Xenophobia, homophonic, transphobia

[spstchmu]

Are you gonna do anything about it? Like, i know the line is that shoving the madness in the feminism board means it's not transphobia. And I know it's been done to death but I'm sick of it. It's not acceptable. Xenophobia, racism and homophobia also increasing.
And no. I won't leave. This is the biggest forum of its kind and it needs to represent and respect us all. And care that it's not.

Fucking hell
misogyny
is alive and well

I am a (cisgender) woman, with an age, and a physical disability so clearly not.

Even on this thread. A dig above that these things are generational and will die out because younger people think differently. I was born in the 50s and don't have these views whereas I know there are teenagers in school who do.

Straight - except it does matter, and most people who discuss it come here because of real life experiences such as:

• working in education and seeing large numbers of girls (mostly with autism) being ‘trans’.
• a frightening rl experience - I found the board after 9yo dd was frightened in a public loo by a ‘weird man in a dress’ trying to talk to her.
• sports - safety and fairness
• seeing their dcs go down an internet trans rabbit hole and become less happy for it
• men who wish to be women joining women only spaces

It’s not misogyny

Indeed.

I would add ageism and ableism.

I agree about racism. MN is very obviously majority white women, many of whom very obviously only know other white people, and have extremely limited life experience. It’s like living in the 1970s at times.

I haven’t seen homophobia personally.

Transphobia - no. Not often. Women talking about sex-based rights? Sure. I know that upsets some people. Unfortunately, we don’t have to #bekind to protect your feelings on MN (or in the real world). It’s not ‘phobia’ to say that sex matters, and this supposedly liberal, inclusive younger generation will grow up to be big, old, grown-arse mothers, grandmothers etc, and hopefully realise that putting on a dress and calling yourself Jane is absolutely fine. but it doesn’t make you a woman and it’s not ‘literal violence’ to state that.

I will say that the internalised misogyny is off the fucking scale on MN, though. There is a current thread where women are pouring scorn on young women for wearing revealing hot pants, drawing attention to themselves (scandalous!) and then complaining about it..oh, and blaming their mothers for not advising them to cover up. It’s absolutely pathetic.

I do believe it is generational and will die out eventually though. I work with young people and holding these views will lead to being a social pariah.

Hehe I agree, but watch out because those exact same people will barge in now accusing you of ageism!

Homophonia would be a good name for a gay men’’s close harmony singing group.

I have already pointed out the ageism (not a young person).

Yes it is.

"Women with nothing better to do, being whipped up into a frenzy"

Designed to belittle and dismiss women. Smacks very much of the hysteria arguments of old.

When actually the reality is that intelligent, busy women are discussing the fact that men are not and cannot become women. And that blindly allowing them into women's spaces if they claim to be is bad for women. This is not transphobia.

So intelligent they can’t accept other arguments, and so busy they can sit on here all day talking about it

Women have a right enshrined in law to certain single sex spaces.
All the fuss would go away if all men, including transwomen, just stayed out. Prisons, rape support, sports, and yes, toilets and changing rooms.
This fuss was created by Stonewall telling trans people and businesses they had rights they didn't.
Women have had to go to court repeatedly to protect their rights.

Trans people have a full set of rights not to be descriminated against in jobs, employment, housing, marriage etc. What they don't have is the right to trample over the rights of 51% of the population.

Came to add a request to stop all of the pubescent boy threads, such as the 'bums on show in short shorts' with multiple posts through the morning talking about "fanny germs" etc. Can we not monitor threads that get multiple new joiners posting at odd hours with infantile one liners and faux pearl clutching? The agenda is to make women conform and cover up to their liking rather than having a choice in what to wear and it is becoming insidious on here.

FWIW I am also against the invasion of Palestine but do not class myself as an antisemite and I don't think men can become women but I would not class myself as transphobic - you do you just don't bring your penis into our loos. The real issues on here are about women being constantly told what they can and can't wear/do/buy/eat/complain about that have sprung up over the last 3 years.

I often report racism and other “isims” they do not always get taken down, or sometimes clearly goady fucker threads are allowed to run for pages and pages despite many reports before mnhq finally agree to take action. There was a vile Islamaphobic thread the other day I reported it immediately and mnhq insisted the thread did not break talk guidelines. Eventually after pages and pages of disgusting racist comments they finally removed it.

you know exactly what I mean. I mean I get fed up of one topic taking over threads on completely different subjects. It’s tedious. So yes I object.

So you like this skirt from M&S: I’ll never shop there again because…

What do you think of the Lib Dem’s policy on sewage: I could never vote for a party that…

im thinking of taking up swimming, any tips? We’ll make sure you’ve read your pool’s policy on…

I know it’s an important topic. I know people think they are being clever / more feminist / concerned citizens. But the obsession with this one topic is starting to border on the bizarre.

The women, and men to be fair, who post in the FWR section have been asking for these 'arguments' for a decade to explain how a man turns into a woman and all we get is what you have said, we are all time rich and frothing about it.

Anyone is free to post a thread explaining why men who say they are women have somehow 'transformed' into women, but be prepared to bring some kind of evidence or research that isn't written by the men who say they are women and is based on more that 'because we say so'.

So crack on, if you think you have arguments, make it happen.

Again, hyperbole. I doubt anyone on mumsnet, on any forum, is literally on it "all day".

But I can't speak for everyone.
I only know that I am busy, and I haven't been whipped up into a frenzy because I have nothing else to do.

And I also don't accept the arguments of flat earthers. Or people who want to force me to believe in their religion.

The thing is though it just doesn’t matter

I wonder where some posters live where they encounter transpeople so often. I live in Camden, London's home of the Bizarre, and yet can't remember the last time I noticed a trans woman. Trans men, or perhaps very butch women: more often but not that often.

Is that the compelling argument that I am supposed to accept?

I think racism / xenophobia also has grey areas.
Strong negative statements about a group are clear.
However I would moot it is not unreasonable to have views that immigration should be limited, or that eg priority should be given to UK trained NHS staff, or to support Israel / Palestine in their war.

There is a difference between racism, ageism, ...ism and having different views on topics and debating them.

I feel as if many people have forgotten how to accept that different people can view things differently due to their own experiences, and that is OK. Too much polarisation and 'no debate' or 'i wouldn't be friends with' attitudes.

If you really want to go into it, it’s that gender is a social construct defined by a load of absolute nonsense. Nobody is arguing they change sex, which is a different thing.

A lot of people think it’s bizarre that a society is being told to believe something that’s not scientifically true and has consequences to the lives of women and girls. You don’t have to agree with them. But they are allowed to express that fact and discuss the ramifications.

This is exactly it. Every single thing will eventually pivot back to it. You can’t discuss any aspect of anything without it being brought up. It’s tiresome.