Mumsnet encouraging brigading by Twitter TRAs

[TerfinUSA]

Apparently Mumsnet now takes 'reports' by Twitter.

twitter.com/MumsnetTowers/status/991593570955153408

May I ask why? It seems normal that threads should be flagged on site, and that Twitter isn't an appropriate mechanism for this.

Moreover a purpose-built Twitter TRA account, one of hundreds on Twitter set up specifically to harass and silence gender-critical feminists is being actively engaged with, even as it publicly defames Mumsnet on Twitter

twitter.com/MumsnetTowers/status/991683672356028417

The TRA modus operandi on Twitter is to mass-report feminist accounts until they are blocked and banned, and dozens have been silences in this fashion, now it seems Mumsnet, is voluntarily submitting to TRA oversight.

A thread from November about an article from 'Shon Faye' on transgender access to women's refuges has been deleted based on this Tweet:

twitter.com/youngvulgarian/status/991328378178473985

The basis for deletion appears to have been 'misgendering'. It seems to me that it is rendered impossible to have a discussion on protecting single sex spaces if you are forced to use 'preferred pronouns' instead of ones that reflect biological reality. It is rather hard to understand the worldview whereby the feelings of the likes of Shon Faye asserting the right to enter a single sex space is prioritised over actual domestic abuse and rape victims. Especially on a which from its name 'Mumsnet' clearly has some basis in female biology!

Moreover, it seems reports are being received on the basis of 'Shon's feelings might be hurt', but it doesn't seem these same standards are applied to people who are not TRAs.

Any given thread about anyone, be they Jamie Oliver, Chris Evans, whoever, is likely to have people being slightly rude, but it seems that Mumsnet is inviting TRAs to brigade the site to enforce trans ideology ('misgendering', etc.) and render women voiceless the same way they have done on Twitter.

Already TRAs are circling demanding bans of posters for not being 100% on-board with trans ideology, they will not rest until this place is indistinguishable from a NUS conference.

twitter.com/MumsnetTowers/status/991707542752583681

Of course you have Kate, and why should people who aren't part of the forum be able to complain about users anyway? Only people using the forum should be able to do that. Then, if they do, so long as we aren't posting actual hate towards trans people our posts should not be deleted. Acknowledging biology, sex based oppression and misogyny is not transphobic. Refusing to reduce women to a bunch of stereotypes and indeed to uphold the idea, then, that men can identify into being women, is feminism, it's not transphobia, and the many trans people who have the exact same view are testament to this fact. You surely understand the issue with misogyny online and that violent misogyny is pervasive in trans activism - the fact it took less than a day for such a misogynyist comment to be made to a woman whose only crime was being a feminist engaging with other feminist on your site demonstrates this well - so why would you take steps that would only encourage misogynists to find us and attack us? Do you not realise Mumsnet is literally the only online space that women are free to discuss what matters to us without dealing with misogyny? And again, there is no need to open us up to this because this forum is for people who engage on this forum. Mumsnet has made a huge mistake. And unless you stop allowing feminist boards altogether the trans lobby will not be happy. Know that.

Kate I didn't say reporting. I report stuff, I'm not averse to reporting where appropriate. I said mass targeted reporting. That's harassment.

Incidentally what are the numbers @MNHQ are dealing with compared to say this time last year, 6 mths ago, 3 mths ago?

So MNHQ put a new plan in place this week to take reports by Twitter, but didn’t inform any of its members? And it only came out via a Twitter reply to somebody who’s not an MN member? Have I understood this correctly?

Does any other online site encourage people who don't even belong to the site to demand deletions via twitter?

Does Facebook? Amazon (for book reviews)?

If I or any other user would like our entire Mumsnet history erased, including any stored data such as email addresses or private messages, how would we go about making that happen? There is another user who's mentioned that she's asked about this multiple times and has yet to receive a response.

Given recent events I'm not convinced that MNHQ has the slightest idea how to protect the data of its users, or even of what the potential threats are. Other users are giving you useful feedback - you should take it on board. Allowing and encouraging the kind of public reporting on Twitter that you have agreed to go along with means that individual users will almost inevitably be targeted in the way the user mentioned above was. Is there nobody within MNHQ who understands how Twitter works, and more specifically how the patterns of harassment faced by women on Twitter work?

What if next time the target is someone with an abusive ex who'd love to track her down? You are being incredibly cavalier with the safety of the women who use this site, and each new update makes that more clear. At what point are you going to take this seriously?

As a result of the new "please tweet us your complaints about Mumsnet users" policy one Mumsnet user just got a message from one of Shon Faye's followers saying that they hoped her baby would be stillborn.

for that poster, that is awful. What a shitty thing to do.

FFS MNHQ whatever's going on, whatever pressures you're under that you can't tell us about, there's no reason or excuse for courting troll accounts. You've basically invited a load of arseholes to come and be arseholes to your core membership (AKA women) and to shut down the discussion you've defended for years.

They will succeed if you let them. Nothing will be good enough, the very fact you're hosting this debate is considered transphobic in itself, as Justine acknowledged on talkradio.

Are there any other forums that allow themselves to be moderated by randoms on twitter?

If HQ are going to delete transphobic posts, can we at least have a clear definition of 'transphobia' please.

I don't understand why MNHQ got so snippy at the Reddit MN exodus, saying that it wasn't really on to discuss MN on another forum, but have decided to open up the poor, already overworked Mod team to the vagaries of Twitter

Surely all MNHQ needed to say in response to the tweets about individual posts and threads is that they are happy to discuss concerns privately and off line through email or reports on the MN website?

MNHQ I have a lot of empathy for the grief you are getting for allowing discussions about women's rights in this climate but you are allowing a group of TRAs from twitter to set the narrative of your moderation and dictate how you run this site.

I do listen when MN sets out T&Cs but if those are being influenced by an external pressure group whose only aim is to shut women up then you will rapidly lose support and respect.

If HQ are going to delete transphobic posts, can we at least have a clear definition of 'transphobia' please.

I don't think we'll make any progress until this happens.

Does any other online site encourage people who don't even belong to the site to demand deletions via twitter?

No. This is female socialisation at work. Even the upper echelons of MNHQ are not immune it would seem.

TRAs will now probably saturate the site with 'transphobic' posts and report them all via twitter so that HQ cannot keep up and either have to employ loads more staff, take a profit hit or fold.

T&Cs - fine. Allowing randoms to publicly call out and report users for "transphobia" on Twitter, thus both potentially exposing those users to the full wrath of the internet hate machine and feeding the narrative that "exposing" and punishing women for thinking incorrect thoughts is the right thing to do - so incredibly unwise that I can't believe anyone approved it as a course of action.

I do not have a "phobia", I doubt many posters on here do. I do however object to coercive control with regard to Article 9.

Freedom of thought, conscience and religion
1 Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief, in worship, teaching, practice and observance.

2 Freedom to manifest one’s religion or beliefs shall be subject only to such limitations as are prescribed by law and are necessary in a democratic society in the interests of public safety, for the protection of public order, health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.

My conscience tells me that men cannot become women, that is my human right and I expect it to be upheld

@PencilsInSpace Amen to everything you said.

I don't think this is TRA or MRA specific. The feminism v. fake transphobia debate is not even that relevant. There were different issues in the past (Jeffry etc) and there will be different issues in the future.

This is primarily a female populated parenting site where women speak about their most personal issues.
MNHQ should be hyper aware of their "brand" and know exactly what happens when women politicians journalists etc speak out (death and rape threats anyone?) and the need to protect themselves and their users from the same.

If women don't feel safe and supported here the. "brand" is dead as will be all sponsorship and advertising revenue.

Nothing on reporting via Twitter on the current Talk guidelines, which were last updated 9 mins ago.

Bad form, MNHQ, to make such a radical change to the culture of the site (and potentially the safety of your members) without informing your members, let alone consulting them. Very poor.

And no, the user in question was not contacted via Mumsnet PM, it was via Twitter. I'm sure MNHQ will say that it was thus her own fault for engaging on Twitter at all, but guess what? By setting up that "feel free to report users for transphobia here" system you just painted a target on the backs of your own users and emboldened the people who were already itching for an opportunity to lash out at them. India Willoughby has been encouraging followers to report users to "help" Mumsnet with rooting out transphobia. You have played right into the hands of the people who are trying to shut both you and the discussion down.

There is a bigger picture here that nobody at MNHQ seems to be seeing. You're a profitable business, can you not hire a social media strategist who has some experience specifically relating to women's online safety?

I have to say I think that a 'reporting via Twitter' policy is absolutely ridiculous. If people want to report, they need to sign up to MN and go through the normal channels that we all have to.

You have basically invited a load of TRAs to pile on and shut us all up.

Wait, didn't MNHQ post recently about making less work for them by not reporting?

So it's a thing now to report a post on one sm site via another sm site? That's disgraceful.

It must be hard for Mumsnet but why can't they see what is happening. These people are not the rational debating sort and they hate actual women. They frequently threaten violence and make such a fuss about harmless words that debate is impossible. They are all about scoring points and many seem extremely unintelligent or borderline sociopaths.

When F 4J were setting fire to their pants outside M&S and writing on children, MNHQ didn't indulge their BS.

When Jeffrey hacked the site and leaked data on loads of MNers, MNHQ took the threat seriously. Also we were allowed to mercilessly rip the piss out of Jeffrey without deletion.

The difference between then and now is stark.

Everything AAK said is spot on.

Over the last 3 weeks MNHQ have been appearing completely blind to the climate for women online. It is quite baffling.