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Waiting it out

449 replies

burritofan · 18/09/2019 20:28

Is anyone else following the extremely vague and lazy "wait it out and hope it spontaneously resolves itself, maybe solids/crawling/walking/time/eventual night-weaning/magic/bribery once she can talk or be reasoned with" baby sleep plan?

We're nipple-deep in the four-month regression, which followed fast from the 8-week-jabs endless night poo era, then the 12-week hourly waking growth spurt. Throw early teething,

a late tongue tie division and a crap reaction to 16-week jabs into the mix – all in the same week! Which is when she migrated from Snuzpod to sleeping in my armpit – and you get a shitstorm of night wakings, my solution to which is:

plonk baby (now 21 weeks) in bed with me each night – after first making comatose with boob after rock-solid bedtime routine – and reapply boob as needed. Sometimes sleepily snuggling works in the middle of the night. Sometimes she wakes, babbles, pats around to check I'm there, and resettles. (Rare as a unanimous AIBU? thread, but like sunshine when it happens!)

Sometimes we start the night with a 3-hour chunk, other times 45 minutes. Some nights she wakes up only 4 times, others what feels like 4,000. Very little crying unless more teeth/colds, in which case howling then calpol and boob and a lie-in if she grants it. (I know the advice is to wake at the same time each day but (a) the baby wakes herself at the crack of dawn most days and when she doesn't (b) if she was up for two hours howling because of her teeth, I'm not going to enforce a wake-up for the sake of some Gina Ford nonsense.)

The 45-minute wake-ups are guaranteed if I put her down in her sidecar crib now, or even if leave the room – sometimes she wakes straight away if I try to swap with DP. Even in deep sleep she has a batlike sense for my being in the room. She generally starts the night starfished on the bed; as the night goes on she gets more unsettled and likes my armpit to snuggle into best. Perhaps it's the woolly mammoth furriness?

She's not great at feeding lying down but I'm persevering because I'm lazy. Occasionally I attempt the pull-off thing of putting my finger in her mouth to delatch once she's asleep but I'm too knackered to do it consistently or time it to gradually reduce feeds, I think I'm doing it in a half-hearted "gosh I really should sort this sleep thing". Mostly I do it so I can go to sleep if I'm feeding sitting up. I've no idea how to shhhh-pat; PUPD seems like an awful lot of effort with a heavy baby when I could be lying down, and deeply confusing; gradual chair or whatever makes me want to weep with exhaustion more than the current situation; CC or CIO is neverrrrrrr going to happen. On the other hand, I have wistful recollections of evenings, of my lovely DP, of times when I ate dinner somewhere other than over a snoozing baby's head in the dark...

Basically is anyone else doing what I'm doing to improve their baby's sleep, i.e. not very much at all, and wants to commiserate while we ride it out, slash create bad habits, construct towering Jengas of rods for backs, build sleep crutches, and generally arse it up? Any experienced "totally winged it and it worked out fine" mothers want to share delightful stories of "Oh one day he just pushed the boob away, fell asleep and did 12 hours and it's been a fairytale ever since, I got my bed and my sex life back" lazy parenting magic?

DP & I are softies who plan on an open-door policy of "if the kid can't sleep because of nightmares or growing pains, come on in our bed, they're only little", have fond memories of childhood shenanigans of sleeping on the landing or sneaking down to see what the grown-ups are doing, BUT also have no interest in "giant floor bed co-sleeping til 20" and quite like each other and the idea of the kid in her own room eventually, it would be nice to have some hope.

::rambles on in a sleep-deprived manner while teething DD snores on my shoulder, preps coffee machine for tomorrow, hopes there are other chaotic parents out there doing the absolute least::

OP posts:
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bottomflannel · 23/10/2019 02:12

I hope not to be seeing you in an hour and three quarters Whuut and that you have a halfway decent night. Same to everyone else.

DS2 and I have been awake for two hours now. Seems he’s finally caught the cough that DH and DS1 have been struggling with the past couple of weeks. Thankfully I’ve avoided it so far - can only imagine how much fun it would be to try to keep a baby asleep while suppressing coughs all night. I’m so going to get it now, aren’t I...

He’s finally almost passed out on my lap now after looking and acting alarmingly awake since 12 (had to saline drop and de-snot him, which didn’t help) despite feeding, rocking, shushing and patting. Does anyone else get a slight surge of panic in the early hours when the usual things aren’t working to get baby back to sleep?

Safe to say I’m wide awake now, and scared to lay him down in case he wakes up and we go through the whole sorry saga again. Ugh! Poor baby.

Whuut · 23/10/2019 08:57

Oh @bottomflannel sorry you had a rubbish night and that DS is unwell, did you manage to get back to sleep? Neither me nor DS have been ill since he was born, I'm dreading it when it does happen. Definitely get the surge or panic, I end up just preparing myself for being awake for a couple of hours, of course then if DS does drop off I'm wide awake. Like you, I always dread putting him down when it's taken a while to fall asleep.

We had a surprisingly good night, by that I mean we woke every hour. But, up for the day at 7 so, much better than I thought it would be. DS had really bad reflux when he was little, constantly projectile vomiting, it was horrible. I thought he'd grown out of it because it got much better when he was about 5/6 weeks but I think its come back a little. This last week he's been very very sicky(more than usual) and it seems to be upsetting him. He wont let me put him down for naps unless in the bouncy chair as I think its uncomfy.

OhHolyNightWaking · 23/10/2019 11:24

Urgh, car hysterics are the worst. Sorry for those of you struggling with that. DS and DD both went through phases of it and it's so stressful. DD seems to be past the worst now thankfully, but still sometimes has a bad day if she's in a leap and I have had some really awful days of multiple screaming journeys. It's so stressful and reduced me to tears on multiple occasions. Luckily she doesn't mind the pram (although I seldom attempt a nap in there as I'm too chicken!).

The ginger beer anecdote is truly hilarious. Love it!

Today has gone awfully wrong already, so we are on the second (restless, on boob!) nap of the day! Dear God...

bottomflannel · 23/10/2019 12:24

Thanks Whuut - we got a bit of sleep but up and down, and started our day at 5am. He’s so miserable, bless him.

Sorry that your little one is struggling with reflux again, poor mite. It’s horrible having to watch them suffer.

burritofan · 23/10/2019 13:25

OK, HOW are you supposed to fit in overnight sleep, naps, settling them for naps (by which I mean sling or pram or boob), boob on demand (ENDLESS BLOODY BOOB SHE'S AT IT DAY AND NIGHT), solids an hour after boob so they're neither full nor fractious for milk but also solids soon after a nap so they're not exhausted, and clearing up, and playtime so they can learn to crawl, and perhaps include the dizzy heights of a shower or lunch for yourself, and the bedtime routine, in 24 hours?

I have done the calculations and it can't actually be done, everyone's lying. Sorry everyone's sleep is crap no matter whether it's boob, car, pram, sling or self-settling in a cot (lol)

PS I am covered in banana

OP posts:
tootiredtothinkofaname · 23/10/2019 13:58

Hi all, hope you don’t mind me joining. I’ve been lurking on here for ages but never posted - but I could have written any of your posts!

I have a 4 month old DD and she has been super fussy since birth - hates the car, pram, being put down, bottles, you name it. Although slightly happier these days, she refuses to nap and I spend around 40 mins, 3 times a day, trying to get her to sleep. Mainly bouncing her while she screams in my ear. Then she only stays asleep if I hold her!

I really hope she suddenly grows out of this because I have no idea how to fix it otherwise. Any tips for not going insane in the meantime?!

P.S. Sorry you are all suffering as much as I am!

Littletoaster · 23/10/2019 14:45

I was so out of it last night that when DD woke at 3 am I turned to my DH and said 'that effing octopus woke her up again'. Weirdest thing is I have no recollection of saying this!

DDs napping after a busy morning at childcare. I should be napping too but too many chores to do. Ugh.

lambdroid · 23/10/2019 15:31

Hi all,

Sorry for radio silence. We've been taking drastic measures after reaching my limit and...finally, we've had some improvement. She also miraculously just started taking a bottle again and will now drink formula which is good as I can't express enough to make a bottle viable option otherwise.

To recap, my terror has just turned 7 months and was waking 5-8 times a night, sometimes doing a 2 hour stretch but mostly lots of 60-90 minute stretches. We also had the whole 'hours awake at 3am' thing too, though managed to avoid the 'hours of rocking/patting to settle' after the newborn days.

I now put her down at 7:00, then feed her again when she wakes, sometimes at 8:30 but now more usually at 9:30. If it's an early wake up, then I also feed her at 9:30/10:00 and go straight to bed in the spare room (with white noise and earplugs!!). My partner does the 12:00 wakeup and I take over at 2:00 or 3:30 depending on how tired he is. Sometimes I only get woken up once now!

At first, it was taking him 40 mins to an hour to settle her both times, but after a few days it was down to 20 minutes and after nearly 2 weeks, they're down to 10 minutes. Last night she only woke up 3 times (though was awake for over an hour at 3:30 with me).

I can hardly describe the improvement to my life. I haven't cried in over a week, I've cooked, I've made it out of the house to do fun things...

To be honest, if I wasn't so relieved to have some kind of a life back, I'd actually be pissed off with my partner for not stepping up sooner. I had to reach breaking point and beg (sobbing) for him to even try helping but me not being there seems to have made a massive difference in a short amount of time. I don't think it's the formula as she has a bottle before bed one day a week when I work and that doesn't make a difference to the first stretch.

A few things for people after reading the thread, sorry for the epic post:

@Whuut - my first was pretty dreadful up until 12 weeks, then magically started doing longer without me changing anything so there is hope. I didn't really do any 'proper routine' stuff for him, always fed him to sleep and it worked out ok in the end.

@Harrysmummy246 - have you guys tried dropping the nap yet? I was having hellish 2 hour bedtimes with my first who was 2 in June. Cut his nap out, had a tough week of awful grumpy evenings but has now adjusted, is no longer grimy in the evening, is happy to go to bed and goes down so easily. I wish I'd done it earlier!

@tootiredtothinkofaname - my second has been like this. Hard work, cried a lot, wouldn't go to other people (still not great), screamed in the car, screamed in the pram. Aaaargh. 7 months now and I feel like she's finally getting easier. Definite improvement since she's able to scoot around a bit, pick things up and do things herself etc. Genuinely haven't liked her much after the sleepy newborn stage where she was lovely, but feel like we're slowly becoming friends now.

@burritofan - it's not possible! I shove food into mine whenever I can manage it and she seems hungry. Sometimes we skip meals and she just has milk because I can't fit it all in. Sometimes my toddler has pasta for lunch and dinner, or carrots three days in a row, or watches seven billion hours of TV, or only has one bath a week etc. Sometimes that still feels like winning. Banana is totally high fashion wear too, don't worry :P

Harrysmummy246 · 23/10/2019 16:07

@lambdroid

We're in the some days he does and some days he doesn't phase. He didn't nap at nursery yesterday but wasn't a horrible tires mess either and still took 40 minutes to go to sleep but it was by eight and I can live with that.

He's just had 15 minutes in the car returning from the zoo today so we'll have to see if that's enough

Whuut · 23/10/2019 19:16

Ah the crap sleep crew expands, welcome @tootiredtothinkofaname. Fitting name, sorry you're here.

@Littletoaster that made me laugh, I come out with some weird things when I'm half asleep, even before DS.

@lambdroid Welcome back, so glad to hear things have improved for you! A rare thing for us lot it seems. And that DP has stepped in to help more. DS is now 4months and is getting harder and harder to get to sleep. Like your DD, he will now take a bottle. Yay! Not at night time though, we've been trying the past few nights with DP giving him a bottle and he just goes insane, when I finally go in he instantly starts grabbing at my top. I have a feeling he's not going to let DP put him to bed any time soon, sigh.

Teddyreddy · 24/10/2019 22:08

@burritofan with no 2 I just imposed my /DC1's (then about 2.5) meal schedule. We had 3 meals a day plus 2 snacks. If DC2 was awake I bunged her in the highchair and offered her food irrespective of how long ago she'd last had a breastfeed, if she was asleep I let her sleep. Fingerfoods sometimes kept her quiet long enough I could run around the kitchen like a mad thing trying to return it to some sort of order...

DC3 continues to sleep extremely well in the sling and not at all anywhere else during the day. My back is now slowly starting to kill me, and my guess is he is still months off any form of improvement....

Whuut · 25/10/2019 07:27

@Teddyreddy Remind me how old your little one is? The sling naps can be a killer, thankfully DS will nap in the pram now- sometimes.

How's everyone getting on? We went to a group yesterday where a woman was saying her DS has just started taking really short naps(30mins), I said yeah same with us, her reply "I just don't get it, night time is fine, still 7-7." I nearly walked away without a word.

DS has started going to bed, waking 45mins later for another feed and then doing his first 'long' stretch after that. He never used to have the wake up so soon, not sure why it's happening but he wont let me rock him back to sleep, he cries for boob. I don't mind giving it I'm just confused as I try and fill him up in the evenings before bed and he feeds to sleep. Just another fun mystery I'll spend hours trying to solve. He only woke 3 times late night, crazy I know, but woke for the day at 5.30.. I think its improvement, I feel slightly more human today.

@burritofan Its absolutely not possible. The group I went to yesterday was a weaning group, I'm dreading it. Gonna keep DS on just boob til hes a couple of years, don't have brain space for anything else!

burritofan · 25/10/2019 08:32

Thank you, @Teddyreddy and @lambdroid for weaning advice! We're a week in and I'm already doing exactly as you've suggested: bunging food her way when she's awake and happy, not if she's not. All a bit erratic but fun. She had 4pm porridge yesterday; never again, she's going to be on non-messy toast til she's old enough to clear up. Who ARE the people who make Miniature Grated Carrot BLW Breakfast Muffins (GF, DF, SF) as seen on Pinterest?

lambdroid I'm so pleased for you! Sleeeeeeep! Lovely sleep. Sorry you had to reach breaking point to get it, but WELL DONE on whatever witchcraft helped your plan succeed.

Whuut This is DD's pattern to a T! Awake after 45 minutes then a long stretch. Well, 2.5 hours last night, so redefining meaning of the word long. And that first wake up MUST be boob. Whereas in the middle of the night after the Singing Hour I cuddled her back to sleep. Secretly jolly nice to have a baby cuddling on your chest.

Also I hate that 7-7 woman on your behalf.

Teddy Will DC3 at least let you sit down in the sling? I'm blessed with DD letting me sling nap at home on the sofa. Have a friend who has to keep marching, outdoors only, and ONLY uphill. Like the kid is trolling her.

@tootiredtothinkofaname Ah, you have my breed of baby. At six weeks she could barely do 20 minutes nap BUT also barely do an hour awake either Hmm I was bouncing her 6-8 times a day, losing my miiiiiiiind. It got better gradually? She falls asleep in the pushchair, upright, now, which blows my mind. Four months is tough. (Lol it's all tough.) Do you have a sling/carrier or are you bouncing solo? Try doing it on a birthing ball for ease.

You don't have to do anything to fix it, she will grow out of it. It will change, promise. Probably to something else irritating! But almost certainly with less screaming. As for not going insane. Um. Make many terrible jokes in this thread? Eat entire packets of biscuits? Headphones and music while you rock her, since she's screaming anyway. Wine. Coffee. Chanting "They're only little for such a short time, THANK GOD".

OP posts:
OhHolyNightWaking · 25/10/2019 08:51

We're definitely back to hourly waking (I had hoped the other night was a blip). Last night was just HORRIBLE!! It's bloody depressing.
Although I think her top gum looks like another tooth may be on the way down so... maybe that's why! Who fucking knows.

7-7 woman deserves a slap. Oh God, can you imagine how wonderful that would be? My DS sleeps pretty well now (3) but even he doesn't really do 7-7. Hmm

Our naps are so erratic. Generally she has two. Although I have to stretch awake times between them quite thinly some days. The other day she had two twenty minute naps before midday. Then did a mammoth nap in the sling at 3pm.
I have the Lucy Wolfe nap schedule saved as wallpaper on my phone, but it just makes me want to weep!

Does anyone else wonder if babies sleep "properly" if they're suckling for the entire nap. DD does sometimes unlatch but often is sleepy suckling the entire time. A mum made a comment about how that isn't "proper sleep" and now I'm it is all I can think about. Shock

bottomflannel · 25/10/2019 09:27

So apparently the shit sleep we’ve been having was just shit sleep and I think we’ve now hit the 4-month sleep regression in earnest. He’s started being Wide Awake at points in the night and refuses to feed back to sleep for an hour, sometimes two. But he must also be being rocked and shushed at all times otherwise he gets loud and risks waking my 8-year-old. He’s also got a stinking cold, so that’s not helping. He threatened to start the day at 4.55am but I rocked and shushed for ages and he eventually went back to sleep in my arms until 6.45am. My back is wrecked. This too shall pass, this too shall pass

burritofan · 25/10/2019 09:39

A mum made a comment about how that isn't "proper sleep"
SLEEP IS SLEEP. Humans have been doing this for thousands of years! Someone said similar to me, too, oh-so breezily: "Only cot naps in the dark count, sling and pram naps are just junk sleep."

WTF. I fretted about this for weeks.

But I am NINE THOUSAND PER CENT certain that cave people were not blowing out the fire at nap time and putting the baby down on a clear flat rock. They were boob-napping and slinging the baby in a Fred Flintstone-style animal skin and not worrying that this was the sleep equivalent of a deep-fried woolly mammoth burger.

Medieval peasants were not faffing around with cot naps in-between tilling fields for their feudal overlords. I bet you Ma in Little House on the Prairie strapped those babies on to the boob all day so she could bake endless vinegar pies for her drunk husband. Renaissance mothers probably lounged around in shells with flowing hair and their boobs out and babies napping on them. (I am not a historian.)

I hope this mum gets eaten by a sabertooth tiger.

Sometimes babies need a big old deep sleep nap, and they go ahead and do it in sling or pram or arms or anywhere but a cot. And sometimes they need a little boob doze, like a freshener!

Yes, boob dozes are irritating (much harder to scroll Mumsnet and eat biscuits that way, you want them to unlatch and sleep on your lap) but if the baby is doing it it's clearly natural and normal, vs bloody Lucy Wolfe's Gina Ford In Sheep's Clothing rigid schedules (burn that book! Delete the wallpaper and replace it with a nice picture of your baby), and better than no naps at all.

I promise you it's proper sleep. It's what babies were designed to do. They were also designed to Wake hourly sometimes. Little buggers.

OP posts:
Mariposa123 · 25/10/2019 10:46

I am with you on the boob naps! My DD seems to want to maximise play time by combining feeding and napping into one session.

We’ve had a mixed week in terms of sleep this week. I realised I have to bring bath time forward a little as she starts to get grizzly bang on 7. She has a feed and goes to sleep after I’ve battled to get her sleep clothes on, but then wakes up half an hour later. Bedtime is still 11:30. My thought is if I bring all this forward either she might sleep long at 7, or at least I get an earlier bedtime Perhaps?

lambdroid · 25/10/2019 11:07

@burritofan - she’s still only doing 2.5 hour stretches a a general rule, but I’m getting more sleep so that’s really all I care about at the moment!

Teddyreddy · 25/10/2019 13:28

@OhHolyNightWaking I'm sure boob naps count, after all no one says naps don't count if they have a dummy in their mouth the whole time.

@burritofan I'm afraid I'm one of the people who made no added sugar carrot muffins for DC1 when weaning him.... It didn't last long, he wouldn't eat them and without sugar we didn't particularly fancy them either!

DC3 is only 3 months but he's a chunky monkey who is probably going to be in 6-9 month clothes within the next month, so he's heavy. He'll sometimes let me sit down with him asleep in the sling but generally only for a short while.

@bottomflannel I'm dreading the 4 month sleep regression, do you have a rocking chair to do the rocking in otherwise that must be very hard on you?

OhHolyNightWaking · 25/10/2019 13:30

(I am not a historian.)

GrinGrinGrinGrin

You are right about the sleep. I always get so in my own head about this stuff. "Junk sleep" is such an annoying term. I actually read a good blog post about it aaaages ago, which I had forgotten.
I worried about this kind of thing with DS and promised I wouldn't do it again this time around... but this time is different (different baby, go figure!) and I'm not always quite keeping my promise.

Currently boob napping for the second time today. She's so sweet curled up in my arms, with her little face smooshed into me and her hand resting on the top of my boob. I'll miss these moments when they're no longer possible!

Harrysmummy246 · 25/10/2019 14:06

Boob naps most definitely count. It's a reflex to suck, so it's not that they need to think/ be awake to do it

And you're not meant to put them in the dark in the day, it messes up circadian rhythms and frankly mean no other option is possible.

DS napped at nursery yesterday and didn't bloody go to sleep til 8:50. There were lots of random yowls so I couldn't sleep so went in with him just after midnight then that was it til DH came in at 8 for us.

He's currently 'helping' my mum clean some bits of the cooker while I sit miserable with sinusitis and having cleaned up sodding dog puke out of the rug (another instalment to come there)

OhHolyNightWaking · 25/10/2019 18:27

@Harrysmummy246 oh sinusitis is awful. I hope you feel better soon!

DD has been awake since 2pm. I dilly dallied about a third nap and then it was too late. Currently attempting to feed to sleep, which is earlier than we normally do bedtime! Currently she isn't passing out from exhaustion like I had hoped and keeps trying to twiddle my nipple. Envy (not envy!)
I have also dusted off the Sleepyhead Grande and DD is in a sleeping bag. This will likely make zero difference to anything but I figure at this point it couldn't really make anything worse. Grin

Whuut · 25/10/2019 20:14

Boob snoozes are the only way I can get DS to nap longer than 30 minutes.. They definitely count, no one's going to take that away from me!

So me and DP had a bit of an argument this morning and it sucked! It was about CC. Everyone at his work has done it and said how its amazing, changed their life, blah. No disrespect to people that do it but I feel VERY strongly about not doing it myself. Anyway, we had a tiff and it was not what I needed. Sometimes I just need to rant about stuff without being given a solution and I don't think DP always understands that, I know it must be hard seeing me struggle though. He helps as much as he can but with boob-obsessed-DS, it's hard sometimes.

We're trying to introduce DP at bedtime, with a bottle but are having no luck. I tried doing bedtime with the bottle tonight in the hope it might get him used to it but no, just screaming. Any ideas on how to do this? I don't want to stop feeding to sleep- I actually enjoy it. I'd just like him to be able to go to bed with DP as well.

@OhHolyNightWaking I've got the swaddle pod back out in a desperate attempt. He never liked it but I'm convincing myself it'll work this time. Like you said- it cant get any worse.

tootiredtothinkofaname · 26/10/2019 08:14

Hey, sorry for the slow reply, am away without DP and it’s exhausting! Thank god DD has slept OK at night (by which I mean woken 4-5 times but fed back to sleep quickly!)

@lambdroid I can’t even imagine how you are coping with 2. DD is all-consuming and I can barely go to the toilet, let alone look after another one. Glad that things are starting to get better for you. And I know exactly what you mean re not liking her - I know she can’t help it but it is so hard to enjoy anything with the constant whinging. At this rate she will be an only child.

@Whuut Hope 7-7 woman’s baby stops sleeping soon. How annoying. It does seem like everyone else I know has “perfect” babies, which just makes me feel worse!

Also, if you manage to introduce the bottle at night please do share your tips! I have been trying for months but it is received by screaming every time. Have tried various bottles, teats, breast milk, formula etc etc but to no avail...

@burritofan Thanks for the reassurance! We do have a sling and carrier (as well as hundreds of pounds of random equipment which fail to help with sleep), and sometimes DD will sleep in those if we go out for a walk. She won’t sleep in them in the house though, so birthing ball it is...

At the moment cake, chocolate and the odd glass of wine are keeping me going, but I am losing my mind. Everyone kept saying it gets better after 3 months and when there was no improvement I was gutted!

@OhHolyNightWaking Boob naps are definitely proper sleep, in fact anytime that baby’s eyes are closed counts as proper sleep in my book!

Hope everyone has a good nap day today, or at least lots of cake!

Whuut · 26/10/2019 08:26

@tootiredtothinkofaname Oh no, that doesn't give me much hope. Last night the bottle was met with screaming so gave the boob. DS has only just started taking a bottle in the day so I'm thinking maybe I'm expecting too much by giving it at night already? Going to keep giving one every day in the hope he grows to like it.. Yeah right. We are forever bouncing on the stupid bloody birthing ball too! I just keep telling myself it's probably helping me lose weight to make myself feel better. I was also gutted as I'd heard around 12 weeks it gets easier but for us, weeks 11/12 were probably the worst! Cake sounds so good right now!

Went to meet a friends 3 week old DD, she was so small and sleepy, I actually got broody and then remembered what fresh hell it is. They're too cute though, they trick you.

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