Sleep training, cries for 2 hours straight? Normal?

[Lynstar05]

Hey guys, I am with a sleep consultant and doing gentle sleep training of parent stay and fade method. We are on day 2 and for all night time wakings, bedtime and naos it takes him over an hour to fall asleep at 1hour 20 mins of crying shortest and went 2 hours yesterday morning and still not asleep. He kicks ans screams and red in face. He is 6 months old.

Has anyone else found this? It makes me so sad and worried about him but desperate to help his sleep and for this to work. I never thought id end up doing this and feel guilty for him.

Every time I read about parents sleep training they always say 'It was horrendous, he cried for 15 minutes'. Well try 2hours!!

Words od encouragement and support or advice needed please :((.

Struggling first time mum X

Do you feel like the sleep consultant is a good and trustworthy source of advice, OP - why aren't you asking her this? We used one and I think it was some of the best money we've spent but they do vary so much in qualifications, experience and approach - it's not a regulated industry.

Every baby is different, and it very much sounds like this method doesn’t work for your baby. My DS would have been exactly the same so I didn’t even try, although I had friends who sleep trained their babies easily.

What worked for me, was me lying down on the floor next to his bed and patting shushing, singing quietly anything to let him know I was there. He’d go off to sleep quickly when he knew I wasn’t going to leave. Gradually as his language developed I could tell him I was going to the kitchen/loo etc and he’d understand.

Sorry you're having a hard time with sleep. It does get easier naturally with time he's still very little only 6 months. I don't know the circumstances but this doesn't sound a gentle approach and the sleep consultant is misleading sleep deprived parents by calling it "gentle" - I think if you feel uncomfortable with it then that's your answer really x

My dad was a nightmare for sleep but at 6 months old I'd view it that this was too young. At six months I think he's too young. He is crying for nappy change, hunger or comfort. Have you tried tje gentle sleep book?
I know you must be feeling rock bottom with sleep deprivation but 2 hours of crying must be heartbreaking for both of you x

Why are you leaving your six month old baby to cry for so long?? He needs to know that you’re there. It’s cruel not to respond to him.

Does this “sleep consultant” have his or her children?

Wow, I'm sorry but this is awful. 6 months is far too young. Terrible of the sleep consultant to approve this!

How much does the “sleep consultant” charge you?

I’m deeply suspicious of people who prey on the concerns of exhausted new parents.

I think its too young. 6 months there is a lot going on for baby, I'm guessing they have just started weaning too. I would wait a couple more months or look at a gentler method.

We did it at 8 months and most crying was definitely under an hour with us next to him and that was pretty much a one off, after that it was never over 15-20mins of mild whinging.

If your baby is crying that long then he's either over tired or not ready for a sleep. Try and get naps in earlier. Or several short ad hoc naps rather than ones at a set time. Pram naps, car naps etc. None of mine wanted to be put down for a set sleep until nearer to one.

Please comfort your baby.

That first year is stupid hard but it does pass.

Is your partner helping?

I agree with pp, 6 months is probably too young. I did very very gentle 'training' (side car cot cuddling DS, then gradually I moved further away and put the cot side back on, then sat next to cot then got further and further away. No crying at all). But there was no way he was ready for it at 6 month. By 8 months he was and I could tell, by then he started to know his bed time triggers, cuddled in when we got ready for bed ect.

Everything I've read on getting babies to sleep (which is a lot), says to start with bed time sleep and leave night time wakings and naps till bed time is nailed. It's a lot lot harder for babies to fall asleep at night time because of their melatonin levels.

It sounds like he’s just not ready OP. Sleep is largely developmental - if he’s crying for that long, he’s not ready.

I would try tweaking your routine a bit to see if that helps - what are his naps like at the moment? And how many hours does he sleep overnight usually?

I can't imagine paying someone to tell me it's ok to let my 6 month old baby cry.

My DD is two now, she woke up last night, babies and small kids do. It used to drive me bonkers when "everyone else's" babies slept 8-8 at 6 weeks old and mine was still waking well past 12 months.

I think get your day sleep and mornings sorted and evening and nights will follow. My house is always up by 7am with work etc so first nap was about 9am, second nap 1pm, in bed again by 7pm. You will have instincts about your baby - you've posted here because you don't agree with your "Sleep Consultant", I'd follow your instincts if baby needs a contact nap still let them, that need is not something that can turn off in a baby or something you can train them out of.

Have a read of Sarah Ockwell-Smith gentle parenting!!!! Baby will sleep when baby is developmentally ready.

No sleep training is gentle imo

I think if you’re going to read and take away anything from this thread OP, it would be @Hardbackwriter - there was another helpful post too I think.

I have never left my baby to cry and I don’t think I ever would, barring occasions like say I’m on the toilet or he’s in the back of the car but I also firmly do not believe it causes any damage.

Yes, people will cite Romanian orphanages and the like but that is not caused by ‘leaving babies to cry.’ That is caused by 24/7 spent in a cot in a colourless room with no stimulation or comfort, ever.

There is no evidence whatsoever for attachment led parenting. It simply demands exhaustion from mothers (always mothers) for months on end. It’s awful.

OP you must be sleep deprived. My kids were both terrible sleepers at that age, waking every 15 mins to an hour. We tried sleep training with both. My daughter was having nome of it and would have cried indefinitely. My son cried for 5 or 10 minutes and then started sleeping through on the first day. I think it works well for some children and not others (hence the controversy). We didn't persist with our daughter after a couple of days and i think just muddling through the bad sleep phase as best we could with her was the right decision. It got a lot better from about 16-18 months.

OP I'm so sorry you're getting a rough time
on this thread. You haven't been explicit but I read from stay and face method that you did not leave your son for 2 hours crying as some people have suggested. But have been in the room, out the room, hand in cot, chair in room etc just not feeding or rocking to sleep.

I would step away from this thread and go back to your sleep consultant and say that 2 hours of crying means he's obviously either not ready for sleep yet or not responding to the method which therefore needs adjusting

Did you complete a sleep diary before agreeing the method? Most good sleep consultants will need at least a weeks worth of very detailed data before working out a personalised strategy for sleep. There is very rarely a one size fits all method

Sarah Ockwell Smith is fine to read if you are into that sort of thing but I’m very dubious about her.

Gina Ford is unkind to babies. Ockwell Smith is unkind to parents.

Speaking as a mum of teens who’s long past this stage: it’s a hard fact but you have to work it out yourself. You have to get to know YOUR baby. Chuck away the manuals and please stop paying these “sleep consultants” (FFS) good money.

I met a new mum recently and in all seriousness she asked me how I got through the baby stage without an app on my phone telling me what to do when. I was 😲😲

A baby isn’t a piece of machinery to be tinkered with like a car engine - do that, and this happens. It’s really very tough but YOU have to work it out YOURSELF. You have an instinct for a reason.

What Mothers Do by Naomi Stadlen is an excellent, reassuring read on getting to know your baby at his/ her own pace. No rules or routines. Relax and ENJOY.

I would also add that @FATEdestiny usually has some helpful and non judgmental advice on sleep and little ones

Hey OP,

If your gut is telling you that it doesn't feel right then I would listen to it and maybe wait a few months.

I know it's exhausting and solidarity for that.

@MyFartWillGoOn

OP I'm so sorry you're getting a rough time on this thread. You haven't been explicit but I read from stay and face method that you did not leave your son for 2 hours crying as some people have suggested. But have been in the room, out the room, hand in cot, chair in room etc just not feeding or rocking to sleep.

I would step away from this thread and go back to your sleep consultant and say that 2 hours of crying means he's obviously either not ready for sleep yet or not responding to the method which therefore needs adjusting

Did you complete a sleep diary before agreeing the method? Most good sleep consultants will need at least a weeks worth of very detailed data before working out a personalised strategy for sleep. There is very rarely a one size fits all method

I would step away from wasting time on writing sleep diaries 😂 and spend time with your LO. Stop working yourself into a frenzy.

Only one truth with small babies: they change ALL the time.

Actually the apps can be very helpful, as can the diaries.

If it doesn’t work for you fine but falling about laughing? Not so funny on three hours sleep a night.

There is a very good reason you feel sad & worried.

I’m not against sleep training as a concept in some situations (I think it’s fine for older ones who can understand bedtimes). But leaving a 6 month old to scream red in the face for 2 hours? Totally neglectful. 6 months is the absolute minimum age for sleep training and most babies won’t be ready. There’s not one method to get your kids sleeping. I co slept /night fed a lot with mine until they were around 7-9 months and guess what? I didn’t make a rod for my own back. They both slept through reliably from around that time in their own cots. IMO 6 months is just too young to gauge what sort of sleeper they might turn out to be later down the line. Don’t put yourself and your baby through this stress.