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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Childfree Mumsnetters' Board?

1000 replies

musixa · 24/05/2023 20:10

There's been some discussion on this thread about the idea of a childfree/life without children board, so I thought I would raise the suggestion on Site Stuff

[[https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4811166-to-ask-why-so-many-child-free-people-are-on-mumsnet?reply=126404125

My thinking is that the board would be a safe space for Mumsnetters who, for whether by choice or making the best of the hand they've been dealt, are embracing the childfree life, to discuss the issues that uniquely affect us - some examples I can think of are discrimination when it comes to workplace holidays; planning for old age and inheritance issues, how to cope when your friendship group only want to meet in child-friendly venues; family pressure to have children.

I would also hope it might stop so many threads like the linked one popping up, which often attract goady posters.

I hope you don't feel this is a step too far as a board suggestion and will give it serious consideration.Smile

Page 16 | To ask why so many child-free people are on Mumsnet? | Mumsnet

I already know this is going to be divisive and I'm hesitating before I even type this. I don't mean this in a snarky or judgemental way at all. It's...

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4811166-to-ask-why-so-many-child-free-people-are-on-mumsnet?reply=126404125

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
DogsPyjamas · 25/05/2023 22:20

@Freeballing plans for old age or in ill health, discussion on being childfree in 30s, 50s, 70s etc, maybe a poster may want reassurance they can build a meaningful life without children, ways of feeling a sense of community or building new friendships if they are feeling isolated, maybe just a chatty thread on life decisions they have only been able to make due to being childfree. Maybe a poster’s parents are making them feel guilty for not giving them grandchildren.

How many more do you need?

Westfacing · 25/05/2023 22:20

I'm not hostile to the idea, accept that products expand beyond their name as in Scottish Widows, and that MN is the largest and most important site for women but it does seem a bit odd to want a Board specifically for childfree members.

Most of the threads are not directly related to having children anyway e.g. property, fashion, politics, recipes, parking, whatever. - a child might be mentioned but it doesn't affect the general gist of the thread.

I imagine out there somewhere there's a major sports forum that overwhelmingly attracts fans of sport, but also men who join for the general other 'guy' stuff that gets discussed - would a non-sport Board be OK, on a sport forum? I don't know.

FatCatBum · 25/05/2023 22:23

The site isn't for everyone. Seriously, go look at it. Not the chat forum, the actual site. There is nothing there for anyone who doesn't have children. They don't need to rebrand their whole site just so they can prove that the chat forum is inclusive of others. Mods have said plenty of times that the forum is open to anyone. It is not their fault that people refuse to accept that.

This is very true, I have only been on the site once - I have been here for years but have no interest in anything but the forum so use that on the app.

Peacepudding · 25/05/2023 22:23

Catchasingmewithspiders · 25/05/2023 22:20

Theres an entire board just on walt disney world in florida. I feel like wanting a board where people can discuss coming to terms with not being able to have children, or old age plans when you dont have children etc etc is somewhat less ridiculous than a whole board just for one holiday location but there you go

I don't know, lots of families go to Disney so that seems a more logical topic on a parenting forum than a childfree topic.

thedogisstaring · 25/05/2023 22:24

@Freeballing it's like you haven't even read this thread! Plenty of issues have been listed!

skilpadde · 25/05/2023 22:27

The endless insistence that the creation of a childfree board means that MNHQ would have to change the mission statement / name / strapline etc appears to be a deliberate attempt at a derailment / spanner in the works from those whose instinctive reaction to the OP's request was "But why do you even want this... aren't there other forums out there for you?"

We should not be drawn in by the goady attempts to thwart a reasonable request.

Mumsnet's name, aims, and content do not make me feel unwelcome.

It's the hostility expressed by some posters, particularly in this thread, that is unwelcoming.

The net effect of it is reinforcing exactly why @musixa made the request in the first place.

Catchasingmewithspiders · 25/05/2023 22:28

Westfacing · 25/05/2023 22:20

I'm not hostile to the idea, accept that products expand beyond their name as in Scottish Widows, and that MN is the largest and most important site for women but it does seem a bit odd to want a Board specifically for childfree members.

Most of the threads are not directly related to having children anyway e.g. property, fashion, politics, recipes, parking, whatever. - a child might be mentioned but it doesn't affect the general gist of the thread.

I imagine out there somewhere there's a major sports forum that overwhelmingly attracts fans of sport, but also men who join for the general other 'guy' stuff that gets discussed - would a non-sport Board be OK, on a sport forum? I don't know.

Piston heads (a car forum for car owning enthusiasts) has a board called boats, planes and trains aka transport that's specifically not by car

FurAndFeathers · 25/05/2023 22:32

Freeballing · 25/05/2023 22:06

But nobody has been able to name those 'loads of issues', going to the fair as a loner weirdo was named as one of those 'loads of issues unique to childfree people', how is it? How is a childfree person going to a fair alone any different to we'll say my dad who hasn't had kids living at home for 20 years going to a fair alone?

Try reading the thread. It’s tricky to discuss the issues if you aren’t actually willing to engage with the very clear information that’s already been given

FurAndFeathers · 25/05/2023 22:33

Peacepudding · 25/05/2023 22:23

I don't know, lots of families go to Disney so that seems a more logical topic on a parenting forum than a childfree topic.

its not a parenting forum. It’s a chat forum on a parenting website

fitzwilliamdarcy · 25/05/2023 22:43

@Freeballing Lots of people have mentioned issues - the one you keep parroting was from a list of 5 from one poster. Go back and read the thread if you’re actually interested and not just trying to annoy people by making them endlessly defend their desire for a board, to you.

Jeezuswept · 25/05/2023 22:46

@Freeballing the list is endless, just like the variety in AIBU, with so many aspects that could be discussed -- you surely can't have so little imagination that you don't see that? I won't repeat other posts but maybe just have a read through of the thread.

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 25/05/2023 23:29

XXXMangoLassiXXX · 25/05/2023 19:55

It would be like going to the Cats and Dogs boards and starting a thread for people who don't and won't ever have cats and dogs and issues like banning dogs. A dick move basically

This.

It really wouldn't be like that.

It would be like saying that we can't have cats and dogs boards at all because this is a parenting website and people should only come here to talk about parenting.

I couldn't give a shit about the pet boards tbh. They are not relevant to me because I don't have pets. That doesn't mean that I object to other people talking about their pets though. Nor does it mean that I have nothing in common with people who have pets.

JesusMaryAndJosephAndTheWeeDon · 25/05/2023 23:48

Freeballing · 25/05/2023 22:06

But nobody has been able to name those 'loads of issues', going to the fair as a loner weirdo was named as one of those 'loads of issues unique to childfree people', how is it? How is a childfree person going to a fair alone any different to we'll say my dad who hasn't had kids living at home for 20 years going to a fair alone?

I have listed some. RTFT.

Mark19735 · 25/05/2023 23:54

Words are important, and the suffix "-free" is deeply problematic in regards to this debate. People without children are childless, not childfree. Using the term 'child-free' is goady, exclusionary, inflammatory and offensive.

Other uses of the suffix -free all refer to things that are unwanted, unwelcome or unpleasant. Cancer-free. Rent-free. Smoke-free. Gluten-free. Worry-free. The antonyms of -free include burdened, hindered, encumbered. It is objectionable for anyone to imply that parents' relations with their children should be described in those terms - even if it is couched in 'positive' language intended to make their life choices, or life outcomes, more validating. It's patently obvious that many (not all) of the most vociferous proponents of the right of a subset of Mumsnet posters to a forum where they can exclude the core constituency of the entire site have some major issues in respect of their childless status that they are still working though.

But a successful forum is about posters' behaviours, not their identities. Nobody knows, or need know, whether any individual poster on any given thread has zero, one, two or twenty children, unless they elect to share that information in the context of that thread. Same goes for whether a poster has zero, one, two or twenty dogs, or cars, or verrucae. I can understand why, if the demand is there, people might want to group threads together into a forum that caters for people who have an interest in dogs, or cars, or verrucae, but it would be extremely odd if people petitioned for a special forum to cater exclusively for posters who are dog-free, car-free, or verruca-free - even though there are probably a great many MNetters who are all of these things. It's the attempt to claim the position of being childless as an identity, branded as "free", and the demand that this needs a ringfenced space on a website for parents in which that identity is the dominant one, that is being objected to. Not the number of children someone does or doesn't have.

BodegaSushi · 25/05/2023 23:57

It really isn't that deep, Mark.

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 26/05/2023 00:00

To be fair, the OP listed some perfectly sensible examples in her very first post. It seems that some people are just determined not to see the many examples that have been given.

I find it so interesting to see the strength of feeling on this issue from some of the mums on this thread. It has shocked me actually to see how much vitriol is aimed towards women who don't have children, and particularly towards those who are childfree by choice. I just don't understand why they are so eager to assert that mumsnet is for mum's... why does it matter?

I can only assume that those mums who strongly object to having a childfree board are the ones who maybe don't actually enjoy being parents very much... perhaps they feel threatened by the prospect of people talking about a lifestyle that they secretly envy? Or maybe they feel criticised or judged for having made different choices? If you're happy with your own choices, surely you wouldn't care?

AngryBirdsNoMore · 26/05/2023 00:05

BodegaSushi · 25/05/2023 23:57

It really isn't that deep, Mark.

🤣🤣🤣

Mark19735 · 26/05/2023 00:05

I find it so interesting to see the strength of feeling on this issue from some of the mums childless on this thread. It has shocked me actually to see how much vitriol is aimed towards women who don't have children parents, and particularly towards those who are childfree parents by choice. I just don't understand why they are so eager to assert that mumsnet is for mum's needs a forum for childless people... why does it matter?

I can only assume that those mums people who strongly object to support having a childfree board are the ones who maybe don't actually enjoy being parents childless very much... perhaps they feel threatened by the prospect of people talking about a lifestyle that they secretly envy? Or maybe they feel criticised or judged for having made different choices? If you're happy with your own choices, surely you wouldn't care?

AngryBirdsNoMore · 26/05/2023 00:06

oh look, a man has turned up to correct our posts and tell us what to think.

BodegaSushi · 26/05/2023 00:07

AngryBirdsNoMore · 26/05/2023 00:06

oh look, a man has turned up to correct our posts and tell us what to think.

But doesn't he know??? It's MUMSnet!

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 26/05/2023 00:10

Mark19735 · 25/05/2023 23:54

Words are important, and the suffix "-free" is deeply problematic in regards to this debate. People without children are childless, not childfree. Using the term 'child-free' is goady, exclusionary, inflammatory and offensive.

Other uses of the suffix -free all refer to things that are unwanted, unwelcome or unpleasant. Cancer-free. Rent-free. Smoke-free. Gluten-free. Worry-free. The antonyms of -free include burdened, hindered, encumbered. It is objectionable for anyone to imply that parents' relations with their children should be described in those terms - even if it is couched in 'positive' language intended to make their life choices, or life outcomes, more validating. It's patently obvious that many (not all) of the most vociferous proponents of the right of a subset of Mumsnet posters to a forum where they can exclude the core constituency of the entire site have some major issues in respect of their childless status that they are still working though.

But a successful forum is about posters' behaviours, not their identities. Nobody knows, or need know, whether any individual poster on any given thread has zero, one, two or twenty children, unless they elect to share that information in the context of that thread. Same goes for whether a poster has zero, one, two or twenty dogs, or cars, or verrucae. I can understand why, if the demand is there, people might want to group threads together into a forum that caters for people who have an interest in dogs, or cars, or verrucae, but it would be extremely odd if people petitioned for a special forum to cater exclusively for posters who are dog-free, car-free, or verruca-free - even though there are probably a great many MNetters who are all of these things. It's the attempt to claim the position of being childless as an identity, branded as "free", and the demand that this needs a ringfenced space on a website for parents in which that identity is the dominant one, that is being objected to. Not the number of children someone does or doesn't have.

You think people who don't have children should describe themselves as childless, ie in language that implies that they are somehow lacking? Just because parents might not like the more positive term, childfree? Frankly, I think it's up to them how they describe themselves and it has nothing to do with me.

As a parent, I have no trouble understanding why "childfree" might be the preferred term, and I don't find it remotely problematic. I don't interpret it to mean that they think I am burdened by my dc. I just think that they are describing their own situation in terms that make sense to them.

KimberleyClark · 26/05/2023 00:16

Words are important, and the suffix "-free" is deeply problematic in regards to this debate. People without children are childless, not childfree. Using the term 'child-free' is goady, exclusionary, inflammatory and offensive.

People who don’t have children can call themselves what they like. They do not need your approval. I don’t get why the term childfree would be offensive to those who are perfectly happy with their own choice to be a parent.

Catchasingmewithspiders · 26/05/2023 00:21

Mark19735 · 26/05/2023 00:05

I find it so interesting to see the strength of feeling on this issue from some of the mums childless on this thread. It has shocked me actually to see how much vitriol is aimed towards women who don't have children parents, and particularly towards those who are childfree parents by choice. I just don't understand why they are so eager to assert that mumsnet is for mum's needs a forum for childless people... why does it matter?

I can only assume that those mums people who strongly object to support having a childfree board are the ones who maybe don't actually enjoy being parents childless very much... perhaps they feel threatened by the prospect of people talking about a lifestyle that they secretly envy? Or maybe they feel criticised or judged for having made different choices? If you're happy with your own choices, surely you wouldn't care?

Im unclear as to why I am supoosed to be happy that my baby was born dead not alive? Your language around childless people is deeply offensive.

turnipthebeet · 26/05/2023 00:23

Oh dear so many words from Mr Mark. My little brain hurts.

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 26/05/2023 00:30

Mark19735 · 26/05/2023 00:05

I find it so interesting to see the strength of feeling on this issue from some of the mums childless on this thread. It has shocked me actually to see how much vitriol is aimed towards women who don't have children parents, and particularly towards those who are childfree parents by choice. I just don't understand why they are so eager to assert that mumsnet is for mum's needs a forum for childless people... why does it matter?

I can only assume that those mums people who strongly object to support having a childfree board are the ones who maybe don't actually enjoy being parents childless very much... perhaps they feel threatened by the prospect of people talking about a lifestyle that they secretly envy? Or maybe they feel criticised or judged for having made different choices? If you're happy with your own choices, surely you wouldn't care?

Not quite sure what you're trying to do with this. I suspect that you thought you were being clever, but your changes to my post make no sense in the context of the thread.

There are many mums on this thread, including myself, who can see why some posters might want a childfree board and support that suggestion. So your changes are just stupid.

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