Sleep training, cries for 2 hours straight? Normal?

[Lynstar05]

Hey guys, I am with a sleep consultant and doing gentle sleep training of parent stay and fade method. We are on day 2 and for all night time wakings, bedtime and naos it takes him over an hour to fall asleep at 1hour 20 mins of crying shortest and went 2 hours yesterday morning and still not asleep. He kicks ans screams and red in face. He is 6 months old.

Has anyone else found this? It makes me so sad and worried about him but desperate to help his sleep and for this to work. I never thought id end up doing this and feel guilty for him.

Every time I read about parents sleep training they always say 'It was horrendous, he cried for 15 minutes'. Well try 2hours!!

Words od encouragement and support or advice needed please :((.

Struggling first time mum X

@Sunshineaftermorningrain

Actually the apps can be very helpful, as can the diaries.

If it doesn’t work for you fine but falling about laughing? Not so funny on three hours sleep a night.

We’ve all been there. It’s bloody awful.

I don't get the mentality that babies need to be sleep trained and good as gold and easy to put down.
It's not bloody normal

Babies like to be held, comforted, close to you etc.i think people feel like because others have done it, then sleep training is The Thing To Do.
But why?!

Just put your baby into cot and pick up and sooth as required.
Then as they get older you can try things like patting to sleep and lullaby's etc and of they still want up for cuddles just bloody cuddle them

My 2 yr old needs me to stay by the cot and I sit whilst he faffs and plays bit then does settle and I pat or gold his hand. Last night he smiled as he closed his eyes holding my fingers.
I'd much rather that than making my baby feel like they are an inconvenience to me and reject love that they want.

Some babies just dont sleep, and there is no training them (I had one, it's horrendous). It sounds like you have a baby who doesnt like sleep. The best advice I have is to find ways to maximise your sleep. I spent years going to bed at 9 (3 minutes after DS had gone to sleep), and hoped to get 4 straight hours (DH doing the first wake). 4 straight hours a night, and I functioned.
Aged about 3, he finally got the idea noone else wanted to be woken, and that he needed to stay quietly in bed (until 5.30, which was the earliest we could bear). He is now at secondary, and I still hear him get up once or twice a night. I just haven't had to deal with him (illness excepted) in the middle of the night for a long time.

@Sunshineaftermorningrain

Actually the apps can be very helpful, as can the diaries.

If it doesn’t work for you fine but falling about laughing? Not so funny on three hours sleep a night.

You say this as if you're the only one.

No, we've all been there and it is made into a thing because we go into parenthood with an expectation babies should sleep through 7-7 which is just utter bollocks and puts unnecessary pressure on us.

For thousands of years we have given birth and raised children and yet now apparently we need diaries and sleep consultants. So you know why? It's because we've been made to fear our own choices and a "but my friends baby sleeps through so why isn't mine?" attitude and it's the industry making it this way because: Money.

It's a farce.
Yes it's a shitty period but it's short term in reality and you just have to get on.
We put ourselves through hell to make life easier for us whilst simultaneously making life shit for our babies who just want a cuddle.

@Horehound I really like your posts normally (recent name changer) and with newborns I totally agree. Can’t cuddle them enough.

But by the time they are getting to six/seven months it’s not so easy. They are bigger and harder to rock and soothe and settle and while I am not advocating leaving babies to scream I also think there’s a middle ground between two hours screaming and multiple wake ups.

What that middle ground is I don’t know. I do know the OPs baby will suffer no harm from last night so leave the guilt.

This sounds barbaric op and tbh I think any sleep consultant who allows this is absolutely shameful.

Your baby is 6 months old. Tiny. I think you need to seriously think about what you're doing.

And sorry but it’s complete rubbish to claim the ancient Greeks, the Saxons, normans, etc were all cuddling their babies to sleep right up until the generation before ours! They were more likely to give them a shot of brandy!

Too young to be left crying for that long. Daytime forget about about the cot altogether let him nap in the pram or car or anywhere. Night time put to bed in his cot and just keep popping back every five minutes to reassure him at six months he hasn't got the understanding that you are coming back.

@Horehound - totally agree with your post. It’s all about MONEY.

We have him totally dependent on us. He won't nap unless contact nap so im spending 3 to 4 hours a day on the sofa with him. Plus he needs to be rocked to sleep and that isn't working that much anymore he keeps kicking and squirming. Then he needs the dummy to go asleep so he wakes at night between 4am and 630am every 10 mins crying and needing us to give the dummy.

On top of all that he is co sleeping and moves all the time kicking me and crying waking himself up because he uncomfortable.

So its affecting our night time sleep on top our everyday life. How can do anything with my day when he will only contact nap?

This is all last resort because we don't know how to help the situation and we have done lots of research as we were totally against it for months and havefound mixed studies but most seem to suggest it is harmless in the long run if it just lasts for a short period.

I think you might be better asking mumsnet to move your post to a section designed for new parents or sleep issues as the posters might be more considered in their posts.
Lots of parents do sleep training at 6 months as some parents want babies sleeping through before their maternity leave ends.
My son had sleep issues until he was 4.5 - didn't sleep through the night until then.
At 6 months babies get stronger so they can fight sleep more easily. The first reason my son sleep disturbances was digestive issues and stomach pain / acid reflux- sorted by going on nutramigen and baby gaviscon.
And then it was because he wasn't eating enough during the day and was hungry. Fed him more solid food.
Then it was because he was itchy from excema we couldn't see. He would mole around in his cot. Sorted by dr prescribed antihistamines.
The it was because his day naps weren't right as these affect the first part of a child's night sleep. Put his day naps back later.
And then he would wake up by habit for a 2am feed. Sorted by dream feeding him at 1am.
By the time all his physical issues were sorted he had behavourial issues - sorted by doing a mini controlled crying of in the room 1 min and out the room for 1 min and the back again (first night it took 3hrs), 2nd night in room for 1 min out for 2mins (2nd night 2hrs), 3rd night in the room for 1min out the room for 3mins. I found with this mini control crying he didn't really cry that much. When we went into the room we would touch his leg so he knew we were there.
Perhaps look for physical reasons he won't sleep first. I am not familar with the fade technique but I am guessing it doesn't involve touching him like the technique I just described.
And don't beat yourselve up - you care enough to hire a professional of course you are inclined to try their advice but if you don't feel its right for your child than its OK to not do what they say.
Some posters are being very unkind since you are a new mum - you are posting here for advice and should get both advice and support. So just ignore them.

We have been doing this and doesn't work. He wakes a lot crying for dummy and because he can't move and get comfortable and kicks me in the back.

Well I have been doing all the things you said. We are trying to get him to go asleep in the cot now but he cries and cries so what are we to actually do? I would love some suggestions that could actually work. How do we stop him from need us to fall asleep and remain asleep?

You need to find another solution. Does he sleep in the buggy on a walk? In the car seat? Have you tried an automatic rocking seat? Sling?

@Lynstar05

We have him totally dependent on us. He won't nap unless contact nap so im spending 3 to 4 hours a day on the sofa with him. Plus he needs to be rocked to sleep and that isn't working that much anymore he keeps kicking and squirming. Then he needs the dummy to go asleep so he wakes at night between 4am and 630am every 10 mins crying and needing us to give the dummy.

On top of all that he is co sleeping and moves all the time kicking me and crying waking himself up because he uncomfortable.

So its affecting our night time sleep on top our everyday life. How can do anything with my day when he will only contact nap?

This is all last resort because we don't know how to help the situation and we have done lots of research as we were totally against it for months and havefound mixed studies but most seem to suggest it is harmless in the long run if it just lasts for a short period.

Your OP asked if him crying when you ignore him is “normal”. You have received many answers to this.

In your final paragraph you say that the sleep training “may be harmless”. Well, you’ve done your research and come to a conclusion already so what exactly did you seek to gain from your OP?

If it’s indeed “harmless” then crack on.

Yes he actually said we have a good routine and he gets a good amount of sleep overall, he is just far too dependant on us for his sleep. How do we stop that without allowing him to cry?

How did you manage exactly to get him asleep without rocking? He needs that and the dummy. He won't fall asleep with just dummy :(.

@ittakes2

I think you might be better asking mumsnet to move your post to a section designed for new parents or sleep issues as the posters might be more considered in their posts. Lots of parents do sleep training at 6 months as some parents want babies sleeping through before their maternity leave ends. My son had sleep issues until he was 4.5 - didn't sleep through the night until then. At 6 months babies get stronger so they can fight sleep more easily. The first reason my son sleep disturbances was digestive issues and stomach pain / acid reflux- sorted by going on nutramigen and baby gaviscon. And then it was because he wasn't eating enough during the day and was hungry. Fed him more solid food. Then it was because he was itchy from excema we couldn't see. He would mole around in his cot. Sorted by dr prescribed antihistamines. The it was because his day naps weren't right as these affect the first part of a child's night sleep. Put his day naps back later. And then he would wake up by habit for a 2am feed. Sorted by dream feeding him at 1am. By the time all his physical issues were sorted he had behavourial issues - sorted by doing a mini controlled crying of in the room 1 min and out the room for 1 min and the back again (first night it took 3hrs), 2nd night in room for 1 min out for 2mins (2nd night 2hrs), 3rd night in the room for 1min out the room for 3mins. I found with this mini control crying he didn't really cry that much. When we went into the room we would touch his leg so he knew we were there. Perhaps look for physical reasons he won't sleep first. I am not familar with the fade technique but I am guessing it doesn't involve touching him like the technique I just described. And don't beat yourselve up - you care enough to hire a professional of course you are inclined to try their advice but if you don't feel its right for your child than its OK to not do what they say. Some posters are being very unkind since you are a new mum - you are posting here for advice and should get both advice and support. So just ignore them.

We’re not “being unkind to a new mum” - we’re offering our (asked-for) advice.

Would you prefer us to lie?

@Garman

No, it's not normal to leave your 6 month old to cry themselves to sleep for 2 hours. Your sleep consultant should be ashamed of themselves, but then sleep consultants shouldn't exist anyway.

This. There is no need to do this, no reason at all.

@Lynstar05

We have him totally dependent on us. He won't nap unless contact nap so im spending 3 to 4 hours a day on the sofa with him. Plus he needs to be rocked to sleep and that isn't working that much anymore he keeps kicking and squirming. Then he needs the dummy to go asleep so he wakes at night between 4am and 630am every 10 mins crying and needing us to give the dummy.

On top of all that he is co sleeping and moves all the time kicking me and crying waking himself up because he uncomfortable.

So its affecting our night time sleep on top our everyday life. How can do anything with my day when he will only contact nap?

This is all last resort because we don't know how to help the situation and we have done lots of research as we were totally against it for months and havefound mixed studies but most seem to suggest it is harmless in the long run if it just lasts for a short period.

Have u got a carrier? I've found that a savior for daytime naps it means I have both hands free and can get one with things and keep my 3 year old amused. Unfortunately he will be totally dependent at that age but believe me it will get easier

We are co sleeping but its not working he still wakes a lot and takes over the bed and needs dummy every time wakes.

@Nonmaquillee what a nasty unhelpful post to a first time mum who admits in her OP she is struggling.

No, a lot of the replies on here haven't been helpful and have simply been a pile on.

OP if you are paying someone I'd suggest you go back to them with your concerns and and see what they advise. 💐

It's really normal for babies that age to be dependent on their parents for sleep. It's a pain in the arse but it's natural.

OP, can you teach him to sleep in the cot with you there patting/rubbing his back? Once you’ve done that sitting by the cot then moving further away?

Thank you for this. I feel like most people on here saying its horrendous are not in our position so they should not judge.

Also, we have done our research on sleep training and have weighed the pros and cons.

Also, its from guidance of a sleep consultant who has told us it happens and it will work. So it's hard to know what to do.

Do we just follow baby and be exhausted and have no life for another year or more? It could takes years for him to solve these problems.

Its a very difficult situation and don't appreciate people using such emotive language as we love our son and its been gut wrenching the last two days.

@Lynstar05

Yes he actually said we have a good routine and he gets a good amount of sleep overall, he is just far too dependant on us for his sleep. How do we stop that without allowing him to cry?

How did you manage exactly to get him asleep without rocking? He needs that and the dummy. He won't fall asleep with just dummy :(.

Your child should be dependent on you, it’s not something to discourage. I contact napped with DD until she was ready to stop at around 9 months. We co-slept until then too. Don’t rush your baby. Needing to be held is not wrong.

DD transitioned to nursery easily at 13 months and to sleeping in her own room at 15 months, largely sleeping through. She did it at her own pace with no crying whatsoever. There is no such thing as creating bad habits or dependency with babies, that’s dangerous old fashioned nonsense. Sleep consultants just want your money.