No Cry Sleep Solution Success!!! (I hope...)

[kayjayel]

Anyone want to join me in trying to make the NCSS work? I have an optimistic feeling (foolish I know) it may work with DD (5 mths).

She looked like a promising sleeper for first 2 mths (4 or 5 hr chunks!), then it all went to pot and has been waking every 2 hrs (or 45 mins, or constantly feeding) since then really. Had DS (now 3) as a sleeper from hell and I really can't do that all over again.

So I'm sticking with just one thing - trying to get her to settle herself from wake to sleep in her cot the very gentle gradual NCSS way. So - the plan -

Current going to sleep: on the breast
Goal - going into cot sleepy then settling self to sleep.

What I'm doing: the repeated pulling off the breast at the end of the feed and getting her to settle with just a cuddle, with the aim of then being able to cuddle her then put her in cot sleepy.

So night 1: Fairly normal 2 hrly waking, but seemed a bit easier at going into cot
Night 2:
Bed 9pm (socialising, so late),
woke 9.45 (rocked to sleep, back in 2 mins),
woke 1.30 , fed, back in cot (bit wriggly and fussy but no crying),
woke 4am (fed, fussy, but no crying, back in cot)
woke 6.30am (fed, awake for day)

It felt great! Longest sleep was 3.45 hrs, went 4.45 between feeds. And first night she's spent months in the cot all night (usually I get too tired and pull her in with me). And despite being wriggly and having more 'awake' breathing when put back in the cot after a feed she didn't wake or call for me, which feels like progress.

Excuse the me, me, me, thread, but I want to keep a log, and remind myself to keep going. Does anyone else want to join?

Hi Gabster poor you, getting sick, but at least you have had some really good progress - so nice to hear it actually works - even if the results are not ideal.

Very interesting about the naps - have to keep remembering all babies are different and what we read as gospel truth might not be for all of them. Hope the self settling has good results for you.

Thanks for the weaning advice too. It is interesting people keep saying to me - "try weaning her, well it didn't work for me, but it might for you" - nobody has actually said it did work for them!

Baby led weaning is, I think, where you wait till the baby can feed itself - instead of mushing everything up you give them hand held food and they do it themselves. Think for the moment I'll stick to that plan, but we'll see.

Sleep well!

Gabster - hope you're feeling better soon.

Just wanted to report our progress. First half of the night was pretty unsettled, including one screaming the house down session at one in the morning. (Have bought the neighbours some chocolates). But she woke at half 2, I fed her and put her back in the cot where she was making happy, but wide awake noises. So I thought 'bugger this' and went and got back in my own bed, waiting for her to work herself up again. But to my amazement, she went to sleep! And didn't wake until 7am! That's a 4 hour stretch at least.

sorry, poorly baby = no time, but glad to see progress! Either after the pox she will a) wake less due to less itchiness/poorliness or b) have some brad new sleep associations of a oermanent cuddle/nipple/sleep in my bed. What do we reckon? I may end up going to the bottom of the class again. Keep going everyone you're my inspiration!

Gabster - sorry you are ill but WELL DONE for the nights!!! Sounds like you have cracked it!!! Oooh glorious 12 hours sleep, I almost can't believe it - you are my inspiration to keep going. Sorry I know tis a stupid question as they're all different but how long do you reckon you were doing the NCSS until he started to self-settle? I am so disheartened by our progress.

Fabi - weaning DID work for us!

RB - well done - a nice long stretch there

Kayjayel - hope the baby isn't too poorly. I suppose if she's got it now it means that's it over and done with.

Ladymoo - I know your question was addressed to Gabster, but I've been refusing to bf dd to sleep for about a fortnight now, and that's every time she feeds during the night. I've put her in the cot awake and not taken her out again until she sleeps. As you can see from my previous post, I think we're beginning to see some results. My problem is now I'm not too sure what to do next. I think we're going to have to drop the feeds. Ooh festive smileys!

My festive smily didn't work.

Thanks RB, things definately sounds like they are improving for you, I wouldn't worry about the next step yet - you sound as impatient as me!! I think we will have been doing it for 2 weeks by Friday but it's very difficult to tell if there's been much improvement as he's teething at the mo & has had a lot of calpol!! Thank you though, that has definately given me the boost to keep going with Pantley, thanks.

HI all, feeling a bit less sorry for myself now.

Ladymoo - took about 3 weeks (just over) I reckon for him to self settle. Did it a few times then over about 3 days became more reliable. BUT we did not have suck-to-sleep associations - rumour has it these are much harder to kick. IOW - KEEP AT IT LADIES.

Should add 12hours sleep is with various brief awaknings still, main one at 10.30 is very noisy, but he needs no outside assistance to re-settle and is sleeping roughly 7 to 7 so we went to bed and turned the monitor off last night. Lurverly

RB - fabulous news. Really happy for you!!! No turning back now!

Kayjayal - sorry your LO is so poorly. Just make the most of the cuddles - you know there is no point in any training until they are better.

We had a better day today. Short am nap and 1.5hrs lunch carried him through to normal bed-time so can't complain. Has gone down a dream (singing away). We have realised he is cutting his am nap which has been causing a lot of our problems, and he really does not need more than 2hrs sleep in daytime naps so I am trying to be more relaxed about the whole thing and just let him be my guide.

Well done Gabster that's amazing!! Your hard work has paid off and you deserve it. I was thinking of you last night as I stroked a screaming ds' back & repeated key phrases over & over for an hour. Finally gave in & gave him meds - I know he is teething but still I feel guilty about it - so tricky. Really want to continue with the NCSS but don't know if it's having any effect when I end up drugging him to sleep anyway. hmmmmmmmmm.

BTW think my ds really starting cutting down on daytime sleep at about 9 months - I think they change so much so quickly from this stage on that you just have to do what you can to keep in the routine but really be led by them. SUCH a pain when they wake up raring to go after 40 mins but at least it sounds as though you are getting lots of yummy sleep at night now - ooooh am toooo jealous!

How is everyone doing??

ladymoo - I've just calpoled dd as well. She was screaming blue murder and I can see tooth number 3 coming in. After success of the night before, last night was not so good, so I was actually relieved when we spotted the tooth this morning. Was hoping for some respite from the teething for a couple of weeks but no such luck! I find it hard to know when to medicine and when not, but you don't want them to be in pain do you? I think if you know they are definitely teething then it's fine, and other times it's a guessing game. The fact that you worry about it means you are probably doing it appropriately. Keep going because it will pay off in the long run.

hi all, i'm an intermittent lurker on this thresd, going to start proper when i move house next week.

but quick question, been doing the gentle nipple removal ebery night for two months and still not making any difference to wake ups. why?

Hi all, sorry I've not been even thinking about sleep til chicken pox settled down. I'm off to get some recovery sleep this weekend, and plan to do it all properly again from Monday night. I think things have gone backwards a lot - she likes to sleep with me now. So its back to square one.

RaspberryBlower - sounds like you have real progress there! Its a shame about teeth. How's last night?

Gabster - well done on the hard work - hope its still paying off? Self-settling is I suppose what we all want. Did you do the putting back to bed gradually more awake thing for each night waking?

Ladymoo- teething is such a pain. Could you give Calpol before doing the sleep stuff, so that then you know he's not in pain but you can still keep trying to change his sleep associations? I.e. 30 mins before bedtime?

Tinier - how are you doing?

kalo12 - hi, I don't know the answer! I'm going to re-read the book and plan how I'll do it properly, cos I was just doing the first putting down and it was going quite well, but no difference to night wakings.

Hope everyone's okay and feeling festive !

We had a really terrible night last night! Early on she did self settle a couple of times, so I just put her in the cot and left the room and she went to sleep. This would have been unheard of a couple of weeks ago, so I'm trying to hold onto this as progress. But then, she was awake for about three hours in the night, crying and just wouldn't settle. As soon as I thought I'd got her off she'd wake up again. I hope it's the teeth!

Kalo - I don't know either, as dd is still waking up a lot too. Probably cutting out the feeds is the next step but that seems too difficult.

ladymoo & RB - totally agree about meds. I am always reluctant, DH more so, but like you say - thought of DS in pain ...... Just have to do what you think is right at the time. And I reckon that goes for parenting in general. But don't forget, they really can't cope with sleep training when they are ill/in pain so IMO its a waste of energy.

Kayjayel - welcome back. We are all here when you get started again. We did do the "not quite asleep" back in the cot thing each waking. Hard when some of them took 1.5hr (always the really early morning ones of course) but then gradually I delayed going in (went to the loo first or something in case it was going to be a long one) and by the time I got to the door it was quiet .....

Oh, and RB, I reckon its teeth. We still suffer on and off, especially at the beginning of the evening.

DS has had horrible cold, and tummy bug (me too), and has now forgotten how to self settle AGAIN. I thought Pantley said that was only if you did CC??!!! Am beside myself. Oh well, will see if it is just today or a general thing.

Have a nice weekend everyone.

Gabster, no, I'm sure it'll come back to him. With the sleep training and them being ill, how do you get through it without them going back to their old ways? Last night I picked up dd and cuddled her, rather than trying to comfort in cot, and I took her into bed eventually. I didn't bf to sleep though. She's been right off her food today as well.

Hi all - after a very bad night earlier in the week, things have been more back to 'normal'. Don't feel like much progress - ALTHOUGH - weds and thurs put DS down awake (not only just awake, like normal, but more alert) and he self-settled, but last night it took a lot more work, although still managed to get him down awake.

Night feeds are much easier to detach him from but are still there! So can get him off much quicker after the feeding is over, but the feeding part itself seems just as long.

Still v little joy with self-settling for naps and am only trying this intermittently.

However have had long-distance counselling session with friend who is mother and baby sleep counsellor and feel more encouraged. Feel less like this is all a disaster zone now, and more like it is normal and we will get through it.

DP away tonight but is going to start getting up in night to try and settle DS when he wakes now, in order to keep the milk taps away from him unless no other option.

Glad everyone else still here and prepared to carry on. If we keep sharing our tiny successes it feels more encouraging!

Does anyone know when babies stop needing to nap every 2 hours in the daytime?

Fantastic on self settling Tinier! Sorry to hear you've had bad nights though. In terms of naps, DS stopped napping first around 2, and they'd totally stopped by about 2 and a half. But I know 3 yr old still having long naps. Well done on feeling more positive - it will pass. They won't need us to settle them at 16. I hope.

Gabster - I hope it comes back quickly, maybe he's still a bit under the weather with it?

In terms of success it looks like RB, Gabster and Tinier have all had babies who show they CAN self-settle! That is progress. Hopefully I'll join the list soon. Good luck tonight .

RB - well done for not bfing. You might be right, he could still be under the weather, but he is definitely not settling at the moment.

It seems he will lay in the cot burbling happily for 20m and then cry. We go in and only have to pick him up and he falls straight to sleep on us. Last few nights he has woken 10m after falling sleep like this which is wierd too.

Tinier - sorry about the troubles but sounds like progress to me and glad you had your friend to talk to. I'm glad for this thread too - am so upset as feel like I have to start all over again for 3rd time. But I will now I know it works.

I think (usually) around 4-6mo they drop the pm nap, and around 6mo they start to go a bit longer than 2hrs between naps (if that's what you are asking). DS is 10mo next week and CAN go around 3hrs if well rested, but usually goes 2.5hrs and is starting to drop his am nap now too.

Kayjayal - keep at it. I may winge, but I've done CC and this is more work, but I (personally that is) think its worth it - My LO is worth it!

Well tonight he has gone down with a bit of patting and keywords, this is definitely better than even a week ago when we were still rocking and singing.

Gabster, thanks, that's what I was asking though not a very well phrased question!

Gosh, think everyone is doing really well actually to carry on despite illness, teething etc! Small steps but worth it. I for one am determined not to have to get to CC and also in a very obstinate way to prove everyone wrong who has either a) told me to leave him to cry or b) said 'why don't you just...' and implied it's all our own fault for not doing something obvious!

Good luck ro everyone tonight.

tinier, that is progress! DH was pointing out to me that when we started doing this, it used to take sometimes up to 2 hrs to settle dd and there was often lots of screaming, which wore me out. The last 3 weeks she has been settling usually within 20 minutes, if not less, of going into the cot. And last night I only had to pat once, the other times I put her in the cot and left the room and she went to sleep. Before this week, I never would have expected her to be able to do this. So, Kayjayel, keep going and it will happen soon.

Gabster, like you say, you know it does work and hopefully it's like learning a language in that you forget it if you don't use it, but with a bit of practice it comes back. Does that make sense? I know what I mean!

tinier that does sound good. And RB - great to be able to look back and see progress.

Can we do a quick roll call cos I keep forgetting how old children are and where people are up to?

Here's me at the start:
Kayjayel: DD, 5 mths, BF, 5-7 wakes per night, longest sleep 2-3 hrs, sleep association: BF to sleep

currently
Kayjayel: (before the pox), 4-6 feeds, 2-3 hrs, patted/rocked to sleep at bedtime, BF to sleep in night.

I'm being optimistic that it won't be too long to get back to how things were. Thanks for the encouragement!

DD is 6.5 months.

At the start (about 2.5/3 weeks ago): 6-8 wakes per night, bf to sleep, generally only sleeping 1.5 hours, sometimes 2.

Now (well last night anyway): 5 wakes per night, usually going 2.5 -3 hrs between and did nearly 5 one night last week. Going asleep in cot with patting and sometimes no assistance at all

This is so kewl - I think this means that most of us have had success to some degree! Some serious back patting required I think!! (he he - this is how we assist DS to sleep )

RB - you are dead right - think my DS just needs more practice. Your DH sounds really supportive.

Jayjayel - sure it won't take long to get back into it. Stay positive - we are starting to prove it works!

Roll Call: DS 9.9mo (snigger): patting and rocking to sleep, waking every 2hrs (about 5x per night), reverted to 30m naps 3x day.

1mo later: self-settling in night (3xtimes ish), usually self-settling for naps and nightime (but not this week ), 2 naps per day - lunch one usually 1hr20/30m !!

Must say have added motiviation/help of DH now as he has started his Xmas hols!! Has 3 weeks at home. [huge smiley grin emoticon 10x size of normal one]

Tinierclanger start:
DS 4months, BF, 4-6 wakes per night, rocked to sleep at bedtime and some naps, napping downstairs never in cot, other naps in pram, longest sleep 5 hours (but not for weeks!), BF to sleep in night

Now: 4-6 wakes per night, patted to sleep or self-settled once or twice, still lots of naps in pram, some naps in cot, longest sleep still 5 hours, some wakes now patted back to sleep instead of fed.

Hi,

I am not a very good member of this group, but I am trying slowly.

DD is 5 months.

Generally waking 4-5 times last week. bf to sleep always, but trying the pull out thing for as many wakings as I had energy for.

Now waking 2-3 times a night, but sometimes for hours, happily burbling (2.30-5 last night, only screaming for the last 15 mins before allowing herself to be bf to sleep.)

Naps still nearly all in sling on the move as EP says they are so important to night sleep and are the only garauntee of working - may be a mistake!

I want to start trying to put her down awake, but am finding it hard to sumon the energy and imputus to begin. She really seems hungry each waking so haven't tried other ways of settling in the night.

You are all doing so well, must try the next step, but not really sure how to begin.