Feeling suicidal due to lack of sleep - 8 month old

[PocketRocket12]

Hi all.

I genuinely cannot take any more. My 8 month old wakes hourly, screams unless held and rocked and often is awake for hours on end. He will not co sleep, just screams and rolls around more until I stand.

We have tried various forms of gentle and more firm sleep training techniques out of desperation at 7 months. These improved my little one’s sleep and mood massively for a short while but due to a series of events (teething, illness and then moving in with our in laws), little one is more wakeful and hysterical than ever at night.

He is on three good meals, plenty of milk, is usually happy in the day and has only ever slept in his cot day and night - he doesn’t sleep in the car or pram. We have a good routine and have paid lots of money for sleep consultants etc who helped things improve for a short while. Health visitor also can’t offer any form of advice other than the usual (white noise, dark room, routine, food etc... been doing it all since he was tiny).

We are living with my in laws whilst we build a house (also stressful!) and they are very strongly against sleep training of any sort. I can’t bear the argument and fall out when they are being so kind and generous letting us live here for a while so I spend my nights rocking my son for hours on end so the rest of the house can get some rest.

I can’t see a way that our situation will ever improve whilst we live here (another 9 months here).

I am so emotionally exhausted. My husband has crashed his work vehicle twice due to exhaustion. Feel like an absolute failure of a mother. Every night at the 6th/7th wake up I plan how I might kill myself the following morning to make it all stop and to give my son a better caregiver to attend to his needs.

I can’t engage with him in the day properly as I’m so exhausted. I love him dearly but often feel I’ve made a terrible mistake.

Sorry if this sounds dramatic... I’ve slept 6 hours straight twice in 8 months... I didn’t think it was possible to feel this broken and still going.

Thank you @LBB2020 - sending huge hugs to you too. My son slept 3 hours straight tonight from 7-10pm and has been up screaming ever since. Makes no difference what I do, he just screams. There must be something medically contributing to this as it just can’t be normal to scream even when in my arms for hours on end and wake every 35/40 minutes screaming. I am at my wits end, struggling to look at DS now without feeling rage, despair, regret. Allergy test tomorrow, just need to survive the night x

Hang on in there OP but do insist on help from GP/in laws, DH, friends.
Sleep deprivation is truly horrible and is used as a form of torture. You're not alone.
Your in laws don't get to tell you how to parent just because you're living with them.
I hope things improve soon.
It's completely typical to feel very low on so little sleep, so do not beat yourself up about that.

Hope you’re both asleep now
Good luck for the tests tomorrow

Really glad to see you've reached out for medical help. Going private to a dermatologist made a big difference for us as she referred us straight into the nhs allergy services too as spotted the issue. Best £180 I ever spent.

And please be totally honest with your GP about how you're feeling. They're there to listen and help.

Really hope you're asleep now. Xxx

Call GP for yourself and baby. Also, assuming there's no medical reason for the wake-ups e.g. dairy intolerance, reflux, other allergy then hire a sleep consultant and sleep train. Your in laws are just going to have to accept it. Hopefully you will get results fairly quickly though it will take a while to fully establish. But even a bit of relief will help you.

I'm struggling with my little ones sleep, the sleep training helped immediately but due to cold it's gone back to normal and we will have to start again. Mine was also waking hourly and it just wasn't sustainable. Good luck.

you're not a bad mum, op. My first slept badly, when I had my second I could not believe how much easier it was. I didn't do anything different, he just didn't fight sleep.

You mention your family - would it be possible to stay with one of your own relatives for a few nights? I'm sure your in-laws are well meaning, but there's also quite a lot of passive aggression going on. Like they expect you to deal with sleep deprivation without taking action to address it, I imagine that feels like you're being judged. Babies pick up on stress, a few nights in a more relaxed atmosphere might help.

Do you know any other mums in the area? Just hearing that other people have a hard time too can help.

Have you taken him to GP? Are there any allergies?

Our DC used to wake every 40 minutes and it was CMPA and soya intolerance.

I remember walking around Tesco and thinking ‘if I steal that will I go to prison long enough for a really big sleep’ then I started looking for better items that would make sure of a good nights rest, I felt bonkers.

Didn’t actually steal anything of course but the desperation is real.

If he’s waking every sleep cycle there’s something physically making him uncomfortable. You’re absolutely right it is not normal. He’s probably in a cycle now of being extremely tired and that’s not helping.

Sorry just to add, I’ve read all your posts now.

Eczema and the fact daytime sleep is ok screams intolerance, night time as the melatonin levels in the blood rise is suppresses cortisol (which, get this, not only keeps you awake during the day but it has an anti inflammatory affect)!! So intolerance sufferers almost always get worse symptoms at night.

IGNORE THE FACT YOUR GP SAID NO to allergies, mine still doesn’t acknowledge it after 6 visits and progressively stronger prescriptions of steroid cream.

Strip the diet back entirely, chicken and rice and carrot or something super bland, you’ll have to do it too if you breastfeed once a day, the milk you get him may need to change if you want to carry on using formula.

We were in the same mess at 4-8 months old and it’s over now we’ve figured out what caused it. He started sleeping through almost immediately. I was at rock bottom, as you sound, please try and figure it out. IMO GPs do nothing for these types of symptoms and just scratch their heads.

Our boy had a milk and soya intolerance and we had to fight and fight with gps to change milk , he done nothing but cry for 8 months , just want to say big hugs , first things first make sure there’s nothing wrong with the baby at all no health issue etc , if the wee one gets a clean bill of health then I’d suggest controlled crying we done it after we got our sons milk sorted (he had for so used to us holding him every hour of the day and night that he would not sleep in his cot ) I actually lost it and was on suicidal watch from gps mental health team and family members my husband was bearly keeping it together (no wonder) so we decided all we could do was controlled crying aka bath and bed straight into cot in his own room , after a bottle the first night he lay crying for over an hour but we watched him on camera to make sure he was fine and after that time he fell asleep 2nd night was 45 mins of constant crying and then he fell asleep 3rd night took about 25mins of constant crying and by the 4th night he lay there for 5 mins tossing and turning not crying and then fell asleep , we have never looked back he’s now 2 and a half and walks into his own room and we help him into cot after bath and book he wishes us good night and that him until morning , my friend who’s daughter is younger than our son kept putting it off after we told them what we had done and after 3 months of hell the tried it after 5 days she called me crying happy tears that it actually worked for them too ! Please don’t listen to your in laws this is what’s best for you ! Your being such a good mum admitting how you feel !!! Keep going I promise you will be ok xxxx

If your in laws claim not to hear him, crack on with the controlled crying.

Thank you @FTEngineerM. That does sound like my little one. It hasn’t always been this bad, can intolerances get worse over time? How do I go about working out what the intolerance could be? Eliminate all foods bar the basics and see if it makes a difference? Change formula milk straight away or? Sorry my brain isn’t thinking clearly xx

@PocketRocket12 I know the comment wasn’t for me but yes left untreated in children intolerances can get worse , I would take your child all the way back to being just bottle feed for a while witch is still fine at this age if he/she is still suffering it’s been the milk all along get to the gp and request a 2 week supply of dairy free milk you should start to notice a difference in like 4 days once all the other milk has passed threw there system , if this doesn’t help ask for their dairy and soya free milk once again give it 4/5 days if you don’t notice anything different ask to be referred to child’s unit as you need help xx

Sorry I've not rtft, I've just read your posts.
My daughter was like this. I'll be honest. We did cry it out. I don't mean controlled crying. I mean we left her for an hour. She didn't cry hysterically but did cry. For over 40m she was definitely winding down. The next night it took 30m. The next night it took 10m. The next night she slept through.

I'll be honest again and say now she's 6yo I look back and don't feel entirely comfortable with this decision. I do feel guilty. However I really don't know what we could have done differently. We had tried everything else. She wouldn't co sleep. More gentle sleep training methods were really genuinely winding her up more. She was also broken by lack of sleep herself. 3 nights, it was done, and we were all better for it.

Have you been giving more formula over time or has it always been mostly formula and one breastfeed?

It can be drastic removing pretty much everything from the diet, this form helped that the sleep consultant we hired recommended (she didn’t say to actually pay Shel unless we had the spare cash but she said it’s good to see the types of foods that most commonly cause intolerances) we didn’t actually use her service other than to check which foods we should start eliminating, dairy and soya did it then MN helped with which formula to switch to from EBFing (aptamil pepti but that’s still milk it’s just hydrolysed so whether that works would depend on the level of intolerance).

shelbanks.co.uk/allergy-questionnaire

It could be anything but most commonly it’s dairy and soya, good place to start and it’ll do no harm, if you get positive results then go to GP and see dietitian and so on.

I don't really have any extra advice than what has been posted but didn't want to read and run. Having a baby is THE hardest thing you'll ever do, never mind living in a house that's not your own whilst waiting for your to be built! I have a friends who's baby was exactly like yours, would never sleep and was just a complete nightmare for naps and bed time - constant waking, wouldn't be soothed, nothing would work. The 1st birthday marked the end of that awful chapter for them and they're so much happier now. It does end, it won't be like this forever even if it feels never ending. Definitely push the GP further for help and seek help for your own mental health and please do persevere with sleep training regardless of what your PILs beliefs are - you have to deal with this all night, not them, so they don't have a say (and if they can't hear him crying at night, how will they know you're sleep training?!). I hope things get better for you all soon x

@SpiderinaWingMirror

If your in laws claim not to hear him, crack on with the controlled crying.

Ops baby sounds like he might be in pain, the needing to be held up and the screaming for hours on end. Also,the baby is teething and is only 8 months old so may still need to be fed during the night. It's really not as simple as just leaving the baby to scream all night.

I had terrible night sleepers with reflux. The one thing I struggled with was people saying their babies slept through the night..... all mums seem to have their own definition one mums was midnight to 4am..... it used to drive me insane that mine didn’t sleep. We coslept (not much sleeping) and apart from going to the toilet I refused to leave the bed at night so no standing up, going for a wander mostly as it made me feel dizzy. I would reinvestigate reflux and you are doing the right thing checking for allergies. I’d drop the formula and go to only breastfeeding if possible as you know what you’ve eaten and what’s in it compared to formula products. We took the side off a cot and the clamped it to out bed with clamps made it level on books. So they could get pushed in there when they slept.

My DS only breastfed, I went back to my hobby when he was 13 weeks 1 night a week 7-10pm honestly it saved my sanity! Having something just for me and to relax for those precious few hours. My DH would sling DS for those hours if he wouldn’t sleep. I can only recommend you carve out sometime that is just for you - it really helped my mental health and my ability to cope with the rest of the week.

@FTEngineerM He was exclusively breastfed for the first 5 months of life and has gradually been introduced to more bottles. Now all daytime feeds are bottles and bedtime is breast along with nightfeeds as he refuses bottle at night. It wasn’t always like this... he used to wake every 2/3 hours and it was a quick cuddle or feed and back to bed. Sleep training was relatively successful for a short while. This recent escalation in wakes and night time behaviour has been going on seriously for about 4 - 5 weeks. Thanks for all your advice and support. X

This sounds very like my son, he woke screaming every 30-90 mins until he was 2 years old, then it stretched to every 1-2 hours. I was absolutely exhausted and essentially had a bit of a breakdown when he was 18 months old. Mil took him one night, one, and he woke 9 times and she absolutely ate us the next day blaming us entirely for his poor sleep.

It turned out when he was 3.5 years old that he had multiple things wrong including glue ear, enlarged infected adenoids and 3 other things, which combined to give him sleep apnea, for all the previous years. Consultant said he would've been feeling pressure and pain in his head anytime he lay down to sleep and was jolting awake unable to breathe.

Could you get him checked out for ear infections that might not have been symptomatic, like ours? Or any tonsil or adenoids issues which could be blocking his airways? Or allergies such as grass, dustmites, etc.

Ok, then yes it would seem like it’s got increasingly worse with the formula.

Give aptamil pepti 1 a go or go back to bfing what ever suits, and cut dairy from his diet for a fortnight.

Good luck, I hope it improves quickly for you❤️

Thank you @PocketRocket12
DS managed blocks of 1.5 hours last night which was an improvement! Luckily when he wakes he’s quickly settled with a breastfeed, it’s definitely more for comfort than hunger. I tried going dairy free for around 2 months but it didn’t make any difference, I think this is just a phase/regression that we have to ride out. I hope the allergy tests go well for you today x

Hi again OP, if it got worse with the formula it's most likely to be CMPA (dairy), and maybe also soy and eggs. They are the three most common allergies and intolerances for infants. The fact there's eczema involved suggests the same. Has the eczema got worse since you increased the number of formula bottles.

Chat about all this to the allergist today. As well as doing skin prick testing they should be able to prescribe a formula. Hopefully then your GP will listen - it's true what a PP said that GPs can be useless on allergies a

Thank you. I had ruled out CMPA in my head as I was not dairy free when breastfeeding but keeping an open mind now as his eczema isn’t responding to treatment. Had a frank chat with my in laws this morning who were woken last night by his protests... I explained that if he is medically given the all clear that DH and I need to respond differently to DS in the night now as the sleep deprivation is seriously damaging my mental health. They’ve change their tune a bit... perhaps now they’ve lived with it a bit they can understand what I’m going through. FIL did say protests at night sounded like protests / quite cross as apposed to crying / distress. Taking one step at a time and need to cross of health issues first for my own peace of mind and for my son x

@PocketRocket12 you are doing such a great job. I’ve been there with my now 2 year old and I’m not being dramatic when I say it absolutely broke me. I felt like I was losing the plot and was a shell of myself, I’m only slowly recovering now and feel panicked if I think back to that time. I don’t know what the cause of the poor sleep was and feel guilty that we’ve never got to the bottom of it but he has outgrown the issue now. Things improved for us (slowly) when we were able to drop night feeds but I’m not sure what age that is advised from.

I wish I could offer some great suggestions but I think you’re doing all of the right things and getting him checked for a medical issue sounds very sensible. Alongside that, I would do everything in your power to take care of yourself and be especially mindful of your well-being. Keep reaching out for support (MN can be a very valuable part of that). This will pass but in the meantime it’s pure survival mode

Glad it sounds like PILs are seeing the situation for what it is. I'm sure having them onside will be a huge help.

Good luck today. In terms of ruling out CMPA, I did exactly the same but my daughter's was actually quite severe became very obvious when she started eating dairy in her own diet at 7 months (skin peeling off etc). It maybe that your son's is more subtle but still uncomfortable for him - what they call a "non-IGE allergy". Hope the allergist is really helpful today and you get some answers.

If you keep breastfeeding and you need to go dairy free do come back here if you need advice on good df foods