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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

References to underage sex on Sex board

362 replies

BenCoopersSupportWren · 23/02/2023 23:02

I haven’t been following the Sex topics in Active furore too closely, beyond agreeing on one of the early threads that it would be better for the Board to revert to the way it was - out of Active, with a longer qualifying time to be able to post.

However I’ve just read a thread which, on the face of it, is just reminiscing about posters’ ‘first times’ but which includes numerous disclosures of underage sex, including some that involved grooming, and one or two that are genuinely heartbreaking testimonies of child sexual abuse. They are particularly jarring interspersed as they are between end-of-pier type humour and jokes of others’ experience.

As I just posted there: “there is a reason most ‘mainstream’ dedicated end-user sex sites like Literotica, BDSMLR etc don’t allow stories or posts that are explicit about underage sex even when clearly written by adults, and will remove such posts when brought to the moderators’ attention. I used to work in the CJS and I’m afraid to say that such descriptions - even when expressed in short and simple terms - have currency among paedophiles. Part of my job was keeping the video testimony of CSA victims and any associated transcripts locked away so that they didn’t fall into the wrong hands. Unfortunately it’s not just explicit photos and videos that they get off to.”

For clarity, by “explicit about underage sex” I mean making specific reference to, not that the material has to be particularly sexually explicit. The exact same thread would simply not be allowed to stand on Literotica’s chat forum, for example.

While there have always been examples in other parts of the site of posters making disclosures of having been abused, that is a very different thing to sharing it in a section that only the most naive or wilfully obtuse would deny will be used in part for titillation. My issue isn’t that the thread is particularly sexually explicit - it mostly isn’t, and I’m pretty broad-minded… in context. But no one could argue that “where did you lose your virginity?” is masquerading as a support / how to / informative thread; it’s for entertainment and kicks only, be the latter humour or a sexual thrill. (A few posters on that thread have been supportive to those who disclosed their abuse, but ‘support’ is clearly not the original purpose of the thread.)

IMO it is extremely remiss of MN to disregard the ‘good practice’ rules that other sex sites maintain for handling material relating to references to underage sex/CSA, both because of the type of person attracted to those sites if such rules aren’t in place and from a liability / arse-covering perspective. This, combined with the lack of any age verification or warning for that part of the site, makes it even more obvious that MN don’t understand what is involved in safely and legally hosting a ‘sex chat site’ or part thereof.

OP posts:
Redebs · 24/02/2023 07:23

CharlotteOwlFace · 24/02/2023 07:05

You'll have one of the sex thread men along shortly to mansplain to you all about how you should calm down and just hide the thread

They're only swapping stories! Don't like it, don't look

Etc etc

It's just sickening really and MNHQ are just hoping that everyone will just shut up and stop cluttering up the boards with these silly complaints

I had one complain to me that the sex threads were being spoiled by mums!

CharlotteOwlFace · 24/02/2023 07:26

@Redebs well he's not wrong is he? The sex threads are totally being spoiled by mums. How dare we?

Poor man. It's almost like there's nowhere else to go on the internet for wanking purposes

Headlandblur · 24/02/2023 07:33

BastardtheCat · 24/02/2023 05:47

Very well written OP and thank you for doing so.

@MNHQ What on Earth is going on?

MNHQ has never managed to shift from running the site like something built in a bedroom. That was fine 18 years ago when it was small - I'm very wary of Mns processess now - particularly on the data safety side of things.

daisychain01 · 24/02/2023 07:44

Just posting with my support. Thank you for raising this @BenCoopersSupportWren

The direction of travel for MN is so obviously all about the clicks, all about traffic and revenue. They have sold themselves to the devil, and I'm not normally one to over-state things but on this one, I'm so disillusioned.

and yes, as stated by @Igotjelly we can expect some patronising twee fob-off like "thank you for your comments we'll pass them on", um no, how about you own your actions, see the disgust expressed by people who don't want to be regaled with vibrator adverts, sex threads in Active, and minimal control over content that will attract pervs, and actually take action to clean up your act.

BenCoopersSupportWren · 24/02/2023 07:55

I do think it’s naivety on MNHQ’s part rather than anything more sinister, but this is not a subject where you can be naive. They’ve obviously entered into an advertising partnership with Ann Summers which of course is their prerogative, but there are two issues here: firstly, they’re treating the intelligent people who create the content upon which MN became such a powerful brand with utter contempt by not being honest about their motivations in promoting the Sex board to Active. That in itself will turn some posters away from using the site.

Secondly, there are legal and ethical considerations in hosting a sex chat forum, and this is where the same naivety that was apparent when the succession of data breaches occurred is a problem. If the ethos of that board is changing - as it clearly is - from a place where (predominantly) women can gather to discuss their sexual concerns and ask questions in a spirit of mutual support to a place where the questions are wank-bank-collection fodder like “where did you lose your virginity?” and “do you like big dicks?” then that is going to attract a different type of poster, more and more women who may have wanted to ask about their sex-based query will decide not to post - as some have already indicated is the case - and so the spiral will continue until MN is hosting nothing more than a very explicit “share your fantasies” / hook-up erotica board. And again, that is their prerogative…but my concern is that they’re sleepwalking into that ethical and legal minefield. They need to wake up PDQ and at the very least attempt to put some safeguards in place around age verification, rules about what can and can’t be discussed there and perhaps have some dedicated full-time moderation on that board to ensure any such rules are adhered to rather than relying on posters’ reports.

At the moment MN is more lax than most sex forums of which I’m aware, and sooner or later that is going to have serious real-world consequences for them, be that legal or business-related - or both.

OP posts:
BenCoopersSupportWren · 24/02/2023 08:00

(Obviously I have other concerns and have to make my own decision about whether MN is changing into a site I still want to support with my time, but they’ve been articulated by others far more eloquently than I can elsewhere. I’m just aware that there’s a specific problem here that I haven’t seen addressed anywhere else.)

OP posts:
CrotchetyCrocheting · 24/02/2023 08:05

What really shocked me on that thread was the poster who went into detail about sleeping with an underage girl and no regulars from the sex board pulled him up on it? We are being told how it is a lovely supportive community over there, supportive of men sharing their stories of sex with girls who cannot consent?

I have been a member of the literotica forums for years and something like that wouldn't be tolerated. If you are going to host a sex forum you need active moderation. Not relying on members to report posts when clearly the members have no idea what crosses a line. Stories of child SA and detail about sleeping with underage girls have no place on a sex forums.

onirgellep · 24/02/2023 08:06

The losing virginity thread has just been hidden by MNHQ to take a look

lummsnet · 24/02/2023 08:08

I raised the issue of age verification before under a different user name and was completely ignored.

Mumsnet are getting this so wrong but they don't care and anyone who raises issues is patronised and called a prude.

Ethelfromnumber73 · 24/02/2023 08:09

Thanks for intervening OP- the sex boards don't belong in active for all the reasons you've stated

Quveas · 24/02/2023 08:15

SquirrelSoShiny · 24/02/2023 00:20

WTAF is going on with @MNHQ atm?!

Couldn't agree more. In so many ways there are more and more disturbing "click bait" threads being allowed to stand in the name of "free speech", "public interest" and "education". The site is becoming a disgrace and I know many of us are really considering whether we can continue on it. We are just legitimising the conduct by staying.

lummsnet · 24/02/2023 08:17

Between this and the ableism I'm honestly so close to leaving as well.

It just doesn't feel like a supportive place that's for the likes of me now

Cincinnatus · 24/02/2023 08:17

Agree with this and the other threads about the content. MN doesn’t seem bothered though.

SalviaOfficinalis · 24/02/2023 08:18

This is just getting worse and worse.

Obviously an internet forum is never completely a “safe space” but now MN is actively attracting pervs.

And obviously they’re not just going to stay in the sex topic once they’re here, they’ll want to have a good look around and read threads about women’s post-birth recovery and deeply personal and sensitive topics. And Yes I know pervs could always do that, but it feels like it’s being actively encouraged now.

Sort it out @mnhq I don’t want to go to net mums 😭

lummsnet · 24/02/2023 08:21

SalviaOfficinalis · 24/02/2023 08:18

This is just getting worse and worse.

Obviously an internet forum is never completely a “safe space” but now MN is actively attracting pervs.

And obviously they’re not just going to stay in the sex topic once they’re here, they’ll want to have a good look around and read threads about women’s post-birth recovery and deeply personal and sensitive topics. And Yes I know pervs could always do that, but it feels like it’s being actively encouraged now.

Sort it out @mnhq I don’t want to go to net mums 😭

I agree with this.

I know it's not a safe space but it felt like somewhere that pervs wouldn't be tolerated by posters. And it felt like somewhere with a predominantly female focus where I could post and get a predominately female response

Aphrathestorm · 24/02/2023 08:23

Yes I went and looked on that thread and was so disturbed I left it.

RedDoughnut · 24/02/2023 08:27

It's such a shame things have taken this turn, it's not the Mumsnet I know and love

Rogue1001MNer · 24/02/2023 08:27

onirgellep · 24/02/2023 08:06

The losing virginity thread has just been hidden by MNHQ to take a look

Took long enough!

Phos · 24/02/2023 08:41

Are you talking about the where was your first time thread? I didn't think it was exactly Literotica - most of the replies were one or two sentences at most.

MySugarBabyLove · 24/02/2023 08:42

If the sex topic really must be in active, then IMO:

you should have been a member, and have posted, for 90 days before being able to post there. Same should apply to namechanges you shouldn’t be able t post until 90 days after a namechange, and no. The sex topic is not somewhere you need the safety to post behind a namechange, your sexually explicit and perverted posts should be able to be linked to your posting history.

The board should be locked to new posts between 7 at night and 9 in the morning, because we all know that the most prevalent time for trolls, perverts and the generally undesirable is in the middle of the night when there’s no moderation, so close the board.

Clymene · 24/02/2023 08:47

Phos · 24/02/2023 08:41

Are you talking about the where was your first time thread? I didn't think it was exactly Literotica - most of the replies were one or two sentences at most.

You really need to reread the OP very carefully again.

BenCoopersSupportWren · 24/02/2023 08:49

Phos · 24/02/2023 08:41

Are you talking about the where was your first time thread? I didn't think it was exactly Literotica - most of the replies were one or two sentences at most.

Indeed, most were. But some of those short, brief posts contained material that would be exciting to paedophiles.

I wish I were wrong about that. I wish I were merely pearl-clutching. Unfortunately I have first hand experience of prosecuting the kind of men who prove it over and over.

Posting that kind of material is forbidden on the likes of Literotica, no matter how brief or sincerely written. They have a zero-tolerance approach to underage sexual references. And if MN are determined to host part of their site as a place for sex chat then the least they can do is apply the same rules on that board.

OP posts:
SalviaOfficinalis · 24/02/2023 08:52

I wonder what the moderators think about having to moderate the new and improved sex chat… has MN consulted with them I wonder.

Bamboux · 24/02/2023 09:19

Brilliant posts, @BenCoopersSupportWren

What a shame that Mumsnet aren't interested in listening to someone with genuine expertise and experience, offering them expert advice for free.

The potential fall out from this is huge.

FictionalCharacter · 24/02/2023 09:31

@MrsTerryPratchett @Clymene I completely agree.
It feels like MN is being targeted by sex pests of all kinds, spoiling the experience for women, and mnhq are letting them do it. Meanwhile genuine posts about things we should have a right to discuss are deleted for being "not in the spirit".

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