Should MN have a People of Color Section?

[KickAssAngel]

Firstly: I am deeply ashamed that it has taken me 13 years to even think of this.
Second: My apologies if there is such a thing but I looked under the Talk headings and couldn't see one.

Like most of mainstream UK/Westernized culture there are certain POV or voices on MN which are more dominant. In an attempt to create a bit of space for people who somehow don't fit that kind of profile, MN has a few areas for those people. Cat lovers have the litter tray, there's a special needs area, and feminism topics (and others). I see those areas as places for people who are particularly interested in those things as being able to post there more specifically about their lives, hopefully (although not always) without being railroaded and drowned out by people who don't share those experiences.

BUT - I see nothing that provides people of color with a space.

I wouldn't want to invade there, but as someone who is white, and very aware that I pretty much just get the 'white story' from all areas of society, including MN, is this something that should be established?

I would see the potential benefits as 1. People who might want to share their experiences with others who would more immediately understand/agree with them could do so, and 2. I would want to lurk and hear the 'voices' of POC in order to drown out the white dominance I've grown up with.

I really hope I have raised this in a sensitive and appropriate way. I was prompted by a couple of things - one thread here about why women may not want men joining in a lot, which got taken over by a load of men joining in - and also, in RL, when a white friend shared some problems she's had as the partner of an African American, which really shocked me. I realized after that story that I have NO idea just what it is like to live with everyday racism, and then noticed how there isn't a space for that discussion on MN.

Would posters want this, or is MN so 'white' that other forums are being used instead?

There is a multicultural families section www.mumsnet.com/Talk/multicultural_families

OTBT = off the beaten track

Thanks, but I'm no wiser :).

What's off the beaten track?

I hate that term and I am one!

What's off the beaten track?

I can't remember where it is but threads there won't appear in active/ trending etc and spider engines are requested to not spider that part of the site ie the threads shouldn't pop up on Google.

I like the fact when we post we have no preconceptions re age, race etc... I also like the insight I gain into other cultures when posters describe specific cultural issues. It makes me far more aware of the subtleties of culture as it can be quite a hidden but important element in a post.
However - I would be all for it if I was to gain the secret of the elixir of youth my stunning black and mixed race friends are privy too 😊....

That means the US experience does not map well to the UK context (or indeed anywhere other than the US).

But one of the great things about MN is that because there are posters from all over the world, it is possible to have these discussions across many cultural contexts. Like this thread, for example:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/2316090-Feminism-for-women-of-colour

Evening all, and hi, OP!
Thanks for floating this idea and thanks to everyone who's responded so far. Generally, we always consider new topics that are suggested by the community, but we tend to have a look and see if there are a good number of people interested, otherwise we end up with loads of tumbleweed topics that never get posted in.
In this case, we think it's fairly clear from the posts responding to the OP that this isn't a popular idea, so we think this one's likely to be a no from us.
Obviously, if the thread takes a dramatic turn and there are lots of people saying they want it, we'll be happy to take another look, but at the moment it seems that many people are concerned it could be divisive and that's not really in the spirit of the site.
We also like to think anyone can post anywhere on Mumsnet, as long as they are respectful and civil to one another, so it probably isn't necessary, but if anyone else has any strong views either way, do post them here and we'll keep reading.

Grauch

yes yes yes. I've said this so many time on here as it happens so often.
I do NOT appreciate WHITE people telling me when, why and if I'm ALLOWED to be offended by something.

Sorry, OP but I strongly disagree with your original suggestion. I actually think it's a terrible idea!! Why can't we all just be "people" without creating differences between us based on our skin colour.

I actually am quite offended by the suggestion, as it smacks of racism to me.

And Tigger, I tend to STFU around anyone who might know more than me about a topic. So, no, I get that I don't 'get it' around growing up BME in the UK, so I would STFU and listen. I also don't 'get' what it's like to have a visible disability so I STFU about that.

I just became aware, rather belatedly, that there just isn't somewhere that BME people, or Women of Colour can go for quick responses from people with similar experiences, and genuinely wondered if that space should exist.

Absolutely, WoC/BME are the ones who get to decide that, but I was also thinking a little along the lines of NOT having it can make some people feel like they aren't expected to want to talk about certain topics. We DO have topics, lots of them, for all sorts of groupings of people.

A new poster might browse the boards, want to talk about what it's like to have a child who is BME starting school, and want to be able to do that in a topic that makes it clear what their pov is without having to explain/put it in the title.

We can't just be 'people', because some people, based on the colour of their skin, ALREADY face racism. These differences exist. Lots of people live these experiences every single day.
That you don't 'get' that, suggests to me that you haven't ever faced racism.
Again, that doesn't mean MN needs a separate board for this.

Please everyone OTBT has nothing to do with this. It is to protect vulnerable posters...of all 'colours'.

Please don't talk about OTBT on thread.

Cross post Buzzard

KickAssAngel I think you're getting a v hard time here and totally see where you're coming from. The parallels with FWR, Scotsnet etc are pretty clear to me, it's about a shared vocabulary and conceptual framework to look at everyday experiences, the news, books, TV etc. If I posted about the Kardashian family in FWR I'd expect a different set of responses than if I posted about them on Style and Beauty, or Sleb Twaddle. Clearly there's a lot to be said about them from a race perspective as well so why not a board where posters who want to talk about cultural appropriation can hang out?

The only thing is, as PP have said, that there doesn't seem to be much demand for this at the moment, so it might feel a bit well-meaning do-gooder to set up a board with no obvious need other than 'we think you might be feeling a bit alienated' (in itself hugely othering).

I have to disagree with the notion that mumsnet isn't ever racist - there was a thread on baby names just the other day where an OP got some really unpleasant posts for asking about three names that quite clearly weren't British in origin. And I was also v uncomfortable reading that SIL thread you mentioned! But again I don't know whether a special board is useful? Probably best for people to point it out on the thread itself...

But, I have other spaces to discuss these things. I have Asian friends/family etc to discuss this stuff with. MN is my neutral space (to some degree- I'm fairly sure it is overwhelmingly white Caucasian and female) and that's fine. Sometimes I don't want the 'Asian' perspective on something (that's what my Mum is for!) and MN is great for that.

The person living with her in laws, I knew reading her OP where she was coming from. But actually my answer would have been more or less the same. Just because I'm Asian doesn't mean my family gets to treat me like shit. There are differences (e.g. my MIL when she comes and my Mum, stay with us for several months because a trip here is expensive, many MNetters would be horrified)- but I can easily solve that by stating in my OP that in my cultural context, this is not unusual. That still won't give my MIL the right to be awful to me, or my DH not to stand up to me.
And to clarify neither has happened. MIL is bonkers but lovely and DH is always on my side.
I don't like the reverse assumption that my problems need a 'cultural' solution of some sort.

Yep

I think it is a great idea as a lot of people on this site think every poster is of Caucasian background, I haven't been on this site for long I'm here from the infamous Netmums during my time here I have witnessed what I can call "under cover racism"

As a person from an ethnic minority group in uk I think it would be a good idea . Anyone should be allowed to post on it but topics only relating to being BME.

Luchi - I , of course, am fully aware that racism happens every day. What I can never 'get' is to fully know how it feels to be given a racist comment, from the pov of someone who has grown up BME in the UK. I get that I don't have the same life experiences. I will never get what it felt like to be stared at age 7 because of my skin color. I never had to live through that. I can be sympathetic as all get-out, but I can't change my skin colour, turn back into a 7 year, and feel the real experience of having someone stare at me in a way that made me pretty sure that it was because of my skin color. As such, I would never claim to be able to 'get it' when someone describes that situation to me because I wasn't them.

That doesn't mean I can't listen without some attempt at sympathy and support.

But - if WoC are happy with the boards how they are, then that's not an issue.

I do wonder if MN is disproportionately white , or if it IS seen as inclusive enough. It's often accused of being disproportionately mc (and slightly left wing liberal hand-wringing types).

Why can't we all just be "people" without creating differences between us based on our skin colour.

Nice sentiment but totally naive. People have real life experiences where thier race affects other people's responses to them. Next time someone calls me a Paki, I will say "dude, why can't we all just be "people" without creating differences between us based on our skin colour" and see what happens.

I'm very left wing, liberal, hand-wringing as it comes though! I agree with most stuff on the site so maybe that's why I don't feel the need for a separate thread.

My comment on everyday racism was to the poster who said that having such a board would be 'racist', not to you!

I've been called honky or whitey, it works both ways. I am also Cornish therefore attract all sorts of insults.

Yes.

Mumsnet is very middle class white anyway.

I am a LP of a biracial child.

And both working, studying and financially independent. ;-)

But - if WoC are happy with the boards how they are, then that's not an issue.

There is no way of knowing as MN are not exactly going to do a poll of BME MNers. They are just going by the General feedback on this thread which anyone can post on.