Mumsnet encouraging brigading by Twitter TRAs

[TerfinUSA]

Apparently Mumsnet now takes 'reports' by Twitter.

twitter.com/MumsnetTowers/status/991593570955153408

May I ask why? It seems normal that threads should be flagged on site, and that Twitter isn't an appropriate mechanism for this.

Moreover a purpose-built Twitter TRA account, one of hundreds on Twitter set up specifically to harass and silence gender-critical feminists is being actively engaged with, even as it publicly defames Mumsnet on Twitter

twitter.com/MumsnetTowers/status/991683672356028417

The TRA modus operandi on Twitter is to mass-report feminist accounts until they are blocked and banned, and dozens have been silences in this fashion, now it seems Mumsnet, is voluntarily submitting to TRA oversight.

A thread from November about an article from 'Shon Faye' on transgender access to women's refuges has been deleted based on this Tweet:

twitter.com/youngvulgarian/status/991328378178473985

The basis for deletion appears to have been 'misgendering'. It seems to me that it is rendered impossible to have a discussion on protecting single sex spaces if you are forced to use 'preferred pronouns' instead of ones that reflect biological reality. It is rather hard to understand the worldview whereby the feelings of the likes of Shon Faye asserting the right to enter a single sex space is prioritised over actual domestic abuse and rape victims. Especially on a which from its name 'Mumsnet' clearly has some basis in female biology!

Moreover, it seems reports are being received on the basis of 'Shon's feelings might be hurt', but it doesn't seem these same standards are applied to people who are not TRAs.

Any given thread about anyone, be they Jamie Oliver, Chris Evans, whoever, is likely to have people being slightly rude, but it seems that Mumsnet is inviting TRAs to brigade the site to enforce trans ideology ('misgendering', etc.) and render women voiceless the same way they have done on Twitter.

Already TRAs are circling demanding bans of posters for not being 100% on-board with trans ideology, they will not rest until this place is indistinguishable from a NUS conference.

twitter.com/MumsnetTowers/status/991707542752583681

Arrrrgh. Starting to feel unsafe posting on these threads now.

People who are twatbadgers:
Jamie Oliver
Liam Fox
Jacob Rees Mogg
Shon Faye
Katie Hopkins
Rod Liddle
Lily Madigan
Theresa May
Donald Trump

Which of those need deleting?

We definitely have not issued a general invitation to Twitter to report transphobic posts. In this case, posts which clearly broke our TGs were brought to our attention (and the attention of the world at large) on that platform - it would have been absolutely nuts of us, as a company, to ignore those tweets without indicating that we were looking into them.

Really? This reply from @MumsnetTowers to @MumsnetTransphobia suggests otherwise:

Thank you - please tag us in when you want us to look at something.

That’s a general invitation, is it not?

That reply was sent on Twitter at 15.19 yesterday, I should have added.

This is no clarification at all, MNHQ, when posts are deleted for giving dictionary definitions of the words 'woman' and 'female'.
In what way is that uncivil?
In what way does that break talk guideliness?

Love this so I'm copying it:

People who are twatbadgers:
Jamie Oliver
Liam Fox
Jacob Rees Mogg
Shon Faye
Katie Hopkins
Rod Liddle
Lily Madigan
Theresa May
Donald Trump

@MNHQ The users of this site are the reason you have advertising revenue streams and are running at a significant profit. If I can't appeal to you any other way, do you really want the treatment of yprur users to affect your cash flow?

@KateMumsnet - all the tweet needed to say was "Thank you for flagging that. If you have other concerns you want to discuss, please drop us a line at [email protected] or send a report through the website"

Not (in effect) "please use Twitter as your reporting tool for the site"

You must see that, surely?

I agree you can't refuse to engage at all on Twitter, but instead of re-directing traffic back through normal channels, you created a huge new one. And it only took about 12 hours before a MNer was receiving death threats

Jacob Rees Mogg is a twatbadger

Shon Faye is a twatbadger

Anyone who compares Mumsnet to Nuremberg is a twatbadger.

On occasion, I have been a twatbadger

There was a very long thread on Twitter about a month ago, started off by a bloke who was commenting on the f*ckability or otherwise of some transpersons prominent in the Labour Party, like Lily Madigan and Heather Peto. Men piled on to outdo each other with insults about their appearance.

(I wish I had kept the link.)

No transactivist jumped into the thread to complain of transphobia, even when @d by feminists.

exactky. Twitter, Facebook and parts of Reddit are awash with actual bigotry, yet the TRAs focus on MN becasue theyre too scared to take on biological men, who are generally way more intimidating than us. Pathetic. Bullied become the wannabe bullies. Unfortunately they havent noticed that women have come out of their shell.

Imagine if MN had given in to F4J, issued instructions of ways to report/brigade onto various MRA forums and started policing womens language over it all based in feedback from the narcissistic blokes. This is basically the same situation, but handled with kid gloves instead. Why?

These people will not stop until MN is no more. Its telling that they focus their ire on MN, when many many other places have actual horrible transphobia on a regular basis. Difference? Those places are mainly male people. males get left alone while females are bullied into complying. Twas ever thus I guess.

Kate, why is Mumsnet pretending that women calling misogynist males men, is uncivil?

There is a difference between civility and submission and a woman's site should always stay on the side of the line that isn't submission

But look what Shon really thinks! Shon is enlightened! Shon RETWEETED this by not Voltaire

Well, that's a bit contradictory of Shon, given the current keenness to silence Mumsnetters who prioritise biology over gender. And it's certainly the opposite of the nodebate / no-platforming philosophy.

@KateMumsnet

I know you are looking at more detailed guidelines around the trans discussion so I wanted to make a couple of points about this.

It's a fairly common and mainstream position to say that a debate about trans issues must be civil and respectful and that means that it must start off from the perspective that "transwomen are women". Trans activists (including Shon Faye) commonly refuse to participate in discussions in mainstream media with people who have said in the past that transwomen are male.

The only way to get anywhere with this is to have the discussion openly and in public. Any meaningful debate needs to start at the point of divergence of opinions which is "what is the definition of woman / man?" then (or at the same time) look at why we have sex segregation and women's rights and see if there are areas where we can find a compromise.

However the TRAs know the majority of people don't really believe "transwomen are women" but they might be willing to say that out of kindness / politeness / political expediency. In fact, TransMediaWatch are currently lobbying the parliamentary committee looking at hate crimes and proposing that the term "trans identified male" should be considered a hate crime (I'm sure you know about this as they have described Mumsnet as particularly problematic).

Any meaningful debate on this topic has to allow us the language to name the issue and that means saying that transwomen are male / men. There are circumstances where this might be hurtful to individuals but it is also hurtful to women to say that being a woman is just a feeling in an individual's head (male or female).

Most often when people say transwomen are male / men on this site it is:

• at a general level and not directed at any particular individual
• in response to a trans identified male insisting on being called a woman or female
• in response to a trans identified male exhibiting male socialisation, particularly demanding women comply with their demands or provide them with support

The TRAs don't want this discussion to happen and they won't be happy with any other than MNHQ's complete acquiescence to their position, which means a total shut down of any discussion of trans issues. Once that's started, are we going to see them going after gender neutral language for MN's campaigns?

Hope you can take this into consideration and continue to let this discussion go on in a meaningful manner.

Shon tweeted that because Shon knows that after Shon's despicable behaviour last night that the press (and other interested parties) are having a very good look at Shon's output.

This makes Shon concerned that despite Shon locking Shon's account last night to do a midnight Fred the Shred , many of Shon's tweets have been screenshotted. Shon wants to give the impression that Shon is not an incel-like reactionary misogynist but all caring and freespeechy.

I am not sure this will work out well for Shon.

Is Shon hoist by Shon's own petard? Shame, that.

The quote that tweet is based on isn't from Voltaire however Shon might be interested in Voltaire's quote that "those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities".

transwomen are men

ooh what did Shon do? someone pm me if its triggering or literally violent and repeating it will cause deletion and supression.

Shon reminds me of a real bitchy queen (his preferred self id before anyone gets triggered) I used to go clubbing with back in the day. Said some really outrageous and horrible stuff, none of which was recorded on social media luckily for him. Turned into quite a nice man really once he grew up a bit and got all the "look at me im the first person to sleep around" thing.

"by parents for parents"

Not looking like it from here.

I think i'm done, finally after 13 years of being here under various guises... i'm fucking done.