Mumsnet encouraging brigading by Twitter TRAs

[TerfinUSA]

Apparently Mumsnet now takes 'reports' by Twitter.

twitter.com/MumsnetTowers/status/991593570955153408

May I ask why? It seems normal that threads should be flagged on site, and that Twitter isn't an appropriate mechanism for this.

Moreover a purpose-built Twitter TRA account, one of hundreds on Twitter set up specifically to harass and silence gender-critical feminists is being actively engaged with, even as it publicly defames Mumsnet on Twitter

twitter.com/MumsnetTowers/status/991683672356028417

The TRA modus operandi on Twitter is to mass-report feminist accounts until they are blocked and banned, and dozens have been silences in this fashion, now it seems Mumsnet, is voluntarily submitting to TRA oversight.

A thread from November about an article from 'Shon Faye' on transgender access to women's refuges has been deleted based on this Tweet:

twitter.com/youngvulgarian/status/991328378178473985

The basis for deletion appears to have been 'misgendering'. It seems to me that it is rendered impossible to have a discussion on protecting single sex spaces if you are forced to use 'preferred pronouns' instead of ones that reflect biological reality. It is rather hard to understand the worldview whereby the feelings of the likes of Shon Faye asserting the right to enter a single sex space is prioritised over actual domestic abuse and rape victims. Especially on a which from its name 'Mumsnet' clearly has some basis in female biology!

Moreover, it seems reports are being received on the basis of 'Shon's feelings might be hurt', but it doesn't seem these same standards are applied to people who are not TRAs.

Any given thread about anyone, be they Jamie Oliver, Chris Evans, whoever, is likely to have people being slightly rude, but it seems that Mumsnet is inviting TRAs to brigade the site to enforce trans ideology ('misgendering', etc.) and render women voiceless the same way they have done on Twitter.

Already TRAs are circling demanding bans of posters for not being 100% on-board with trans ideology, they will not rest until this place is indistinguishable from a NUS conference.

twitter.com/MumsnetTowers/status/991707542752583681

" But I don't agree that it is as a result of us looking at posts that are drawn to our attention on Twitter, or that we've done a general callout to Twitter asking for complaints about Mumsnet users."

You don't?

I just looked at the @MumsnetTowers Twitter account. Nearly all of the replies are to complaints from TRAs.

You are replying to people whose bios consist of

"Straight talking, Fetish loving, Filth peddling, Collecting, Music nerd."

You are rolling over in response to people who insist that stuff like this twitter.com/GayRollerCEng/status/991647583805366272 is violent hate speech (bearing in mind that we are talking about someone who went to an all-boys private school, then Exeter College Oxford, as a financial donor), rather than basic feminist analysis.

You are by contrast NOT engaging with the requests of others complaining about MN twitter.com/RaheemKassam/status/991355356956823552
so it's clear that you pick and choose who you respond to.

This is encouraging brigading.

TerfinUSA

I just went to look at those bios too.

Women don't want to open up protected spaces to individuals who might fetishise womanhood and you are colluding with self confessed fetish loving individuals to shut women up about this.

Blind or willing to throw a few particularly mouthy users to the wolves in order to save the company's reputation? I hate to be thinking that, but it would make more sense than a social media company suddenly not understanding how social media works.

Is this even workable?

I remember it being said that a fair chunk of moderation already goes to FWR's board - This is going to make so much more, unnecessary (IMO) work.

Things already feel tense here. I really hope this doesn't push HQ over the edge.

MNHQ - In regards to misgendering - If there was a discussion about an individual would referencing the fact that the person used to be male be a deletable offense?

Even if it were totally relelvent to the conversation and the poster didn't use 'he' pronouns?

I'd think that allowing reports via Twitter would massively increase the workload for whoever is responsible for looking into reports.

This is disgraceful, beyond disgraceful! Allowing members (men and TRA) on Twitter to report posts on a completely different platform. How the hell do you see this working out well?

Do you really not have the ability to moderate your own forums without asking Twitter to do it for you?

Mumsnet - laughing stock of the internet.

I agree AAK - There are quite a few people on twitter who are seriously and hatefully obsessed with MN at the moment. They will literally sit and @ HQ all day long.

Not because they find anything particularly offensive, but because they want HQ to snap and say 'fuck it, this isn't worth it'.

And to Mumsnet's credit, most sites would have done that a long time ago.

This isn't good.

Yep. Some of those people are basically full time trolls. It's like the cliche about vampires - don't invite them in!

And look, I'm sorry to be so negative and I know HQ are under a lot of pressure, but every new announcement that comes just ramps up the tension and it really looks like there's nobody internally who has any idea how to deal with this mess. So why not hire someone?

We're happy to have posts which might break our TGs pointed out over on Twitter or here - we'll take a look at them and use the same judgement in considering whether they break TGs wherever they're reported and whoever they're reported by.

No other forum anywhere does this.

Can you explain why you think this is a positive thing? Can you explain why you have suddenly ceased to care about MN as a community and have instead reduced us to a series of posts to be either monetised or thrown to the twitter wolves as convenient?

We're loyal but we're not stupid. We can see that something different is going on. We can see that it's not good for us, or for the gender debate in its widest sense. We'll put up with a fairly large amount of shite in order to have this debate but each of us has our limits.

But I don't agree that it is as a result of us looking at posts that are drawn to our attention on Twitter, or that we've done a general callout to Twitter asking for complaints about Mumsnet users.

The links in the OP clearly show you are inviting randoms on twitter to involve themselves in moderating the MN community. Engaging with the MN transphobia account in the way that you have is totally doing a 'general callout to Twitter asking for complaints about Mumsnet users'.

What else did you think would result from that?

Twitter users will be laughing their socks off tonight. Mumsnet can't moderate it's own forums. It's all over Twitter now, like a snowball, more and more TRA getting ready to bombard your Twitter account. That's appeasement for you.

They are lying about the moderation too. This is what they posted abput the Shon thread. Taken from another thread in March. And they called victory

And they will keep calling it until total capitulation.

And

..

Hopefully, there will be a good bit of discussion about it with HQ tomorrow when they have had a talk about all of this.

And I personally have stopped giving a shite what twats on twitter are laughing at - I only really care about what we are allowed to speak about on MN.

There's only one way to win and that's to keep the discussion going here.

Not because they find anything particularly offensive, but because they want HQ to snap and say 'fuck it, this isn't worth it'.

Exactly. Which is why I truly don't understand why MN have done this 'reporting via twitter' thing?

There are thousands, literally thousands of other places that these people could screenshot transphobia from, and Im talking about the type of transphobia that is not 'ambiguous' or 'a matter of opinion' in any way.

But these people have got their teeth into MN now. They can see that they have a big chance at silencing women, a chance they have wanted for ages. They are going to be like a dog with a bone.

Yes, @MNHQ are capitulating to a bunch of abusive liars whose main aim is to shut the whole forum down.

I'd like them to either state their reasons for doing so or to just stop it.

If they do neither then I'm done here.

Encouraging public reporting on another site over which you have NO control is ridiculously foolish. Unable to check if is a previously banned poster, a hairy handed troll etc. Having your decison-making made public. Unable to deal with vexatious reporting. Any misogynous micro-celeb with a handful of followers can amplify via retweet and retweet and start a nasty internation pile-on within minutes.
You don't even have the mods to cope with internal reports . . .

Who advised this PR disaster? Never take their advice again.

Totally sums it up for me.

MN why on earth would you do this? It's utter madness. Unless you are looking for a reason to close down the board "we couldn't keep up with the moderation"

Christ MNHQ this is the moment to stand firm.
To represent the principle of genuine free speech like a beacon in the midst of this authoritarian shit storm.
To send a message to the world that you will not silence women, women will not be silenced again by fear.
That women can be angry nasty opinionated vipers and if you don't like that tough shit.

This is what MN was. It's what gave it the power, what shocked people and made them hate us.
Women, all types of women, doing their own thing how they wanted; whether that was sleb twaddle, baby names, in the news, or FWR.

And now at this point, you are abandoning all that, you are policing tone, deleting facts, and telling women to be nice or shut up.

You have some big decisions to make here. I think ones which will one way or another change what MN represents forever.

You,/we are in danger of losing something precious and fundamental here.

When Justine said she'd protect free speech for women, did she mean it? Or not.

MNHQ

I must admit I'm feeling a little ill over Dax on the other thread who has been receiving messages hoping her baby is stillborn. She has also received death threats.

I don't give a shit what unhinged nutcases are saying on Twitter.

But telling these psychos that you are sanctioning them calling out women on here, absolutely has led to Dax being threatened.

Her username is all over Twitter, and the dog whistle has gone out. Because they are emboldened by this policy.

I don't know what your motivation is over all this. Perhaps you disagree with what women are saying. Perhaps your eye is only on the bottom line.

But, for the love of God, you should not have allowed men on Twitter to have this loaded gun.

I'm guessing that there's been some recent development, perhaps involving lawyers or the police, which has led to MNHQ's new stance and apparent disregard for its users - but they don't (can't?) tell us what's going on so who knows.

Dax is still being abused on Twitter due to this. I pray to God nothing happens, we're all aware how low they will go to doxx and get information about people. @Datun is right, you have just handed a loaded gun to a group of people who would smirk as they pulled the trigger.

MNHQ

More women will be targeted. I don't think you have the slightest idea quite how disgusting the threats will be.

Please, please amend your twitter account.

"We were hoping, in the spirit of civil debate and cooperation, that our policy to accept reports from Twitter would be mutually beneficial.

Unfortunately, it has come to our attention that our members have been personally targeted with death threats and statements concerning death to their unborn children.

As a result, we are withdrawing this extension to our policy. We do, of course, take all transphobia extremely seriously.

We are an open, public forum and would welcome the input of anyone, and everyone who feels concerned over this issue. Reporting posts will resume be in the usual manner, on the actual site."

Jesus Mumsnet, get the fuck off your knees.

These men aren't engaging in good faith, they are here to shut you down because as far as they're concerned, you are a bunch of terfs. You haven't completely capitulated to their demands, you keep going on about free speech, d'you know how much they hate that? You've already marked your card, no amount of figurative repentant blow-jobs is going to gain you acceptance now.

They hate you anyway They will not stop harassing you until you have utterly surrendered to their demands. There is no point trying to engage with them or mollify them, nothing but unconditional surrender is acceptable.

You need to recognise what you're dealing with. This is not a nice, reasonable bunch of people. These are people who claim that it is an extremist viewpoint, to know that a mammal with a penis is male. These are people who claim that you have a mental health condition (phobia) if you understand that only females can gestate babies. These men hate women so much that they threaten their unborn children and they have no shame about it because they think we are Untermenschen, while calling us Nazis.

You are not in Kansas anymore. You are not dealing with reasonable people. Stop imagining that you can engage on a rational basis with lunatics who insist on your obedience. How much abuse do you need to experience before you recognise what you're up against? Stop taking women for granted. Stop pandering to violent, entitled, demanding men.

@MNHQ

If the problem when the situation with Dax was pointed out was that I'm too unruly and direct and generally prone to getting up people's noses (tone not in keeping with, etc), will you listen to Datun? If there's anyone whose judgement almost anyone on the Feminist boards would trust it's her. She does not overreact. When she is telling you that your chosen strategy led directly to a commenter being abused you should listen.