Feeling suicidal due to lack of sleep - 8 month old

[PocketRocket12]

Hi all.

I genuinely cannot take any more. My 8 month old wakes hourly, screams unless held and rocked and often is awake for hours on end. He will not co sleep, just screams and rolls around more until I stand.

We have tried various forms of gentle and more firm sleep training techniques out of desperation at 7 months. These improved my little one’s sleep and mood massively for a short while but due to a series of events (teething, illness and then moving in with our in laws), little one is more wakeful and hysterical than ever at night.

He is on three good meals, plenty of milk, is usually happy in the day and has only ever slept in his cot day and night - he doesn’t sleep in the car or pram. We have a good routine and have paid lots of money for sleep consultants etc who helped things improve for a short while. Health visitor also can’t offer any form of advice other than the usual (white noise, dark room, routine, food etc... been doing it all since he was tiny).

We are living with my in laws whilst we build a house (also stressful!) and they are very strongly against sleep training of any sort. I can’t bear the argument and fall out when they are being so kind and generous letting us live here for a while so I spend my nights rocking my son for hours on end so the rest of the house can get some rest.

I can’t see a way that our situation will ever improve whilst we live here (another 9 months here).

I am so emotionally exhausted. My husband has crashed his work vehicle twice due to exhaustion. Feel like an absolute failure of a mother. Every night at the 6th/7th wake up I plan how I might kill myself the following morning to make it all stop and to give my son a better caregiver to attend to his needs.

I can’t engage with him in the day properly as I’m so exhausted. I love him dearly but often feel I’ve made a terrible mistake.

Sorry if this sounds dramatic... I’ve slept 6 hours straight twice in 8 months... I didn’t think it was possible to feel this broken and still going.

I've been there and you have all my sympathy.

I don't care if people like it or not, but the only thing that worked was 3 nights of letting her cry it out. She has slept brilliantly ever since and is a far happier baby.

Hi @Lostmyway86. We have been doing sleep training for the last two weeks (we got sidelined the last 4 days as little one is poorly). He has never slept through from it but definitely sleeps so much better. X

@PocketRocket12

Hi *@Lostmyway86*. We have been doing sleep training for the last two weeks (we got sidelined the last 4 days as little one is poorly). He has never slept through from it but definitely sleeps so much better. X

That's brilliant really pleased for you! Sorry I hadn't realised this was an older thread! X

@PocketRocket12 you’ve been so proactive, it sounds like things are really heading in the right direction. From my experience, the sleep deprivation absolutely floored me and it is an ongoing journey to feel recovered from it (even months later). It takes a long time with lots of attention paid to prioritising sleep and rest for yourself. I can understand the looming worries around going back to work. I actually found it useful to get some balance but tiring in a different way! My best tip is to have a really nice lunch to get you through the day!

Hi everyone. I’m feeling overwhelmingly anxious to the point of being sick about my son starting nursery. He is 9 months now and he sleeps a lot better (still working on it but getting there). He is incredibly sensitive to his sleep needs and I’ve found that he needs atleast 2.5/3 hours in the day and a bedtime exactly 3.5 hours after his last nap to have a relatively settled night. Any deviation away from this (mainly the last wake window before bed) and he is hysterical at bedtime, wakes constantly etc. This is obviously a huge trigger for me, I’m still so traumatised from the extreme sleep deprivation I suffered and very nervous about relinquishing this control to someone else.

Does anyone have any advice about how to cope with these feelings? I know within a few weeks nursery will have a routine settled and will respect our routine as much as possible but my mother in law is also having him two days and has a more “he will fit in with me and drop when he’s tired” attitude. My son also only sleeps in his cot and she’s unable to walk upstairs with him (genuine health issue) so I worry how she will actually get him to rest? She is confident it will be fine.

SO

Advice around how to manage this intense anxiety
Real stories - did everything go ok with your little ones at nursery
Advice around how to explain the importance of my son’s routine to my MIL

thanks x

Glad you’re in a good routine now! Those thoughts totally consumed me before our DC started nursery @PocketRocket12, MIL would just call us and say he won’t go to sleep she would just put him in the cot and expect him to drop off LOL!!!! and nursery the cot is in the loud bright room, so I had days where I considered giving up work over it before he started because I though what is life going to be like? A screaming tired child every night and is just hating the only time we spend with him?!

Luckily it hasn’t worked out like that. The first 2 or 3 weeks were, I’m not going to sugar coat it, emotional. MIL was so set in her feet to foot, put him down drowsy but awake little world and just couldn’t get him to sleep as we could. The nursery tried but he would only do one cycle so 40 minutes all day. He did 2 days a week between 8-10 months and now he does 3 days a week.

Firstly, I noticed he actually worked better on nursery’s one long nap per day pattern, that’s what most kids tend to do in there so he’s slotted in with that, sleeping anywhere between 1-2hours after lunch. MIL has found a way of getting him to sleep, they just sit with him whilst he sleeps on the sofa. Some days he needs a little power nap on the way home in the car sometimes he doesn’t. There aren’t any tears though and his night time sleep has improved. I’m so so glad I was wrong. I thought it would be a disaster but it’s been the opposite.

Me and DP were very anxious about his sleep but now, we’re not so anxious about it because we’ve seen when he’s mega tired, he will sleep on a chickens lip. It’s not ideal to do that everyday but the 4 or 5 days in total that he had where he really didn’t sleep enough helped us to get him into a routine of dropping off on his own with us just holding his hand. Much improved from the hours of rocking, shhing, feeding and whatever else we used to do.

I don’t know what your DC will be like, but, one thing I’m definitely taking into my mindset for DS2 who’s due in sept is to not worry about it until it’s happened. He’s more resilient than I gave him credit for and everything turned out just fine. I’m pretty sure it will for you too, you’ve already done all the hard work and you’re fully qualified ‘sleep experts’ now after going through all of that😀 .

Oh @FTEngineerM that is reassuring. Were the first few weeks hard? Was little one overtired and fractious? I’m back at work 4 days a week and it’s just consuming every thought I have that I won’t be able to spend quality time with him on those days as he will be overtired or needing to be in bed by 5pm etc etc etc and repeat

First few times were a bit like thatthere were lots of conversations about are we doing the right thing, or he would cry in the car because he was so tired and sleep for 40 minutes then go to bed late but still being a bit whiney because he’d napped so late. It lasted about 4-5 days so for the two days a week we were sending him back then that was over 3 weeks really. Then something clicked, we checked the app one day and he’d slept 1 hour 40 and I ran into DPs office to show him 😂.

Now the loose routine for nursery days is up 7am breakfast and milk, there at some point between 8-9:30am depending on our meetings, we pick him up at some point between 4-5:30 again depending on meetings and how he’s slept. Then he has a little bit of our tea, maybe go to the garden/park now it’s lighter, then bath milk and bed at 7:30-8pm. We get a good hour, sometimes two with him in the morning and then 2.5 - 4 hours in the evening, me and DP alternate which one we ‘primary parent’ (morning or evening) so that he’s always got someone ‘funky fresh’, plus one of us gets a lie in then 😍.

When is your DC starting? Can your MIL do some practice runs before hand to get into the swing of the routine and how to get him to sleep? Better to do it now when you’re not at work than when you’re sat there in the office or worried about him not having slept for 6 hours. Everyone’s MiL will be different, so ours is very head strong and won’t really change her ways unless she thinks it’s a good idea. We just had to let her get on with it and then, once or twice, go down there when it had been too long in between naps and get him to sleep quickly. I think that prompted her to realise you can’t just put this baby down in a cot and say sleep.

Thank you for the honesty, it’s actually really helpful. I don’t actually know why I’m worrying so much... DS son woke every two hours crying last night despite being sleep trained and having two long naps, it never ends 🤣 I’ve heard 9 months is a tricky age so hoping it’s just a phase.

I go back to work in 4 weeks but he starts nursery this week one morning a week (to include a meal time and a nap time for practice) then will have two full days the week before I go back. I haven’t thought of practicing with my mother in law but could so that too. I am finding it harder for some reason.

Also probably worth saying @FTEngineerM that DS only sleeps in his cot at the moment. Usually can get him to go asleep by himself if I put him in drowsy and pat his back. This only works with me and occasionally daddy. He will not sleep in the car, pram, in anyone’s arms, with noise or distraction. MIL can’t take son upstairs to put in cot so she’s hoping he will get to the point where he’s so exhausted that he will just drop everyday....

@PocketRocket12 how have things been? I remember feeling absolutely besides myself with panic about my LO going to nursery and all the upheaval that conflicts with hard earned routines etc. It was tough going at first, as you’d expect, but a large part of that came from my own stress levels after surviving on such little sleep. I found that with an amazing team at the nursery, he settled into their way of doing things and they were really good at getting him to sleep (and eat, which was another issue he had!)

I think amongst all this comes a feeling of being out of control. I still feel it now- the ‘shoulds’ about bedtimes etc. The lack of sleep feels like being unable to control a basic human right and handing over to nursery makes it feel even less in your hands. Hopefully though, the experience and routines of nursery will be a positive influence and work (in some ways) will be a change of scenery for yourself. You must try and treat yourself when possible. In a way, you’re still in a recovery phase, not just from birth, but the chronic sleep deprivation.

My little one is coming up to ten months now…. still no sleep 🤣😭 the last few nights he’s had five hour stretches at the beginning of the night which has been a revelation but is very wakeful after that (every 1/2 hours) and still wakes for the day before 5am. He’s napping like a dream in the day still (2x1.5 hour naps no fuss) so I don’t understand why this doesn’t translate to overnight at the moment but I’m hanging in there. Those nap times are my protected rest time so worried about losing those in a few weeks when I return to work.

His first morning at nursery went well, he had so much fun and even had a little cat nap (not bad for the first day) so I’m starting to relax a little about that.

Today I saw 3 seperate mums post on their Facebooks how their babies (5m, 4m and 10m) are finally sleeping through the night and I actually feel in a pit. Like completely furious and angry and sad all at the same time and I’m not even sure who at? It’s literally fabulous news for them, I barely know them, why am I so cross? X

And thank you @thebearandthemare, you are totally right. After a good first settling morning at nursery I am atleast worrying less about my DS being happy, healthy and thriving there. He really seemed to enjoy it, settled well, ate well, slept a little bit. X

Bloody hell @PocketRocket12 that sounds fantastic, a great start, long may it continue😀.

One thing that’s for sure with babies… nothing lasts so whilst that includes the bad times, it of course includes the good times too. So whilst they maybe sleeping through the night right now, there’s nothing to say that will remain unchanged.

Think teething, coughs, colds, leaps.. argh.
It’s all a phase, good or bad, just a phase.

I didn’t see your previous message either sorry ☹️

Hi OP, just saw this thread now. So much sympathy/empathy. So so many parallels. In our case, a mix of CMPA, egg allergies and reflux, but completely eliminating allergens and medicating reflux only got us so far. 9/10 months saw a big change for us: how is his crawling/pulling up? Basically, we found that something happened that strengthened abdominal muscles and it was like a huge amount of the reflux discomfort was gone. Then we just had to deal with a baby who was used to waking every two hours and comfort breastfeeding. We were lucky: when I went back to work, around the same time, DH took parental leave for six weeks. We were also staying with in-laws while doing house work! It meant he co-slept and I slept in a separate room and expressed milk, so basically he did all the comforting in the middle of the night and offered a bottle, but it became clear after a couple of nights she mostly wanted a breastfeed, not the actual milk, was suddenly capable of not waking because of the discomfort, and so she started 'only' waking two or three times a night and being settled by some shush-patt-ing by her adjacent daddy. My in-laws were great at taking her in the morning for a few hours so we could go back and sleep.

With nursery, she took to it surprisingly well. In our case she never slept for her naps other than in a buggy/moving car, with them she napped ok from quite soon -not quite as long, but in a cot, which was insane. By th time we were both back in work, and she was fully settled - DH took about 6 weeks parental leave so she was in nursery from turning one - her sleep was transformed. He did night awakenings most of the time from age 1-2, largely because I was still feeding in the day and it was the only way to night wean her, also a bit as his 'turn': she was generally ok but we had some phases of co-sleeping.

Basically, I firmly believe sleep patterns like that are only caused by a medical problem. I was amazed how difficult it is for doctors to find out the problem in little ones. We had CMPA, egg allergy and reflux all diagnosed but also eczema, some contact skin reactions to fruit and veg, and still totally disturbed sleep like you're describing and basically we just had to wait it out. I always felt, as weird as it sounds, like she wanted to sleep but couldn't and I think I was ultimately proved right - but we absolutely had confusing obstacles like teething, or infections, or just her being stroppy because she was used to a comforting boob, and it was hard making sense of it all. She also did the perfectly happy for hours in the middle of the night unless you put her down thing. But totally, insanely awake.

I was also anxious about going back to work but it was honestly great, I went from never being away from her for more than two hours to loving getting to use my brain, and she thrived. I really hope the sleep nightmare starts to rapidly improve, I think the priority for you has to be your mental health, getting as much rest as you can, and recognising your self-care is step one to caring for the baby. Could you do a regular night with your sister? I really think people underestimate the important of a full nights sleep on occasion.

Oh wow @cindarellasbelly- I’m so sorry you went through all of that! I feel you. I have tried everything, feel like I’m going loopy! And then he will sleep for 5 hours occasionally and I’m like… he can do it! What’s not connecting? Did things ever get better for you? X

Oh and he’s crawling brilliantly, pulling up to stand etc. My MIL always said…

“If you gave him a bottle he would sleep”
“Once he’s on solids he will sleep”
“Once he’s crawling he will tire himself and sleep”
“Once he’s at nursery he will sleep….”

🤣🤣😭😭 as you can imagine, it’s a bit more complicated than that and those things has zero impact on sleep x

Things got so so much better, but it basically required waiting it out in our case, which I know isn't what anyone wants to hear. And a little bit of strategic 'assistance' which we only really did when we felt we'd noticed a change in her behaviours and wanted to see how far we could push it.

Between 9/10 months and a year: stomach muscles strengthened, reflux basically went away and we weaned off meds. Needed someone close by in the night as still regularly woke but essentially just needed someone nearby to pat her back to sleep for literally one or two minutes: so that was DH, who was able to get two 4 hour blocks of sleep a night. We possibly could have pushed some kind of sleep training but it was just easiest to have him co-sleep on a giant mattress in her room so they both were only awake for a couple of minutes then straight back to sleep. Around 18 months-2 years we managed to get her sleeping solo: we've had two patches since then when she's 'regressed' and woken up crying regularly every night for a couple of weeks, but usually its tied in with illness even if we haven't recognised it at the start. She also became a super reliable regular napper: still needs to be walked or driven to sleep at home but will be off in a few minutes.

So now I'm pregnant again, have a 2 1/2 year old who is a great sleeper and have convinced myself none of this will happen with the next one! But I remember well what it was like, I actually have blacked out some of the first year, I'm convinced the sleep deprivation was so bad my brain couldn't make long term memories! But she is a joy now, so so happy, I really believe she was just in constant discomfort for most of the first year.

I know it sounds mad @cindarellasbelly but actually editing it out doesn’t sound so awful. I mean, it really is awful, but I think at the moment we are in the “it can’t possibly ever get better” place and it’s good to know that actually, yes, it will get better. Any advice for me? I feel like he has a good routine, good amount of day sleep, goes down awake at bedtime, all the usual stuff you’re told will be the magic cure (yeah ok! 🤣) x

**waiting not editing!!

Hi all. Hope you are all doing ok. I am doing alright, having a low day today but they are less frequent than before which is a good sign. Can I ask how your child starting nursery impacted on their sleep? The good, the bad, the ugly? X

Deffo deffo sleep train but also book a night in a hotel the night before you start so that you can tackle it with a more rested and more clear mind so you won't give up if he screams for hours. If you've already managed it once before the upheaval you can do it again because you know for sure there's a positive outcome on the other side of it. Don't worry what your parents in law think- would you rather please them or be sleep deprived for the next year?

Oops didn't read the whole post.

My DD slept a lot better once she started nursery because she was so much more stimulated and tired and therefore able to switch off at night.

I feel exactly the same as your OP except DS is now 22 months. Fed up with being told it is just a phase- he woke every 45 minutes as a newborn, day and night for months, then we progressed to every 2 hours, no technique worked, no books, no HV recommendations, no changing diet, nothing. We are now on to waking at 4/5 for the day, climbing out of bed and running in even though the room is pitch black, screaming until sick until 10pm and waking throughout the night. No one has any advice or recommendations that work. Is there anyone else for whom this is not just a phase?