little teddy over the next few days. I had another read of the gentle version of CC in the back of the book, and the baby whisperer sleep section, but the thought of the PUPD type sleep training sounds like very hard work - and I am too tired to face it at the moment.

Watching any replies about comforters with interest as DD only likes the dreaded dummy. I've tried her with a little fleecy blanket with labels all round it and a couple of soft toys but she just plays with them and wakes herself up.

What age do they start to choose their favourites?

I wish DS had taken to a dummy but he just pushed it out over and over again.

DD was never very interested when I tried with her, she only started sleeping though about 12mo too but she was completely different - personality wise, and feeding. She was bottlefed at 12mo too so after night bottle would do the lyig her back down til she gives up.

I am more softer with DS and just keep offering him breast every time he whimpers, don't think I am doing him any favours but don't feel able to do the ' keep lying him down and hope he keels over with exhaustion' thing. Probably partly because I don't want to wake DD up, and it would because she has ears like a bat.

Thanks moaningminnie

Just wanted a bit of a rant, DS has been asleep since just before 7 (hooray!!!) having not had an afternoon nap today, but woke up at 10 and is still up though has ONLY wanted to be held. If I fed him in bed after 5 minutes he was crawling and giggling, I thought no... I'm not lying here getting all resentful if he wants to play, so I took him downstairs but he screamed at the mere sight of the playpen, highchair or pushchair. Put him in the pushchair anyway and he screamed for a bit but I could tell it was annoyed/tired rather than "come and get me" so I left it, he stopped after about 2 minutes anyway, but then 15 minutes later started crying in a "get me out" way so I did, changed his nappy, took him back up to bed but he did the same again so I brought him down again, we had a long cuddle just sitting on a chair then I put him in the pushchair for a bit, again he cried for 2 mins but has been quiet since... he is watching that Moliere thing on BBC4, I thought French might be less stimulating as he won't understand it. And it's quite quiet with not too much action.

It's weird, the TV thing goes against my instincts as I've always been told it's very stimulating (and have found that myself I fall asleep easier if I read or something rather than watch TV or go on the computer before bed) - but it is the single thing that calms him down, and he just never ever relaxes.

...Still awake...

Oh Bertie - that sounds like a tough night. What time did he eventually go to sleep? Personally I always fall asleep in front of the tv and you hear of lots of people putting DVDs on for their young children to fall asleep to. I used to get all judgy about it but now I can completely understand why people do anything just to get them to sleep peacefully!

Here's my sleep log. She was much worse than usual in the early part of the night and fairly typical the rest of the time, eventually ending up with us for the last 4 hours.

7pm ? asleep in cot (after bottle, dummy & cuddling to sleep)
7.42pm- awake ? crying. cuddle and dummy ? 2 mins (42 mins)
7.53 ? awake ?crying ? dummy & cuddle ? 3 mins (9 mins)
8.13 ? awake crying - dummy ? 1 min (17 mins)
8.57 ?awake crying ? dummy ? 1 min (43 mins)
10.07 ? awake- crying, dummy and cuddle ? 7 mins (1hour 9 mins)
10.55 ? awake ? crying ? bottle, cuddle (no dummy) ? 35 mins (41 mins)
1.23 ? awake ? crying ? dummy, cuddle, 10 minutes (1 hour 23 mins)
3.07 ? awake, crying ? came in our bed (1 hour 34 mins)
7am ? woke up with us. (3 hours 53 mins)

It's definitely a sleep cycle thing - she just can't get back to sleep without me and or the dummy. What do you think my plan of action should be? I guess PPO + helping her fall asleep in her cot (pg144). It just feels like a lot of work when I'm shattered!

btw the times in brackets are how long she'd slept since last waking so longest stretch was nearly 4 hours (in our bed) and a couple of approximately 1.5 hour stretches. She got 10.5 hours in total though so I suppose that's not too bad - it's just the broken nature of it that is exhausting for me!

He went to sleep around 1am, I tried everything including taking him for a walk at gone midnight in sub zero temperatures - luckily not too icy here! I think I must have been a bit mad though, I got a bit freaked out by a house that was making a loud humming noise. I live on a Victorian terraced street with a lovely old school building at the end (lots of spires etc like a church) so it was slightly surreal and creepy!

He didn't even fall asleep on the walk but I left him in the hallway when I got in and he fell asleep there in the buggy.

So my sleep log looks a bit like this:

11.30am - asleep in pushchair while shopping
1.15pm - awake
6.50pm - asleep in pushchair watching TV
8-9ish - Woke, took upstairs to bed, fed, back to sleep - about 20 mins (1-2 hours)
10.00pm - Woke, tried various things - ended up bringing downstairs (1-2 hours. Total 3 hours this stretch.)
1.10am - Asleep in pushchair after going for walk outside.
2-9am - Woke briefly once, fed back to sleep - 2 mins (Not sure what time)
9.00am - Up for the day.

Total sleep 11 hours. (13 with nap included) 3 night wakings. Longest sleep stretch at least 4-5 hours.

misteltoe I remember the broken nights - they are draining. I found that the PPO worked well but it would be a lot of work to do it every time they woke as you have to stand and watch as they fall asleep which is likely to make you drop off as well!! EP says it is most important when they first go to bed so maybe just start with trying it then and see if there is any improvement?

Oh Bertie. Poor you.

We did sleep logs and last night was pretty representative of a good-ish night. We had:

7:45 - settled in cot after bath and feed. Sleep easily with ssh and the odd pat;
12:20- Awake for 5 minutes. Easily resettled with ssh and pat;
5am - Awake, feed. Wouldn't go back to sleep. Lots of almost drifting off and then waking. Continued until 6:10am.
7:30 - wake for day

I was surprised about the long stretch 12:30 to 5am, as normally if we have a waking that early we have lots of them. Also had one resettling during evening before 10:15 dreamfeed (had to get an early night!), but I forgot to write down when. About half an hour after bed I think.

On the plus side, DD has learned how to suck her thumb, and sometimes rolls on her side and goes back to sleep at naps on her own. She's also starting to become attached to the 'lovey' we got her, and I've seen her cuddle that to try and calm herself down.

It's the hour or hour and a half to get back to sleep after early waking that kills me!

Hi everyone,

Please can I join you? I've had the most miserable morning - I went to see the dr to check DS didn't have an ear infection - he's teething and after feeding at night he's suddenly started screaming when I pick him up to burp him on my shoulder rather than cuddling into my shoulder and being ready to sleep like he used to. She made me feel like the worst mother in the world (apart from accusing me of selling teething powders ('I've never seen anyone have so many, are you selling them on the black market?' - not sure which response is more appropriate but I've gone through all of them and now just feel sad and maligned!)...

Anyway, she said its clear I'm not coping (I am knackered) and I should stop BFing him ('there is no reason why he should feed at night!!!') and do CC. I said we'd tried it once (in desperation and against our plans) and that he'd howled for 3 hours and eventually thrown up everywhere. She said obviously it won't work in a night, you have to do it for at least a week... I know she was probably trying to be helpful and most people I know seem to have done CC but DS is stubborn and even if he wasn't I don't think its a good thing.

So its nice to be in a place where not everyone thinks CC is the obvious answer!

So Baby's age: 15 months
Sleep location: Cot in his own room from 6 months for most naps and all sleeps - really wish he'd co-sleep sometimes so I could get some sleep, but he sees it as playtime and does the standing at headboard, leaping on/smacking us that someone else described above.
Feeding: BF and BLW solids
Aims: Feed only 1 or 2 times per night.
Settle more quickly after feeding.
Settle himself.

DS started napping consistently at 6 months when I was at home for a few days decorating... before that he'd be kept awake by stuff happening and just drop off in buggy here and there. He now naps for 2-3.5 hours from 10.30/11ish. I have wondered if I should wake him up after 2 hours, but he doesn't sleep any better on days when he misses his nap so... Oh and he can settle himself to sleep for naps - he chats to his toys/throws them out of cot etc and then goes off to sleep on his own.

Nightime waking/sleep has always been an issue for him (I bought NCSS when he was 5 months old!) but its probably been more of an issue for me since starting work again and for the last couple of weeks it's been getting worse as he doesn't fall asleep/get sleepy feeding consistently anymore.

We have always had a strong nightime routine (Waybuloo, bath, (used to do massage when he lay still long enough), specific bedtime stories, special music, feed, bed. But am maybe going to drop the Waybuloo cos it gets him sleepy then bath wakes him up... DH said to drop bath but I like having a clean baby!

Weep

Ok sorry for long rambling 1st post, well done if you read any of it!

Hi leeloo

Have you thought about doing bath then Waybuloo, all snuggled up in pyjamas and a nice cuddly dressing gown/grobag? You could move the bath earlier, or get a DVD/record it, or even try In The Night Garden instead as it's on 20 minutes later.

What a weird comment the doctor made about teething powders!! Although just a thought, I find if I alternate between brands (Nelsons/Ashton & Parsons) they seem to be more effective, it's like DS is "immune" to one kind after a while.

Hi Leeloo at your GP. Not helpful at all. I second the bath then telly. Then you can make bath time really fun with lots of playing and do milk, tv and story all snuggly and sleepy.

We didn't have a too bad night considering DS has a cold and snotty nose and a runny tummy.
6.30pm asleep
7.15pm woke but went straight back to sleep with a visit from DH
11pm woke when I went up to bed as DH had left his door open so I feed him and he went straight back to sleep after a little chat to himself in his cot.
4.30am woke dh tried to settle him but I then asked him to bring him into our bed. DH said to me "you are getting soft"
slept in our bed
7.30am woke and feed and dozed until 8.30am

We have been out to BF cafe and he slept for 5 mins in the buggy on the way home at 12 so I took him upstairs and feed him when we got home but he didn't want to nap. I'll try to get him to nap a bit later.

I think his nights aren't too bad but I would like to cut the feeds down so I am going to give him a dreamfeed every night. Naps are a problem at the moment.

Bertie I just had a quick thought - I don't suppose one of those cot projector things like these could take the place of the TV for calming him down?

Perhaps you could start off with him watching it in the pushchair and then try it when he goes to bed?

Febes -that sounds like a great night!

If you want to get your naps sorted then, looking at your log I would try and haul yourselves out of bed after his feed at 7 rather than dozing until 8.30 seeing as he's had such a nice long sleep. Then you'd be on track for a nap at about 9 / 9.30ish. I know it's lovely to be snuggled up feeding for an extra hour or so in the morning but I find napping goes much better on the days when we get up straight away.

Is that any help?

That is a good idea, Misteltoe - I might look into getting one. Especially the idea about him watching in the pushchair. I had a fisher price rainforest lightshow thing but it is not a projector, just on the side of the cot, and he likes to watch it but it seems to wake him up more than calm him down, so not much use.