Mumsnet encouraging brigading by Twitter TRAs

[TerfinUSA]

Apparently Mumsnet now takes 'reports' by Twitter.

twitter.com/MumsnetTowers/status/991593570955153408

May I ask why? It seems normal that threads should be flagged on site, and that Twitter isn't an appropriate mechanism for this.

Moreover a purpose-built Twitter TRA account, one of hundreds on Twitter set up specifically to harass and silence gender-critical feminists is being actively engaged with, even as it publicly defames Mumsnet on Twitter

twitter.com/MumsnetTowers/status/991683672356028417

The TRA modus operandi on Twitter is to mass-report feminist accounts until they are blocked and banned, and dozens have been silences in this fashion, now it seems Mumsnet, is voluntarily submitting to TRA oversight.

A thread from November about an article from 'Shon Faye' on transgender access to women's refuges has been deleted based on this Tweet:

twitter.com/youngvulgarian/status/991328378178473985

The basis for deletion appears to have been 'misgendering'. It seems to me that it is rendered impossible to have a discussion on protecting single sex spaces if you are forced to use 'preferred pronouns' instead of ones that reflect biological reality. It is rather hard to understand the worldview whereby the feelings of the likes of Shon Faye asserting the right to enter a single sex space is prioritised over actual domestic abuse and rape victims. Especially on a which from its name 'Mumsnet' clearly has some basis in female biology!

Moreover, it seems reports are being received on the basis of 'Shon's feelings might be hurt', but it doesn't seem these same standards are applied to people who are not TRAs.

Any given thread about anyone, be they Jamie Oliver, Chris Evans, whoever, is likely to have people being slightly rude, but it seems that Mumsnet is inviting TRAs to brigade the site to enforce trans ideology ('misgendering', etc.) and render women voiceless the same way they have done on Twitter.

Already TRAs are circling demanding bans of posters for not being 100% on-board with trans ideology, they will not rest until this place is indistinguishable from a NUS conference.

twitter.com/MumsnetTowers/status/991707542752583681

We cannot have special cases for "transphobia" on here. Making it a special case is what has led to this situation. Trans people should be treated no differently to women. That's precisely what they say that they want for goodness sake.

For example, if we cannot talk about how a trans person in the public eye looks then we cannot talk about how anybody in the public eye looks. Kate Middleton, Jamie Oliver, anyone.

This has to be standard across all boards with rules evenly applied.

Otherwise, to just delete stuff based on the TRAs' say-so (without them even bothering to sign up to Mumsnet) effectively puts them in charge of your content.

Truscum above is transgender and is telling you that you've got it wrong.

Maybe make a couple of transgender people on here honorary moderators for a bit (Truscum and Debbie?). And of course you'd also need two women moderators also who have been here donkeys years also. Because we're not making special cases any more, right?

The pedophilia thread was a perfect example of why making trans issues a special case absolutely will not work.

I had a post deleted on the Shon Faye thread. I wrote the exact words
"What a twatbadger". No more, no less.

Now Mnetters of old will know the long, long history of calling people in the public eye this. Twatbadger is MN favourite.

I did not misgender - I used a word that has been used to describe Jamie Oliver, Tony Blair, Nick Griffin, Owen Jones - and countless others. All still stand on this site.

So Shon Faye is special - despite being an outspoken journalist, in the public eye - with immense amounts of privilege (privately educated etc) and an immense public platform - SF is beyond criticism.

Oh - and that deletion will make everyone think I said something transphobic about SF - which I didn't.

I agree that the TRAs are never going to be satisfied. They hate us, quite simply, because we won't roll over and fulfil the servile, "cs" identity they want to impose on us. We've seen that their "cs allies" are essentially expected to protect and serve them, and that's what they're trying to impose on HQ now.

Justine made an incredibly brave stand. Please let that mean something.

What about fuckwit? That's a nice gender neutral swear, right?

I agree Empress.

I think it basically comes down to the fact that TRA’s are trying to convince the world and his wife that we are a sub-section of “woman” instead of them being a sub-section of “man”.

Their “allies” May be willing to accept that but I personally am not.

You can make people lie but you can't make them believe the lie.

Fuckwit sounds good Angry. Especially since my favourite “cockwomble” is out for obvious reasons.

Shon is now 'pregnancy shaming' women who dare to call out and telling them to take up 'basket weaving or yoga'.

Yes, I saw that last night. I presume that someone of Shon's education and privilege is aware that the terms "basket weaving" and "basket weaver" are traditionally used as disablist insults and to insult people with mental health issues.

But god forbid anyone use a different pronoun than the one Shon recognizes.

TRAs are on twitter telling MNHQ that deletion simply isn't good enough for the rebellious women here - they are demanding bans. And from the sounds of it, having some success.

MNHQ - since when did you allow yourself to be bullied like this?

I’m not in Twitter, no intention of joining, I don’t have the time for another forum. It bugs the piss out of me that an entirely separate platform is involved in the moderation on here.

Are the threads being deleted and bans handed out at least being attributed to Twitter complaints so there’s at least some transparency for those of us who can’t be fucked getting involved in all this bullshit? And bullshit it is MHNQ

Really Anita? Has anyone been banned?

Yes, Katherine, I don't know who though. I can't even remember which thread - one of the ones on FWR - but I read a long term poster was permanently banned yesterday.

Rollcall?

@MNHQ a good start to inconveniencing TRAs who join to make a comment then report it would be to show how long people have been a member, both before and after the comment (to make it harder to hide when screenshotting). It won't be perfect and some people who deleted after EH will get caught up in that but it would be a start.

And shut down Twitter reporting. Put a form on your front page if you must but don't make women targets like this.

Where have @MNHQ gone? There's been no comment since Kate early last night. The silence is eerie...

Kate is commenting on the pedophilia thread. Commenters have been given very clear instructions and an equally clear threat if they do not comply.

Long term lurker but I dip in and out, re-signed up just to comment on this as it’s made me so bloody mad.
Last year when the mn with sn boards was being trolled in the early morning, you couldn’t put a mod on in the early morning.
Frequently the boards get trolled at night by pervs and trolls, but oh mn couldn’t possibly stretch to a moderator over night on a 24 hr forum.
For years women on these boards have asked for more extensive hours moderating on these boards but were patted on the head and told no dear, despite being a huge business we couldn’t possibly stretch to an mod at night
So basically no extra resources to mod is what is constantly said.

Suddenly some angry men appear (not even on the bloody board, on a seperate site all together), they are unhappy with reality and women discussing what will happen when the meaning of the word women is eroded to mean anyone (erm hello women’s shelters for a start, so it’s kinda important to discuss this shit). Sky is green, war is peace, 4 legs good, women can have a penis .

And now you can pull extra moderating out your ass to take reports on bloody twitter from people who aren’t even on the site to curb women debating their erasure?

doesn’t just take the biscuit it takes the whole mcvities factory, what a joke.

Biology excellent post.

What the fuck is this?

For example, if we cannot talk about how a trans person in the public eye looks then we cannot talk about how anybody in the public eye looks. Kate Middleton, Jamie Oliver, anyone

this.

I really genuinely don't understand why trans people get this preferential treatment

Also I 1000% agree with biology

Suddenly there's enough mods to delete any mention of any high profile trans person - I mentioned one the other day, saying they were talking about getting pg - which they were, its on twitter if you want to check - and that gets deleted. And yet all the disablist language is left for the morning or whenever people can be bothered.

And why the hell is Twitter now Mumsnet's remit?

WHY DO WE HAVE TO PLAY NICE JUST BECAUSE WE ARE 'MUMS'?

Why does Shon Faye have it in for Mumsnet? Because we are predominately women, and older women at that. Shocking behaviour.

All true that, biology - I told DH about this last night, he works in IT and said it's madness to allow reporting from a completely unconnected platform by non-members.

I will be namechanging I think now, in view of the twitter attention. But I'm not leaving (might de-reg and re-reg actually).

Is namechanging useful do you think? I figure if anyone goes digging into my profile, well, yes, it is definitely 100% true that my real first name is Angry. My mother could see the future, you see.

Hi all - just coming back to clarify a few things.

We definitely have not issued a general invitation to Twitter to report transphobic posts. In this case, posts which clearly broke our TGs were brought to our attention (and the attention of the world at large) on that platform - it would have been absolutely nuts of us, as a company, to ignore those tweets without indicating that we were looking into them.

As I said above, we use exactly the same judgment in considering whether posts break TGs wherever they're reported and whoever they're reported by.

While we're on the subject of Twitter: we do understand that it must be frustrating to be deleted on Mumsnet for a post which, from the poster's point of view, is simply a response in kind to inflammatory provocation from Twitter. We wish that civil debate was the norm on all platforms - but the bottom line is that we have no control elsewhere. What we can is to ensure that standards of civil debate are maintained on Mumsnet, and we think that's the right thing to do, because this approach will give the conversation the best hope of moving forward. We know that MNers are capable of conducting a spirited and meaningful debate within TGs - we see it all the time - so we're confident that this will not limit anyone's ability to discuss these things.

We're continuing to think about further clarification of what the TGs mean in practice when applied to this issue, and we'll come back to you when we've finished that process.

Thanks all

MNHQ

So no clarification from @MNHQ? This is shameful.