A polite request that only people who believe in attachemnet parenting ish and self weaning join this thread please. I am just not up to being told I'm useless or a slave to my children

[IAmTheNewQueenOfMN]

Gecko is still waking at least 3 (sometime 6 and up times a night) to bf

Has anyone else had this?

she is 23 months

IS dh not a suitable subsitute at all? Have you never spent a night alone? A mate of mine left her breastfed kid (who would take a bottle of EBM reluctantly) to to go theatre once and did the kid howl? not at all. She knew there was no milk to be had.

THAT is what you need. A hot warm holiday! ;0

PW - thank you for that. RL friend's dd is 3. She is pole-axed with exhaustion [and actually an odd kind of fury] and very much doing AP, but clearly unhappy whilst also very committed. Is an odd combo. Sort of as if by doing AP she's become a bit inflexible to even the idea that things can be tweaked, I suppose because she feels she's gone against the tide with extended bf etc etc??

I wanted to say to her that if she needed sleep, then isn't there an AP way - where they could still co-sleep but if she night weaned him, then he probably wouldn't wake up. And she did the same 'I can't deny, I must get through this'

and I wanted to say

'but she doesn't know that are other kinds of comfort yet. She might like the stroking' or whatever.

Is odd. And feels martyrish in this instance - and quite difficult to watch.

What is best way to give support? Just be sympathetic and not give advice? I keep forgetting that one

Sorry for hijack - NONE of this relevant to OP - am merely hijacking PW while she is here. I'm holding her at gunpoint and then intend to fly her to an airport in South America.

Am I the only one who thinks night weaning is a bit of a red herring then?

I pretty much AP my DS (now 2.10) - I did night wean and then actively wean him off the breast at around 2 cos DH was getting uncomfortable with the whole thing, but frankly it made NO difference to his sleep at all! If they won't sleep (and mine wouldn't) and you won't sleep train (and I won't) but offer comfort and reassurance instead, it can just be knackering.

I can't take away the comfort of me and DH at night from DS - I totally feel that it just wouldn't be right. So we cope, and get tired, then have a good night, then get tired some more...

sometimes i get totally hacked off and i'm not doing half what queen is. but then if i changed it any more or stopped bf then it would be denying all i've done already. and it is a bit grim working and not seeing much of ds during the week.

I room shared and partial co-slept with my daughter. We moved her to her own room at 6 months old (far too early IMO now). Then I spent every night for several wakenings nursing her in her room over night until she was 16 months old !!! By then I was pregnant again and so tired I couldn't stop crying.

I spoke to my DH who was shocked that I was still night feeding and he got up with her for a few nights offering water in a cup and if she insisted I would go and nurse her...after a few nights she started to sleep through. We still nurse during the day/evening to date. (2.4 years old)

However 3 days ago she has stopped sleeping and I am now cosleeping and night nursing a toddler and my 'not so little' 4 month old baby...argghh. I just need sleep in a big bed on my own, sigh...I say that yet having their little warm bodies cuddled up to you and my baby's hand on my breast (just in case I try and leave him ) is heaven in a way.

Long post, if you need space you can try the water thing. It did work, however I still feel guilty about it.

HTH

just offer her some fresh veg, 100x, she likes that...

Karvol
presumable sometimes you aren't there?

actually what is far worse is ds waking up so early. its fine for me when i'm going to work but dreadful for dh, who is not good at early mornings. and i leave at 7am so he can't stay in bed. he is convinced that ds wakes up for bf. all very fraught this stuff.

ds1 did this until about 2 and a half or 3
i did try night weaning when he was about 2 or so - i explained to him we were not going to have milk in the night, only in the day

and he was SCARED, really scared
it meant so much to him
it can be like telling a child you are going to take their beloved teddy and throw it in the bin
a year later when he was 3 he was down to one feed or so a night, and when he moved into his own room the night waking quickly stopped altogether

gentle night weaning IS possible but faced with the strength of the child's feelings about breastfeeding, many parents find they would rather sit it out until child is ready - EVEN if they are exhausted, EVEN if they are ratty, EVEN if some nights they feel they can't manage it any more

and it does get better

the despair and fear of a toddler denied milk can be very real, and very reasonable
don't judge people who are reluctant to put their child through that, even if they are struggling with meeting the intense needs of a 2 or 3 year old

I have said this before on MN several thousand times about my ds, so sorry if you have heard it before!!

He is 3.2yo now, but a few months ago, I did night weaning. I had read in LLL's How Weaning Happens book about a mother who held and cuddled her child as they cried for milk, so the child wasn't crying alone. We did this for a few nights, and DS stopped feeding at night.

It was all hunky dory for about three weeks until DS's behaviour became terrible. He is normally the most placid and chilled child that you could meet. We went back to nightfeeding, and instantly, the behaviour issues were resolved. I took this to mean that he still needed the night feeds which made it a lot easier to handle.

I don't even know how often he feeds at night any more because I sleep through most of it, but I know that suddenly, a few months ago, he started unlatching and rolling over back to sleep rather than dropping off to sleep while still attached.

My rational side says he is not going to breastfeed and co sleep for ever, but I must say that sometimes it feels like it!!

I say that yet having their little warm bodies cuddled up to you and my baby's hand on my breast (just in case I try and leave him wink) is heaven in a way.

awww!

thanks franny, i think that was what is missing from the thread. it must matter much more to some children than others.

i didn't do anything so brutal with ds, he really didn't mind (dh had been regularly putting him to bed while i was going out anyway). but the thought of giving up entirely gives me similar horrors to those you describe, he really would suffer.

I don't think anyone is judging here Franny. Your post makes loads of sense.

I think this thread isn't the place for my questions actually.

100x - I agree that it's odd to insist on doing something that makes you very unhappy. Can't really shed any light on that one (well, not in the AP context anyway). However, as you say, maybe she feels driven to defend it because of the bunker mentality - maybe she turns your suggestions over once you're safely out of the way?

There is the Jay Gordon night-weaning (or cutting down, at least) method, which has impeccable AP credentials. I lost the link when DP dismantled my old computer but if you go to Jay Gordon's site it's on there.

I didn't really start APing because of an intellectual commitment - I just did/do what feels right, and a lot of it is very AP-like.

I know what you mean about wanting to offer solutions instead of just sympathising all the time - I struggle with that one myself.

no maybe not 100 - i think we will all have felt judged though 100 in rl situations
people are not terribly good at shrugging and thinking 'oh well not my way, but still...' on this issue
they do like to try to SOLVE IT
when i was going through this i just wanted empathy and respect really! people want to change your parenting style - just allow the person to experience what they are experiencing - and acknowledge it
that can be all they need

I have gone out and dh has cuddled her back to sleep on the sofa but if I'm there she wants me

Franny's post is very good. I weaned DS1 (day AND night) horribly suddenly in a fit of bad-tempered exhaustion. He was absolutely distraught (he was about 20mo at the time), and I think a part of him has never trusted me since.

It was an awful way to wean though - looking back my behaviour was deranged. They could have put me on telly and titled me 'How Not To Wean'.

so true fanny
I haven't once asked for someone to help me
I just wanted to know if anyone else felt the way I did and if anyone else was having the same experience

Well DS is 17 mths and still wakes maybe 5-10 times a night for a quick feed. I don't see him changing this anytime soon. TBH I don't really wake up after i've gone to bed he just feeds himself unless I turn over.

oh policy

and franny, sorry I didn't mean to call you fanny

lol

DS fed like mad during the night, would usually have a few hours to begin with, then up, in our bed and feeding on and off until morning.
He then got much much worse at going to sleep so we did some cc which was the hardest thing I've ever done but did sort out the problem. That was never about not feeding him though, just getting him to go to sleep in the first place.

Anyway he got into a nice routine of sleep at 7.30ish, wake at 2 for a feed and then wake at 6 ish, sometimes 6.30 and once or twice 7 to come into our bed. That has now been replaced for the last few weeks by...

sleep all night until 5-6ish then into our bed for a feed
AFAIK we have done nothing to justify this! He is 20 months.

So it can just improve for no real reason!

(Hope I haven't jinxed it)

I maybe shouldn't post here at all because I haven't done extended bf

But I have MASSIVE respect for you Queen and for others who do this lovely thing for their children

(I'm actually reading this and feeling all emotional, not like me at all)

you will look back in a few years and you will not regret it.

No real pedigree to chip in here as I am a total beginner and have only ever done what I could with my DD, reading everything from the dreaded Gina Ford to three in a bed desperately - and have ended up in a sort of AP way - so just fascinated to read your posts. No one I know has bf beyond 6 months, so should I manage too eyebrows will be raised all round, and I'm pretty sure DH has no idea I might want to BF for longer or bed share, that will be a shock for him...but the sleep deprivation is killing me and all I seem to meet are mums who bottle feed and who's babies sleep 7 till 7 from three weeks! I still believe I'm doing what's best in the long term, and comfort myself that my insomniac DD will turn out to be a genius! I guess if I were in the op's position, all I might try would be making sure my DD wanted boob each time she woke in a gentle way, sort of 'Can we have a nice cuddle instead?'or 'Mummy really needs a hug, can we do that this time?' and the if she still wants boob give it to her then - she might go along with you once or twice and perhaps more after a few weeks? But hell, what do I know, I still stun myself with how many times a day I sit there with DD and am at a loss for what to do next!Really should have found mumsnet while pregnant.....