MN needs a closer watch of FWR

[BodegaSushi]

There is a concerning growth of posts with racist undertones cropping up on these boards, all under the guise of being proudly 'anti-woke'.

Apparently diversity is 'woke' and worthy of derision.

This is the thread I'm referring to here.

Disney went woke now they're going broke www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4836570-disney-went-woke-now-theyre-going-broke

Mumsnet needs to looks at why that board draws such types of posts, and why posters feel so comfortable openly airing their racism.

Individual preferences aren’t a sexual orientation though, are they?

People haven’t been persecuted and criminalised and punished as a class for their individual sexual preferences, have they?

Why would you conflate the two?

And you seem to be agreeing with my point: that there is now a culture within LGBTQ+ where it is considered non-U for actual homosexuals to be out and proud about the fact they’re homosexual. ESSA.

At Pride.

I mean, did Pride start as a way for LGB people to be open about and celebrate their same-sex sexual orientation, and fight for equal rights for same sex attracted people, or not?

I don’t think Pride was ever about marching for the right to only be interested in women with long dark hair or chubby bearded men.

Obviously those are perfectly legitimate preferences, but they’re not the specific basis on which people have been discriminated against and denied equal rights.

Well, I know you will twist this, but a widespread understanding of Pride's origins involved a prominent trans woman:

https://www.jcfs.org/response/blog/history-pride-part2

https://www.womenshistory.org/education-resources/biographies/marsha-p-johnson

The terminology we use contemporarily for trans people was not in existence then, so Marsha did not refer to herself as a trans woman, but her lived experiences and the recollections of people who knew her suggest that that this would be an accurate description.

Your understanding of Marsha is not the only one, or indeed the most recognised one.

Although I agree she was not present at the original riots.

So it didn't involve him at all then.

Well I think this thread has pretty much proved the concerns of some LGB women as true in real time.

Maybe you should do some research and then you will have some understanding of the centrality of Marsha to the origins of Pride and the gay rights movement.

We're here.

We're telling you we are here.

We're telling you our groups have gone underground.

We're telling you we don't go to Pride or to the TQ+ compliant LGBT groups because we're not welcome here.

And yet we don't exist so it doesn't matter and you can dismiss those voices and that exclusion.

It never happened
And if it did it wasn't that bad
And if it was yada yada all the way to
then you deserved it.

It's like the 'unprovoked attack on a provocative' detransitioner at Pride whose provocation was to hold a sign saying 'protect female sex based rights'.

And the 'anyone telling you homosexual people aren't welcomed at Pride are right wing extremists'. Including Stonewall apparently, but excepting probably present company.

Lesbians are unwelcome if they do not agree with accepting transwomen into their movement.

REDUXX@ReduxxMag
·
Jun 29A group of 20 lesbians who demonstrated in Berlin last Friday were protested by approximately 200 trans activists, some of whom attempted to attack them.
The women stated that they opposed the sterilization of children and asserted that they reject men as sexual partners.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1674343454082764800

Yes. When I said 'not welcome' it does need to be acknowledged that for women as mentioned above it has ended in actual physical assault.

If the event is supposedly focused on inclusion, why is it excluding lesbians who stand up for their right to be same-sex attracted without receiving harassment from males?

I thought Pride was supposed to be about the celebration and inclusion of same sex attracted people as equals in society, not the celebration and inclusion of, well, straight people.

Good for you. You don't get to throw that right away for other women though.

👏👏👏👏

The women stated that they opposed the sterilization of children and asserted that they reject men as sexual partners.

Oh my God, the HORROR! The BIGOTS!

<snorts a long line of smelling salts>

And then there was the time Fred Sargeant, an elderly gay man who (unlike Marsha Johnson) was actually at the Stonewall Riots and a long-standing gay rights activist was assaulted and knocked to the ground, for daring to protest against the homophobia he sees in gender ideology.

If you're referring to Get the L Out' they believe lesbians should remove themselves from the broader LGBT community, so their attendance at Pride, which is a celebration of the entirety of the community, is a bit strange and some might say bad faith.

If you're holding up banners that imply one section of our community is uniquely likely to be incapable of understanding consent, that is probably not going to be taken well, as this is simply not the case; trans people have no greater or lesser likelihood of understanding consent than the rest of us, so to target one group like this is not especially welcomed.

Additionally there are plenty of lesbians attending these events who are actually happily in relationships with trans lesbians, and they don't like others protesting and undermining their individual choices, or taking their right to define themselves away from them.

Then why don't we go with lesbians meaning sex based homosexuality, and trans lesbianism meaning mixed sex identity based sexuality?

And co exist in peace and mutual harmony and accept that Pride is inclusive of all kinds of choices? Why is that not happening? Why is it that Pride welcomes any kink or fetish but cannot tolerate a sexuality based on sex preference as too threatening to others by mere existence?

‘And one recent homophobic comment I remember recently was a poster saying that it was 'unnatural' for a child to be intentionally brought into a world without a mother and father. ‘

I don’t understand how this comment is homophobic ( I didn’t read the original discussion thread). It doesn’t seem to be ‘unnatural’ so much as impossible. Every dimorphic species ( Homo sapiens being one) has a two sex mechanism for reproduction, which means that every member of such a species has a mother and a father. There are male and female butterflies, even though they don’t hang around to see the caterpillars, there are male and female squid, frogs, elephants…..the mantis mother has a predilection for browsing on her partner, but he is still the father of her offspring.

Even in Brave New World where the children were reared in bottles without organic gestation, there were still two sexes of gametes involved in the production of the embryo aka mother and father.

So Pride is about ideological conformance then? Sounds like you agree with me that it's not about inclusion, given that bona fide lesbians are being kicked out to keep the heterosexuals in the 'community' happy.

There are plenty of lesbian groups holding up lesbian banners and celebrating lesbian sexuality at Pride...I was walking behind one of them.

We are not erased, we are more visible than we have ever been at the moment...I have been in the community for years and years and have seen the shift from probably 90% presence of men in gay venues to probably around 60% women, it has really transformed and for lesbians our increase in presence has been fantastic for each other.

Your issue, and the hand wringing over terminology is one of the main reasons more lesbians now are identifying as queer...they can't be doing with the headache of other people trying to pigeonhole and define their sexualities for them, or tell them they are not doing lesbianism well enough. Which is a bit paradoxical for the FWR board, which despises the term queer. But it is their rhetoric that is fuelling this increase of young people using the term.

@suggestionsplease1 you saying everything and nothing. Just blowing hot air. Quite a skill.

*are