No Cry Sleep Solution Success!!! (I hope...)

[kayjayel]

Anyone want to join me in trying to make the NCSS work? I have an optimistic feeling (foolish I know) it may work with DD (5 mths).

She looked like a promising sleeper for first 2 mths (4 or 5 hr chunks!), then it all went to pot and has been waking every 2 hrs (or 45 mins, or constantly feeding) since then really. Had DS (now 3) as a sleeper from hell and I really can't do that all over again.

So I'm sticking with just one thing - trying to get her to settle herself from wake to sleep in her cot the very gentle gradual NCSS way. So - the plan -

Current going to sleep: on the breast
Goal - going into cot sleepy then settling self to sleep.

What I'm doing: the repeated pulling off the breast at the end of the feed and getting her to settle with just a cuddle, with the aim of then being able to cuddle her then put her in cot sleepy.

So night 1: Fairly normal 2 hrly waking, but seemed a bit easier at going into cot
Night 2:
Bed 9pm (socialising, so late),
woke 9.45 (rocked to sleep, back in 2 mins),
woke 1.30 , fed, back in cot (bit wriggly and fussy but no crying),
woke 4am (fed, fussy, but no crying, back in cot)
woke 6.30am (fed, awake for day)

It felt great! Longest sleep was 3.45 hrs, went 4.45 between feeds. And first night she's spent months in the cot all night (usually I get too tired and pull her in with me). And despite being wriggly and having more 'awake' breathing when put back in the cot after a feed she didn't wake or call for me, which feels like progress.

Excuse the me, me, me, thread, but I want to keep a log, and remind myself to keep going. Does anyone else want to join?

Fabi, my dd naps in sling as well. Thought I'd better get the nights sorted out before tackling that. As for the feeding to sleep - what I started doing was feeding her with the light on last thing and then looking at a book, then saying 'night night sleepy time' and putting her into the cot. She protested at first but not crying, just grumbling, so I didn't pick her up, just patted, rubbed her tummy, stroked her head until she went to sleep. It only took a couple of night before she was going off quite easily. Also, she has started pulling herself off the breast, where before she would get upset and was really 'sucky' at night. Still waking up a lot, although it's a bit less than it was.

Hiya, ds 13 months. At start, waking every 1.5-2 hours needing to be cuddled back to sleep. Now, some nights the same as he's full-on teething, some nights much better and I think (fingers crossed) he might be improving his self-settling. Recently bought a new monitor with lullabies that are much better than our key phrases! Seemed to be working for his naps although had a couple of bad nights the last 2 nights due to teething.

Gabster, RB, Tinier, loads of brilliant progress, seems as though we may all be on this thread for a loooooooooong time but we are all gradually seeing improvements so that's great!!

Fabiabi - keep at it girl. Doesn't matter how small the effort, every bit helps .... baby steps (he he).

RB - ".. started pullinger hsrself off ..." WOW! That's really kewl. More progress!

Ladymoo - snap! I use just one of the lullabies on the monitor and I swear it helps. As soon as I put it on when I'm doing his nappy he looks over at it and then graps his comforter, ready for bed.

Must report success. DS slept nearly 12hrs last night. Had a few brief awakenings around 6 and 6.30am but got himself back to sleep each time within a few minutes. We ditched the am nap today as he slept so well and I HAD to go into town. Bit of a disturbed lunch-nap (woke after 1hr10 so had to assist back to sleep) but slept 2 hrs in the end (excellent), and has gone down a dream ALL ON HIS OWN tonight in about 7m.

Good luck to everyone for tonight.

Gabster - 12 hours, that's amazing! I can only dream of that. In fact I don't know what I'd do with that much sleep!

Gabster that really is inspirational. Just what I need to hear with my starting tonight all-night-plan.

Did the pull off 8 times tonight before she succumbed to sleep. As usual has stirred 45 mins in (being patted by DP at the moment). I'm making a flask of tea to keep me going in the night, and try not to give in to the desire to sleep.

Fabi - it sounds like you are getting somewhere, though? 2-3 wakes sounds like progress. Its definitely a long slow road though. Keep going - you're going in the right direction with less wakes.

We're a house of illness still though, annoyingly, now its DS coughing all night, so I'm not expecting more than a few hours sleep .

kayjayel - DH coughing all night, I so know how you feel. I used earplugs when it happened to me! "Pull off 8 times tonight", that sounds quite good. How many times was it when you first started?

Must say ladies 12hrs sounds great but I am still only sleeping on av 5hrs per night so don't be too . I get insomnia (have had it since I got pregnant) and when I do manage to nod off, DS wakes me with his brief awakening and he nodds back off fine, but I am left lying there for an hour wide awake .

But must be positive - DH is on hols now so hoping to grab a few rest days over the next week or so.

Hi all, I was gearing up to a very negative post (10 wakes last night ; 7 feeds) and feeling very down about it all, but putting down tonight was good. I took my time and she was rocked, then patted in the cot, so the initial putting down is back to where I was before illness. Which is great.

But she's still trying to wake up 45 mins after going down. I've no idea why. Best go and try to go to bed for a few minutes.

I realised I just don't have the energy to do it all night with each wake. So I'm back to really working on the putting down at bedtime awake, and just coping with the rest. I'm sure this means slower progress, but there's no way I can function on no sleep at all.

Gabster - poor you - it must be absolutely gutting to have the baby sleep and you still be up. I hope it starts to resolve when you get a bit more used to not waking up to a baby.

How is everyone else? Fabi - hope you've managed to find some energy somewhere, it sounded like you'd got somewhere. Ladymoo - are you over teething yet?

Kalo - I was thinking about your Q - when you do the gentle removal, is it reducing in the number of repeats? And have you moved it forward to a more awake stage? I was wondering if the wake ups only reduce once baby is at the stage of going to sleep on own, from sleepy but alert-awake stage?

Kayjayel - Sorry you had such a bad night. Hope last night was better. DD was usually doing the 45 minute thing, but seems to have stopped doing it only this week. I think it's something to do with them passing from one type of sleep to the other, but I've no idea why they only do it at the beginning of the night. A normal sleep cycle is 90 minutes, apparently. DD is developing a pattern whey she does 3 hrs at the beginning of the night, then every 1.5 hours until about 4 in the morning, when she does another 3/4 hours. She self settled every time last night, though, and no periods of wakefullness which is always good.

Kalo - are you there? How are you getting on?

Gabster - I sometimes do the same. There's nothing worse than lying there saying 'I could be sleeping'.

Hi All,

Gabster well done it sounds as though you have really cracked it with the nights - and just in time for the next one! The insomnia must be pregnancy related - what a nightmare.

Kayjayel poor you, how was last night? At least it sounds as though you have got back to where you were before she got ill - please do stick with it.

Fabi - how're you doing?

RB - self settling!! Wehay! Well done you.

We have had a couple of really good nights - waking up once around 11 and going back to sleep fairly quickly without being picked up - then not waking again until 5.30/6am - maybe we are gettting somewhere after all?!?!

Gabster - are you pregnant now? There's no way I could sleep train this way if I was pregnant-tired!

Ladymoo - yes it does feel like the illness and feeding to sleep didn't mess things up too much.

Tonight I took her off a feed as soon as she started to look sleepy, which woke her up (a lot) then rocked/walked her to properly sleepy again and put her in the cot - her eyes were closed but breathing wasn't asleep, and she didn't protest at all - I'm thinking progress! Its moving quickly enough that I can see progress from night to night, which is really helpful.

How is everyone else?

NO am not pregnant (snigger). Meant since I got preg with DS so have had insominia for 19mo now.

DS went down really badly tonight - had to assist in the end.

BUT he hasn't woken yet, although had a few 9pm "noises" - so far so good! [fingers crossed emoticon]

I reckon the 45m thing improves when they learn to self-settle kayjayel, but it really is a pain! We get it more for day naps than anything so it is likely that it also goes on how tired they are. A MNer did tell me it is common if they are over-tired but I'm not sure if I agree.

Good luck for tonight everyone.

I would have been impressed you managed to get pregnant when you have a non-sleeping baby . Maybe when all the baby hormones have got out of your system then your sleep will come back?

I have more success - at the first 45 min wake tonight she was eyes wide, screaming, and I managed to soothe her without picking up! Just patting and shushing. This feels like a big step forward. Annoyingly she just woke again (the second 45 mins ) and I had to get her up and did feed her. She feels distressed to me, and not just looking for me, but physically uncomfortable.

Hope your 9pm noises didn't turn into anything more!

Had a shockingly bad night last night! But I gave her cauliflower for her dinner (for the first time) and I think it might have upset her a bit. Kayjayel, well done with with the settling. Just keep doing it and it will get easier (says me who was up half the night last night, but anyway!). How do you mean she feels distressed? I find it really hard to know whether dd in pain or just grumpy because she's tired or whatever, but I suppose you just need to trust your instincts.

Hi all

We went away for a few days this week, which was lovely, but sleep was not so great - dreadful night the first night but the second two weren't as bad. DS had a cold, plus we were in a strange place and it was not accessible by pram so day naps were terrible as we couldn't resort to 'pramming'! So was a bit despondent and worried we would be back to square one when we got home but actually has not been too bad!

Have moved cot into separate room (slightly emotional decision) but think it will help us all. DS whingeing a little bit when put down last night and tonight but went off pretty quickly on his own after a bit of patting. Naps in cot still erratic - some are happening and others NOT. And he woke at 4 as usual today and chortled away for about half an hour before I gave up and cuddled him back to sleep. Then pretty much up for the day at 5ish. But still, I had a good chunk of sleep between 9.30 and 2 - hurrah!

Good news from all it seems, well done with the settling kayjayel!
Poor Gabster, I used to suffer from bad insomnia until a few years ago but mostly gone now, but I do feel your pain.

Tenier - well done for getting a break. It always puts a spanner in, but it will all sort itself out once you are back. Also don't worry about the room move. We did it at about this time too. I know it's not recommended until 6mo but IME DS's sleep and self-settling definitely improved for it (as did mine!!)

Bad luck on the cauliflower RB. Have heard it can give indigestion/difficult to digest for some babies so probably it.

Kayjayel - well done on 45m fiasco - we had the same last night but it was definitely wind!

We are limping along - DS's day sleep has become erratic again, but we have just cut a third tooth. DH is home at the mo so he did the 6am wake for me this morning (love him) and then when he woke half hour later, we took him into bed with us. Not our normal, but it was lovely cuddles and bought me an extra few minutes in bed.

Is this progress? She only woke up twice last night between 7 and 7, but the second time she stayed awake for nearly 2 hours!

errrgh, have friends staying and they are the sort who are always getting up in the night to go to loo, so DS waking then.

However, have discovered that although though he seems wide awake and happy to get up at 5.15, if I take him back into bed with me he will go back to sleep. So next week will experiment with long cuddle and putting him back into cot.

Hi,

Been at my mum's for a few days, and have good and bad to report.

Last Weds DD did what you mentioned Rasberryblower and pulled herself off snuggled down and went to sleep. I was delighted, but then we has a terrible night. However the next night she did the same and it was wonderful - she slept from 9 (late night!) through to 5.20. We were so happy!

Sadly appalling timing meant that night we went to my Mum's for two nights both including going to parties and staying out late. Felt I shouldn't do it for her sake, but then I'd go even more mental if I didn't have a social life. So she was in a strange place, and overtired and sleep was rubbish. And still was when we got home yesterday.

Still we have hope that she can sleep 8 hours! And wonder if it was to do with solid food, which she tucks into with delight.

New problem though is a tooth on the bottom gum which she uses on my nipple, this is especially a problem when trying to do the pull out thing (she doesn't always pull out herself). And I now have a chest infection and am feeling very depressed - had to call dh home from work today cos I was in a panic and couldn't stop crying. Its all very hard.

Hi Fabiabi, really that's mostly good news on the sleep front, definitely positive progress, well done! Hope it is the solids - only a few weeks till we start...

Poor you re the tooth. A bit worrying, my friend assured me bottom teeth are ok as they curl their tongue over. Can you not tuck your finger over that bit when pulling off?

I have lost track a bit of what I am doing, tiredness and change of routine has confused me. Can't seem to get back to sleep after wakes this week. Things back to normal this week so have to try and soldier on.

OK ladies, will have none of this "it's not working" talk please.

1. DS definitely self-settles 8 times out of 10, and all without any of this horrible CIO/CC business.

1. RB and Fabiabi - you are both seeing this "pull off" business which sounds like definite, countable progress to me!

1. WE KNOW they will eventually grow out of most of these sleeping problems and "settle down" when they are ready, but its getting the DCs to this stage without hindering their development which is important, right? (whilst keeping us sane and our marriages healthy!)

so stop thinking negatively, get out the logs, look at the hard evidence, pat yourselves on the back and most of all ....make the most of the cuddles!!!

P.S. DS has started giving me big wet sloppy open mouthed kisses when I put him down. Everyone say "ahhhhhhhhhh".....

P.P.S. Hang in there Fabiabi - sending you lots of get well soon vibes over the ether ....

Am very close to giving up - looking back on my sleep logs things haven't really improved. Not helped by people around me saying I am too soft on ds & should do CC making me feel like an awful Mum that should be able to control him. Think everything is being made worse by the fact that it's party season & we have to keep declining invites as feel bad leaving ds with a babysitter cos he is bound to wake up. DH & I have had 1 night out together since he was born & it's really getting to me, am starting to resent him which of course I feel awful about.

Everyone listen to Gabster.

Fabi - hope you're feeling better soon. Chest infections are horrible. Good news on the 8 hours sleep though!

Ladymoo, how can you be an awful mum when you are clearly so caring? Last week you had some good nights, so that is progress. I think you're right that Christmas makes it harder. I haven't been out at night with dh at all since dd born, and only once by myself! We're going away with some friends at New Year, and part of me is really dreading it in case I have an awful time with dd.

Right, what I've done for the last couple of nights is cut out the night feeds. I feel able to do this because she's doing well on the solids, and she has tripled her birth weight. Because of the pulling off, her feeds at night were only very short. Last night I only had to get up to her once, but she took 2 hours to settle. She wasn't crying, but doing this angry grunt, and then calming down and wanting to play for a bit. Hard work! She has been feeding much better during the day as a consequence. This being awake for 2 hours in the middle of the night is becoming a pattern, though. But the plan is to gradually withdraw.

Amazing, amazing, amazing. Last night she slept from 8.45 to 11.30, then from 12.30 to 8.30!!!!

Not only 8 hours, but the best 8 hours!

I have been so happy all day! She is now in bed and I am sure it won't happen again - she has been coughing all day, and I hope she hasn't caught my chest infection. But it is wonderful to know she can do it.

I haven't got far at all in the NCSS, but it does seem to have paid off already. Or maybe she would have done it anyway. Either way it has happened. Hooray. Please don't get too demoralised (as I keep doing myself) and I hope you all get to feel how I did at 8.30 this morning soon.

Well done Fabiabi!

We had another not great night. DS woke at 8.30 having a nightmare, managed to settle him, then he woke at 10 to feed, then 1-ish, then half 3ish, twice I think, then he woke at 4 cooing and put himself back to sleep, then at 5.15. At 5.15 I went in twice and tried to cuddle him back to sleep but he just kept chatting and smiling. After second time I gave up and took him into bed with me and he fell asleep within minutes and slept till 7.30. So I am well rested but really don't know what to do about this! And don't feel we are making progress at all.

I tried to stall him with some success at the 1ish feed, but at half 3 he just seemed desperate for it, was grabbing at me. Feel like we are in a vicious circle cos I can't get him to feed enough in the day.