Childfree Mumsnetters' Board?

[musixa]

There's been some discussion on this thread about the idea of a childfree/life without children board, so I thought I would raise the suggestion on Site Stuff

[[https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4811166-to-ask-why-so-many-child-free-people-are-on-mumsnet?reply=126404125

My thinking is that the board would be a safe space for Mumsnetters who, for whether by choice or making the best of the hand they've been dealt, are embracing the childfree life, to discuss the issues that uniquely affect us - some examples I can think of are discrimination when it comes to workplace holidays; planning for old age and inheritance issues, how to cope when your friendship group only want to meet in child-friendly venues; family pressure to have children.

I would also hope it might stop so many threads like the linked one popping up, which often attract goady posters.

I hope you don't feel this is a step too far as a board suggestion and will give it serious consideration.

Mr Mark believes that men belong in womens sports, but that childless people dont belong in parenting spaces.

Because obviously childless women are more of a threat to mums than men taking up their places in competitive sports.

I can see the case for a board on sterilization, for those who are pursuing that (although wouldn’t the board on concraceptive choices already have that covered?) I don’t see the need for a specifically Childfree board. Other than a few niche issues (who do I leave money to? I’m looking to get sterilized and I’m 28 with no kids, what do I need to know?) there isn’t much to discuss in terms of “practical issues where the poster actually needs help,” so a designated Childfree board will inevitably become a place for ranting and unpleasantness. There are already places like this on the internet and we don’t need one here.

I think the nastiness on this thread alone has amply demonstrated why people without children might want their own "safe space" to discuss certain issues.

If enough childfree posters want it, what's the issue? If there is unpleasantness, then it can be moderated appropriately. A bit of ranting seems fair enough to me... people rant about all sorts on these boards.

I just don't understand people's eagerness to police what and where other people post. If you don't want to read posts about a particular issue, just hide the boards or scroll on past. It's very simple!!

Can I ask what the issues are on the Black Mumsnetters board? Are you talking about the citibike thing?

I have read the thread and there might be one or two issues that are unique to those without children but the vast majority aren't. If you want a space to talk about whatever then grand but I really don't see a need to pretend that there is enough that separates women with and without children to keep a board busy and active.Just be honest and say we would like to talk about taking holidays from work(for instance) without parents contributing because pretending that 60 year old Dan whose children left home 20 years ago can get priority over the summer holidays because he has children is disingenuous.

And I'm not making anyone do anything. I'm sorry it is annoying you that we don't agree but you really don't have to feel obliged to reply to me. I won't be hurt.

This summarized my reasons why I think a Childfree board would be a bad idea. I’ve come across a couple in my time (Reddit, Ravelry). In theory, I suppose such a board COULD be filled up with sensible and earnest discussions of practicalities like inheritance and tubal ligatIons. In practice, such a limited range of discussion topics is unlikely to fill up a board, so either it will sit there largely-disused, or it will fill up with mean-spirited rants and TAATs. Seen it before. Don’t want it on Mumsnet.

The range of “topics I need advice on because I’m not having children” is pretty small, and all these topics can be covered in Legal, Work, Contraception, Elderly Parents, and the like.

No. I already said my children plan to live abroad so I don't factor them into care plans, they have big life goals why would i want to stunt that. I have a will like everyone else, the process for doing it is the same whether or not you have children, google it. I already said I am self employed and dh works every Christmas including Christmas day and has done for years and we don't mind.

If you want a space to talk about whatever then grand but I really don't see a need to pretend that there is enough that separates women with and without children to keep a board busy and active

I really don’t see how that’s any of your concern if you don’t want to use it. I’ve no idea whether the boards for various interests/needs are busy enough to sustain themselves if I’m not on them.

I started this thread being actually quite against it but weirdly I think I’m becoming more convinced it’s necessary.

Just be honest and say we would like to talk about taking holidays from work(for instance) without parents contributing

You’re insistent that an entire thread of people are all being dishonest simply because none of our reasons are good enough for you, a person who isn’t childless or childfree themselves. The arrogance is quite striking.

I really don't see a need to pretend that there is enough that separates women with and without children to keep a board busy and active.

No, you can't have a board for women without children, because this is Mumsnet.

No, you can't have a board for women without children, because it will attract the wrong type - incels and antinatalists.

No, you can't have a board for women without children, because there is nothing to discuss about that.

No, you can't have a board for women without children, because it would need to be very well-moderated. Such notions are dangerous!

No, you can't have a board for women without children, because with my tiny, mean, unimaginative, threatened mind, such people should not exist.

No, you can't have a board for women without children, because it would not be busy and active.

Clearly, from this thread, there is interest in such a board, and plenty of topics to cover, and like other humans, just a bit of solidarity and comfort.

Do you go around testing and documenting which niche boards are "busy and active" and suggesting slower boards close down? What's it to you?

Seriously, all the reasons why not are so spurious and hostile and illogical. Perhaps childfree women just want a break from that sort of thing.

Don’t get me started on you, @Mark19735. I remember being lectured by you at length about how statistics proved that only parents could feel true love.

The problem is that we’ve seen this kind of board in action, and the results are not pleasant. A quiet board on “balcony gardening” doesn’t fill up with people expressing malice towards people with bigger gardens or no balcony to garden on. But I’ve never seen a designated Childfree board that wasn’t thoroughly unpleasant. Please feel free to link to one that isn’t full of rants and moans, if you think you can find one!

People who don’t have kids and are genuinely secure and happy with their choices are likely to be spending their time on other boards.

Where have we "seen this kind of board in action"? If it were to be full of "rants and moans" - rather than sensible discussions for inheritance issues when there is no-one directly to inherit, for example - so what? AIBU is one big silly rant and moan and asking of questions solved by a single phonecall or a quick google. Should AIBU not exist?

I didn't say there was an entire thread of people being dishonest? I think lots of people here have been honest about how they feel. It would be silly to think every post but mine is dishonest. Do I think the majority of topics that childfree people seem to think are exclusive to them are not? Well yes, between family and friends with children of all ages from babies to grown ups I have seen them go through most of the things mentioned here as being exclusive to those without children. I bet if you think hard enough you will too.

I bet if you think hard enough you will too.

🙄

Er, Reddit, Ravelry, every single Childfree Facebook group that exists, ditto IG and TikTok accounts etc….

Fascinated to discover how your family and friends with kids have experienced:
• judgement for not wanting kids
• lack of empathy/understanding for them being unable to have any kids
• the absence of social status that comes with never having kids
• the loneliness associated with knowing that you have no kids to pass your wisdom and/or benefits onto once you’re gone, and the absence of the circle of life being part of your life
• being judged for not being an actual adult or mature bedside you don’t want kids
• the difficulty of maintaining friendships when all your friends are following a life path involving kids and you’re not
• the endless nature of work discrimination because you’ll never “get your turn” as you’ll never be a parent.

Those are all off the top of my head. There are many more, I’m sure, but as you alluded to, I’m far too stupid to come up with very many.

Those are all very different sorts of places, 95% of which I never use for discussion. Reddit is a predominantly male-dominated user base and the women's sections there are to my mind slow moving and dominated by very young users. I don't think they are comparable.

Ultimately what I love about MN is that childless/free people can simultaneously never understand what parents go through or experience proper true love like they do, but at the same time all of our experiences are identical to those of parents and nothing sets us apart whatsoever.

Almost like it changes depending on what’s being gatekept.

Well put.

My head spins with the would have nothing to discuss angle...

Literally my thoughts. Mumsnet is full of obscure, wonderful little corners with so many non parenting boards.

I literally cannot see any reason not to have a 'childfree or childless' space for likeminded women to discuss issues in a safe environment without posters demanding to know why they are even on Mumsnet.

I don't see mn stopping me from going to, looking at, contributing to and being part of any board at all. A new board wouldn't prevent anyone going there. It would just allow users to comment with awareness of the posters.

FWIW i also came here 13 years ago when pregnant and stayed for the incredible, intelligent, knowledgeable community of women that have educated me on soooo much. I laugh, eye roll, gasp and learn on so many mn threads. There is no better sm that I have found that brings me such value. Even doom scrolling feels more intellectual here than elsewhere. MNHQ should totally approve the new board suggestion

Don't forget, mums also aren't interested in the opinions of anyone without children 🥲

Can we call it "We Don't Know What Tired Is" rather than "Childfree"? 😂

Or "We'll Never Know Real Love"... Or "Why Are We Even Here?"

To me, it makes perfect sense for a parenting forum to host a "Posters without children" board. More sense than boards about subjects unrelated to having children, like chicken-keeping, or the supernatural, or radio programmes.

When there's an overwhelmingly powerful cultural norm of any kind, one which many aspects of society are built around, and which pretty much everyone is presumed by default to participate in, then the existence of that norm has effects on your life, and being someone who doesn't, can't or won't participate can bring its own unique experiences that people want to talk about, often with others who may share similar experiences. (Like how, in countries which are overwhelmingly religious, atheists might get together to share experiences and info, and support each other.)

That's why analogies about car enthusiast forums, or book clubs, or cycling, or a lot of the other examples people have used, don't really work IMO. The state of not being a car enthusiast/book-lover/cyclist doesn't really have any impact on your life, because there's no real expectation that you will be, and because those things don't make nearly as much of a difference to the shape of your life as having children does.

It might not make sense to have a "Not bothered about cars" board on the car-enthusiasm forum, because someone who's not bothered about cars isn't being impacted by a powerful cultural norm of car-enthusiasm. But people who don't have children are sometimes impacted by the cultural norm of parenthood, specifically their non-parent status within that. Because non-parents have to exist in relation to the parenthood norm, aspects of people's lives are parenting-related, even if they have no children.

I guess if I had to try to come up with an analogy that to me feels a little closer, because almost everyone does it, and it's expected, I'd have to go with something like sending your kids to school, though it's still not really equivalent.

So the imaginary SendingYourKidsToSchoolNet might have boards like Primary, Secondary, State, Private/Independent, Comprehensive, Grammar, Superselective, International, Boarding, Special, College, Sixth Form, PRU and so on, and Admissions, Holidays, Detentions, Exclusions, Behaviour, Homework, Exams, School Trips, Residentials, SEN Support, etc. And a board about chicken-keeping, obvs.

But it might also be nice to have a Not Sending Your Kids To School At All board, where people can talk about how to handle comments about your kids not being in school when you're out with them during the school day, or being able to book holidays when it's cheaper, or whatever it is they would want to discuss there that's affected by the fact that they're not participating in what's expected. Having that board wouldn't negate or contradict the meaning and purpose of SendingYourKidsToSchoolNet, because much of the discussion would be about the consequences of living in a society where sending your kids to school is a norm. (I know there are already plenty of homeschooling/unschooling/other non-school option discussion sites; this is just for the sake of argument.)