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References to underage sex on Sex board

2 replies

BenCoopersSupportWren · 23/02/2023 23:02

I haven’t been following the Sex topics in Active furore too closely, beyond agreeing on one of the early threads that it would be better for the Board to revert to the way it was - out of Active, with a longer qualifying time to be able to post.

However I’ve just read a thread which, on the face of it, is just reminiscing about posters’ ‘first times’ but which includes numerous disclosures of underage sex, including some that involved grooming, and one or two that are genuinely heartbreaking testimonies of child sexual abuse. They are particularly jarring interspersed as they are between end-of-pier type humour and jokes of others’ experience.

As I just posted there: “there is a reason most ‘mainstream’ dedicated end-user sex sites like Literotica, BDSMLR etc don’t allow stories or posts that are explicit about underage sex even when clearly written by adults, and will remove such posts when brought to the moderators’ attention. I used to work in the CJS and I’m afraid to say that such descriptions - even when expressed in short and simple terms - have currency among paedophiles. Part of my job was keeping the video testimony of CSA victims and any associated transcripts locked away so that they didn’t fall into the wrong hands. Unfortunately it’s not just explicit photos and videos that they get off to.”

For clarity, by “explicit about underage sex” I mean making specific reference to, not that the material has to be particularly sexually explicit. The exact same thread would simply not be allowed to stand on Literotica’s chat forum, for example.

While there have always been examples in other parts of the site of posters making disclosures of having been abused, that is a very different thing to sharing it in a section that only the most naive or wilfully obtuse would deny will be used in part for titillation. My issue isn’t that the thread is particularly sexually explicit - it mostly isn’t, and I’m pretty broad-minded… in context. But no one could argue that “where did you lose your virginity?” is masquerading as a support / how to / informative thread; it’s for entertainment and kicks only, be the latter humour or a sexual thrill. (A few posters on that thread have been supportive to those who disclosed their abuse, but ‘support’ is clearly not the original purpose of the thread.)

IMO it is extremely remiss of MN to disregard the ‘good practice’ rules that other sex sites maintain for handling material relating to references to underage sex/CSA, both because of the type of person attracted to those sites if such rules aren’t in place and from a liability / arse-covering perspective. This, combined with the lack of any age verification or warning for that part of the site, makes it even more obvious that MN don’t understand what is involved in safely and legally hosting a ‘sex chat site’ or part thereof.

JustineMumsnet · 24/02/2023 17:20

Hi everyone. Thanks for posting - and sorry for the delay in responding. We’ve been discussing the posts here and on the myriad of threads currently running about the Sex topic pretty much all day.

Cards on the table - we put the Sex topic into Active a few weeks ago and we should have given people the heads up, so they could hide the topic in advance. Since then there has been a huge amount of feedback - most of it negative. Perhaps we’ve been naive in underestimating the impact and potential unintended consequences - to be honest we’d meant for the topic to go into active when we introduced the ‘hide topic’ feature a while back - it was an oversight that we didn’t. Then roughly a year ago we changed the time from registration from 90 days to 7 - we believe this is a sufficient delay to deter trolls and, since this change, we’ve not noticed any increase in trolling on the topic. But we accept there could be a wider knock-on consequence here with the overall tone on the boards and it’s something we’re monitoring closely.

Our primary motivation for putting Sex in Active was, as it always is in these cases, to increase visibility to this part of the site for those who need advice. We know that the sex chat threads have been referenced a lot but the majority of threads on the topic are discussing things we know are important and relevant to a significant percentage of MNers - such as post-partum sex, erectile dysfunction, and lack of sex drive. We wanted people to be able to find these threads and, hopefully, find some useful advice and support. It was never our intention to ‘sex up Mumsnet’ - we believe that sex is a pretty regular part of life and hence threads involving sex have always been posted across the boards.

We certainly acknowledge that the sex chat threads are divisive but we cannot see any evidence that it’s driving more male users to join - as far as we can see the men on the sex board are regulars who’ve been using this forum for some time, it’s just their presence is more visible.

Of course the last thing we want is to encourage a load of sex pests onto Mumsnet and I can promise you that we are monitoring this very closely and will of course have a re-think if we see any evidence of it. We’ve also pinned a notice to the top of the topic asking users not to send unwanted PMs. We’ll ban anyone who does.

The thread referenced in the OP was deleted this morning. We had several reports from posters who said they regret posting and it was clearly making a lot of people very uncomfortable so we took it down.

Please do keep letting us know if you have any particular concerns - I can promise you that every report and every post on Site Stuff is read and carefully considered.

JustineMumsnet · 25/02/2023 11:44

Hi again... Wow so this took off overnight! It's pretty clear from the strength of feeling and reaction to my post that this isn't so much about the actual affects of moving the Sex topic into Active, or the fact that individually you can avoid seeing it by hiding it, it's as much about tone and feel of the site. As such it seems to me there's no point us waiting for the data and so we'll remove Sex from active shortly.

One of the issues that we've got is that Active is very much the home page of Mumsnet for many - and as ComeTheFckOnBridget says lots of other sites do this differently.

When we launched follow topics last month, many users asked for a way to see a feed of the latest threads from the topics they're following - we're working on that feature at the moment and it will be ready to launch soon and I think over time it could be that Active then evolves to become more of an index and less of a landing page. But we'll see how the introduction of feed goes and what the take up is like before thinking about any further changes.

One thing that's been useful about this discussion is that it's made it clear we should formalise our guidelines on how we moderate the Sex board. As we've said, we have not, over the years, had any particular issues with this board (wrt to pervs, sex pests etc) but I agree we could communicate some clearer boundaries with regard to safeguarding and expected behaviour, so thanks to all who've mentioned that - we'll get on to asap.

Something I want to put on record is that this decision to move Sex threads into Active conversations had absolutely zilch to do with the Smilemakers partnership. There was no pressure put on us to make this move and at no point in any thinking about this did Smilemakers come up. Over the years we've literally turned down millions of pounds from brands because we've categorically refused to engage in disingenuous marketing and/or take money from those brands which don't make parents' lives easier - I think we've shown that we're pretty good at resisting commercial pressure.

Thanks as ever for the feedback and good weekends to all Flowers

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