No Cry Sleep Solution Success!!! (I hope...)

[kayjayel]

Anyone want to join me in trying to make the NCSS work? I have an optimistic feeling (foolish I know) it may work with DD (5 mths).

She looked like a promising sleeper for first 2 mths (4 or 5 hr chunks!), then it all went to pot and has been waking every 2 hrs (or 45 mins, or constantly feeding) since then really. Had DS (now 3) as a sleeper from hell and I really can't do that all over again.

So I'm sticking with just one thing - trying to get her to settle herself from wake to sleep in her cot the very gentle gradual NCSS way. So - the plan -

Current going to sleep: on the breast
Goal - going into cot sleepy then settling self to sleep.

What I'm doing: the repeated pulling off the breast at the end of the feed and getting her to settle with just a cuddle, with the aim of then being able to cuddle her then put her in cot sleepy.

So night 1: Fairly normal 2 hrly waking, but seemed a bit easier at going into cot
Night 2:
Bed 9pm (socialising, so late),
woke 9.45 (rocked to sleep, back in 2 mins),
woke 1.30 , fed, back in cot (bit wriggly and fussy but no crying),
woke 4am (fed, fussy, but no crying, back in cot)
woke 6.30am (fed, awake for day)

It felt great! Longest sleep was 3.45 hrs, went 4.45 between feeds. And first night she's spent months in the cot all night (usually I get too tired and pull her in with me). And despite being wriggly and having more 'awake' breathing when put back in the cot after a feed she didn't wake or call for me, which feels like progress.

Excuse the me, me, me, thread, but I want to keep a log, and remind myself to keep going. Does anyone else want to join?

Ooh, look
No-cry Nap Solution

Will this fix all?!

With us DS needed to be happily awake in his cot to go to sleep for a decent length of time so I would leave them until they get upset, then go straight in, settle them and try again.

We decided just how much DS was allowed to grumble before we would go in and agreed that if he was yelling and whinging then we'd leave him (after all, who doesn't get grumbly when they are tired? I know I bite DP's head off when eh talks to me as I'm drifting!!) but the moment his noise escalated from a whinge to a cry we'd step in. I think it's a good thing we did this because he murmurs himself back to sleep if awoken now.

Last night I went into his room at around 8:30 to put him in his grobag as he'd fallen asleep early. I was expecting fireworks!
I picked him up, he awoke straight away, I put him in it and he tried rolling over as I did it up so I had to roll him back, do it up then leave him. He started to go into a cry and I braced myself. stood by the cot expecting to have to pick him up. Ten seconds later he was fast asleep!!! I couldn't believe it!!

Also, tinierclanger. DS is my 3rd DC, both DD and DS1 slept like a dream from about 2 months, NEVER had a single problem with them so when DS2 started to have an obvious sleep problem I was mortified, I couldn't understand what I was doing wrong and was absolutely shattered. I went through all the wonderful sleep deprived thoughts of what an awful, terrible mother I was, I mean, who can't get a baby to sleep FGS, it's what they do best, right?

Since doing this with DS2 I've realised that I am still a great mother but every child will test us in some way. DS1 was awful at toilet training, yet DD was dry both day and night by her 2nd birthday, DS2 is the typical bad sleeper and I'm dreading DD's 'tough phase', my luck says she'll be the nightmare teenager but it really has nothing to do with us as parents. All we can do is our best and by trying to find a way to get our babies sleeping without leaving them feeling distressed is a commendable effort. Keep up the good work.

Excellent post VS.

We have similar rules about crying here too. Glad to know we are on the right track.

Its good to know about your DCs differences too as I don't want to have a lonely child, but dread the thought of going through this all again - plus with DS1 still to deal with!!!

Tinier - looks very interesting! Have just bought wonderweeks though so book budget blown for now. If you get it, let me know what it's like.

Darn just wrote a whole post & it's disappeared boo!

A better night last night

Asleep 6.45 fell asleep on bottle
9pm awake for 10 mins - back to sleep after back rub & key phrases
5.30 awake (hurrah!!!) but no getting back to sleep - came into bed with us 6am with a bottle but really crying until eventually he was sick.

Tinier you have all my sympathies - I hate those days - you need lots of yummy food & cuddles & sitting down as much as possible! Rest assured you will be more cheery tomorrow.

I totally agree with the putting to bed earliert thang - it's tricky for me as ds is at nursery until 6 but am coming to realise that we can avoid the whole crying/screaming/squirming pjs & nappy on palaver after the bath if I just make it 1/2 hour earlier - fingers crossed this might make him sleep better too.

Good luck everyone xxxxxxxxx

Hello everyone - I've been thinking about introducing a 'lovey' and DD seems to like going off to sleep holding a teddy. But then I'm paranoid about leaving it in the cot so I take it off her - defeating the purpose of her using it to settle herself later. In fact, I'm probably creating a sleep association with it aren't I? She's 6.5 months and the teddy is about 6-7 inches and suitable for a baby (stiched eyes,not furry,nothing to come off it). What have other people done about introducing comforters?

Raspberry I think that would be fine - our ds had a small teddy from about 3 months. That's a good sleep association isn't it? You can take it with you if you go away etc.

Yes, Raspberry ditto ladymoo. GOod association and good idea. We have a soft comforter like this for DS and he loves it (no pun intended). As soon as you give it to him he grabs it by the ears and shoves its nose in his mouth . I am sure he then knows sleep is coming and gets himself ready.

We had a good nap day today so I am hoepful for the night ahead.

Ladymoo, we def have to do that too (earlier bed time). Best intentions but it just never happens!

I want to join!! I just need some encouraging stories.

DS is 4.5 months old. Slept wonderfully the first two months (4-5 hr stretches) and then plagued by gas in month two and teething in month three (so by now I guess has forgotten what it's like to sleep long stretches?). Was waking every two hours up until a few weeks ago. Now he wakes up 30-45 minutes after first going down, then every hour thereafter!

My baby shouldn't spend his day with a mommy crying of sleep deprivation. Nor should he have woken up today soaked in urine because his mommy was too tired to get up and change his 10-hour-old diaper. My God, did I feel wretched about that. Especially because I told myself the last time it happened would really be the last time. And more especially because I thought I had embarked on the NCSS as of last week. So much for that.

I feel as though I'm having some very minor success with PPO but hard to tell especially at night since DS keeps his eyes closed through his wakings. Also, Pantley says the room should be as dark as possible and I can't see a bloody thing. Do you all keep a nightlight on all night or just turn one on when you go in?

Started with Phase 1 this evening. I had to settle him 5 times in 90 minutes. No crying from him but my face is already tear-strewn. O night of torment!

Hi Gabster - how old is your ds and do you leave it in the cot? It is a good association to have, I just meant I'd better decide if I'm giving it her or not, because no good if she forms an association and then I take it out! Last night was horrendous. But I can feel tooth no.2 coming through I think. Hi Dobri, I don't need a night light because I can see a bit from the light outside. I've been 'pulling off' and settling in cot for a week now and she was becoming easier to settle (except for last night but as I say there is hopefully a reason for this).

God, poor you Dobri! Don't feel guilty about night soaking, I don't think it actually bothers the babt, even though you wouldn't aim for it.

We turn the night light off when I go to bed but I feed DS in the next room where light shines in from the street, so don;t need it.

Last night was a nightmare cos DS had his vaccinations and was really upset in the night so we were up most of the night getting him settled. Please reassure me that it's ok that we threw the book away for that one night! Hopefully tonight will be more normal.

BTW our comforter looks like
this but he only has it for naps as I'm scared to put anything in the cot with him at night. Do you think it's safe?

Sorry Tinier how old is your ds? I kind of think so long as they can roll over & hold things he will be able to move away from it or move it away from him if it's over his head or something. Sorry does that make sense. Of course don't worry about having a nice off from NCSS, even Pantley says that's ok she's so lovely!! - did you give him calpol or anything?

Dobri I'm sure other people have said this to you and just ignore me if you like but we weaned our ds at 4.5 months, he then slept through until 8 months and was like a different baby in his temperament. Re nightlights - we have one which I am hoping is also a sleep association maybe?

Anyway, we had a good night last night, took 20 mins to get him off to sleep, awake 8.30 for 10 mins, then 1am for 5 mins then up for the day at 6.30am woohoo!! Don't know if it's just a phase or perhaps this NCSS is actually working!!

How did everyone else get on?? Raspberry? Gabster? Kayjayel?? Hope all ok xxx

RB - DS is 9.5mo (approx) and yes, we leave "blue bear" in the cot. Plus his counterpart "blue dog" (I'm not imaginative with names). We gave them to him just before 6mo when we weaned him off the dummy as a security thing and he realls likes them. I usually give one or other to him on the changing table as I put him in his sack and we cuddle/pat him on shoulder with the lovey between us. Then he goes down in the cot with them.

We did have some problems at first that he would throw the comforter over his head once we had left the room and then cry until we came back in to get it for him but he seems to have finally got over that phase now (hopefully it won't return).

Dobri - please don't get too upset or take your LOs change in sleeping personally. Its a typical thing to start happening at this age and you just have to tell yourself things will get better and cope anyway you can for now. We all go through it to some degree (anyone who says otherwise is either fibbing, or will have some horrible stage later instead so ner).

I rarely use the night light. I usually turn the light on in the hall (not the one directly outside DSs door) and then open/close the door to make it lighter/dimmer.

Tinier - well done! Hope your good luck keeps up and spreads!

Ladymoo - Hey, sounds like you may have cracked it!!

Ladymoo, he is only 17 weeks so prob still a bit young to keep it with him overnight, think I will hold off till he's a bit older. Fingers crossed for a better night tonight, had to do a bit of singing and rocking but he was def awake when I last left him with lullaby playing. I put his thumb in his mouth for him and that seemed to do the trick - don't know why he didn't think of that himself! Yes he had paracetamol last night, hope none needed tonight.

Good luck everyone for tonight, I am remaining positive, it may all take a good while for us in particular cos of teething, jabs etc but have to remember it is a gentle solution that will take time, not a quick fix!

Well I had a good night's sleep last night - unfortunately I think it was a combination of exhaustion induced deep sleep and DH turning off the monitor when he came to bed that meant I did not hear DS when he woke up in the night - I have a vague recollection of him waking but can't be sure

Can only be sure of him waking screaming at 6.45am .

Unfortunately he only took half his bed-time bottle last night, and has done the same tonight . I suspect this is why he has taken ages to go down and has woken after 45m already (but will not take milk) so it does not look good, despite fairly good naps today.

Ho hum.

Repeat after me 'and this too shall pass', Gabster! How was the night in the end?

We had a (relatively) great night last night.
6.20 bed (after about 10 mins rocking, singing - but def had eyes open the last time I put him down)
9.00 - stirred and squawked, my fault, the door squeaked when I was checking him. Just patted him once and he settled immediately
11.00 fed
02.30 fed, did keywords etc
04.00 - he woke and shuffled about for what seemed like about an hour, but was probably 20 mins, then must have got himself back to sleep. Wasn't crying but muttering and thumbsucking.
06.00 woke and fed then
06.15 up for the day.

Plus I went to bed at 8.30 as DP was out so I've probably had the most sleep I've had in months.

Prepared for meltdown tonight as we seem to get one 48 hours after the jabs, but feeling upbeat at the moment anyway!

Hi all, this is getting to be a lovely encouraging thread! Which is what I need! We have major teething kicking in. I can feel a big lump on the front - any ideas of when this might resolve into a tooth?

My progress - she is going into cot as soon as first sign of eyes closing, and it seems to take about 15 mins to settle her. Last night I managed to settle her with patting and shushing and NOT PICKING HER UP! This feels like a massive achievement. I've also been rocking her to sleep more so that she goes at least 4 hrs between feeds at the beginning of the night. But after midnight its every two hours, and she wakes if I move, so my sleep is horrendous. And DS has turned into an absolute monster. Screaming fits over nothing for hours each day, which isn't helping, and I'm sure I'm not dealing with it as well as if I'd been sleeping.

Its really great to hear everyone's progress, it really keeps me going when I try to do the nights. Dobri - your baby's pattern sounds exactly like DD! A good start, getting worse, now dreadful with teeth! And naps have gone to pot too! Sorry for the moan, on the whole I am pleased with how she's going to bed, just wish she'd stay there!

Hi kayjayel, that sounds great! Remember, you have to focus on what has improved, the rest will follow eventually. I think it's great to be able to settle her without picking up - I'm not even attempting that yet!

Feeling for you Tinier. Hope it goes OK tonight.

We had a terrible night - hourly wakings as predicted. Culminated in 6am up for the day, at least DS was awake and playing/crying in his cot. I just laid in bed crying until I could face getting up to feed him at 6.30. Not a good start to the day.

Oh well, m trying to focus on fact that he is now fairly reliably going into cot wide awake and settling in about 5-10 minutes and as we have baby group Thursday mornings, he is sleeping soundling for now .....(cream crackered from chasing all the other babies around)

Kayjyel - definitely, settling without picking up is fab. Focus on it. Must say don't know how you cope with multiple DCs. We are just trying for a our second now and I am *#&&ing myself. Much respect.

At least its Friday tomorrow - nearly the weekend!!

Thank you Gabster and Tinier . Gabster, sorry your night was so tough - the 6am crying I know well! Let it all out (and make sure you're getting lots of sympathy!). I am really pleased with progress so far. I need to get a bit of rest/energy to try to do the same settling in the night, but will have to put that off til after teething (secretly relieved emoticon!). Hope your days/nights go wellxx

Evening all - hows it going?

I have brill news which should motivate everyone!

We've had a super day for naps, in fact most of the week has been good on this score. Probably because DSs night sleep is so terrible . But our news - DS slept the full 2hrs hours lunch time without needing assistance for the FIRST TIME since we started training!!!! Its taken about 2.5 weeks I think. There is hope!!!

I have high hopes for tonight too because I've had half a mind that DS might simply be cold at night causing the frequent wakings (even though he's been in a body, full PJs and 3tog sack) so I bought him a new sack the other day. It's is like a duvet made into a bag!!! I would never use it in UK but as I live in Germany and everywhere seems to sell them and its -10c (yes, that's 10 degress below freezing and its only the beginning of winter) out there most nights, and goes down to around 16/17c odd inside, I thought I'd risk it. He's slept well in it today so lets see how we go tonight

Hi Gabster - fantastic! Great to see real progress, and 2.5 wks is nothing in the scheme of things. I think DD is much better at going down in the cot, and I can pat her to sleep now, but its made no difference to night waking (she's worse, really), so i think we just have to ride out the teeth. I have a stupid hope that once thats past then the positive stuff around going in the cot happy should help maybe with the wakings? Maybe thats just ridiculously optimistic. Medised made no difference to the wakings last evening, though I thought she was sleepier, she still needed help to go back, and was clearly in pain. Oh well, how are other people doing?

kayjayel - same here. DD is now going off quite nicely at the beginning of the night, sometimes even without patting, just shushing, but it's not making much difference to the night waking. She is also producing a tooth. But I'm trying to keep my resolve. I'm sure it will help in the long run. What I'm struggling with is trying to shorten the feeds at night as she's so sucky at the moment and she gets really angry when I take her off, which requires lots of patting to calm her.

Hello can I join you?

Been studying the NCSS and building up courage to start the process, your posts have inspired me to get going, so am going to start the pull off thing tonight.

DD is nearly 5 months. She was a champion sleeper to start with - 6 hours from birth, then it all went wrong at 3.5 months for about 3 weeks then ok again, then she got a cold and bronchiolitis and it all went very wrong. Got to waking every 30 mins for a bit. She is pretty much well again now. Last night we were at every 2 hours. As for napping that has always been a disaster - only guaranteed nap being in the sling on the move, not so good now it is so cold outside.

Anyway going to join your group and see how it goes....

Well, I have positive and negative news to report.

On the plus, DS slept well last night. Just a few wakings in the early evening, and then nothing until just after 6am - a few wakings and up for the day at 6.40am so not bad (although I did not even get up then because had a rough night so DH got up - bless him ).

On the negative - we have had the nap day from Hell!! DS woke 30m into lunch nap (not unexpected as suspected yesterday's not waking might take a while to root in) but there was no getting him back to sleep - we tried for 30m. Then he flat refused a catch-up nap in the pm - walked in the woods for an hour!!! [frustrated emoticon]

He has gone down OK tonight, early of course, (which is a miracle) but has woken after half an hour already so looks like we are in for a busy one tonight.

Hope you are all doing better.