Should MN have a People of Color Section?

[KickAssAngel]

Firstly: I am deeply ashamed that it has taken me 13 years to even think of this.
Second: My apologies if there is such a thing but I looked under the Talk headings and couldn't see one.

Like most of mainstream UK/Westernized culture there are certain POV or voices on MN which are more dominant. In an attempt to create a bit of space for people who somehow don't fit that kind of profile, MN has a few areas for those people. Cat lovers have the litter tray, there's a special needs area, and feminism topics (and others). I see those areas as places for people who are particularly interested in those things as being able to post there more specifically about their lives, hopefully (although not always) without being railroaded and drowned out by people who don't share those experiences.

BUT - I see nothing that provides people of color with a space.

I wouldn't want to invade there, but as someone who is white, and very aware that I pretty much just get the 'white story' from all areas of society, including MN, is this something that should be established?

I would see the potential benefits as 1. People who might want to share their experiences with others who would more immediately understand/agree with them could do so, and 2. I would want to lurk and hear the 'voices' of POC in order to drown out the white dominance I've grown up with.

I really hope I have raised this in a sensitive and appropriate way. I was prompted by a couple of things - one thread here about why women may not want men joining in a lot, which got taken over by a load of men joining in - and also, in RL, when a white friend shared some problems she's had as the partner of an African American, which really shocked me. I realized after that story that I have NO idea just what it is like to live with everyday racism, and then noticed how there isn't a space for that discussion on MN.

Would posters want this, or is MN so 'white' that other forums are being used instead?

I don't have a view about whether it is a good idea or a bad idea, but I think it would be a good idea to steer away from the PoC terminology, which stems from the specifically American legal context of the one-drop rule. I would prefer BME, but that would have to recognise that some ME people are white, but not white British - which I'm not sure is what you're aiming for?

I am Asian. I am not sure. I think an 'everyday racism' thread would provoke some people to trot out the usual 'oh you are too sensitive', 'oh that was a joke.' BUT actually I like MN because I don't know who the person responding is and there is also something nice about that. In some contexts my Asian identity is important, when I am in the subcontinent, I am Bengali first, South Asian second, sometimes my identity as a woman is important to me, sometimes my identity as a mother is paramount, sometimes my hatred of aubergines defines me- I don't like my identity being limited to more and more boxes.
Also the experience of being 'non white' is very different based on where you are (Asian means something else in the US where I was frequently mistaken for being Spanish), your class, etc. I don't think we share some homogeneity of experience. And the idea of 'white' people lurking on the thread to 'learn' from us, well meaning as that sounds, is somewhat creepy and othering.
So overall, I think no, I am happy to forego such a topic.

I like to be able to post about sexism in the fem area knowing that people 'get it'... I was wondering if there should be an area for people to vent about crappy everyday racism

Yes, because if you post about crappy everyday racism or sexism on the ordinary boards, all of us are going to say "NONSENSE, RACISM IS A BRILLIANT IDEA"

erm, as I have said already - it would be for those topics which people find helpful to have similar opinions/experiences. Nothing to do with getting a mortgage. Unless they have been given a crappy treatment by an advisor and suspect it's because of their skin colour, and want to talk that through with people who may well have similar experiences.

And no point did I suggest that people would need to stay in one section. Any more than someone on Scotsnet, or style and beauty should only post on one section.

I really don't think that claims of being 'color blind' are that useful. There are many people who would see that as a form of benign racism. If we can't recognise the many examples of micro-aggressions that some people live with, then we're really denying their experiences.

(btw - I'm in the US. My computer prefers color to colour, so my spelling is an odd mix of UK/US. Hopefully no-one thinks that UK spelling is in any way superior, rather than just a cultural difference.)

What on earth are you deeply ashamed OP?

If I give you a Most Woke badge, will it make you feel happier?

This honestly reads as if you've been on a diversity and inclusivity course at work.

Ah yes, segregation - that's always gone down well

People of colour

Whites a colour

Why would you want to segregate it all?

I don't think about people's skin colour when I talk to them. They could be barney the purple dinosaur as far as I know and all I see are words on a page

I don't think the op was cling from a bad place
But it's not a great idea

Some groups eg Asians have issues that are quite specific to their culture and traditions eg living with MILs after marriage, family ownership of babies etc. So as an Indian I think it would be great to have some input from others experiencing the same. However maybe this would be better served as a post on the main boards and not a separate area.

Also I'm sure you didn't mean offence but I find the term person of colour really offensive. It suggests White is the default colour and everyone else is 'other'. It's not a phrase I would be happy to hear used in public.

I think you meant well though you are getting quite a harsh time on here!

So everyday racism doesn't happen to people not 'of colour'? Err ok then.
And what about us with freckles! Neither one nor the other! Discriminated from both sides!
Poor dotted bastards.

It's also a BIT irritating to hear 'people's skin colour doesn't matter' or 'everyone's skin has a colour.' Erm, if you have experienced racism that first statement is not true. I will always remember the first time someone shouted 'P**i' and spat at me (this is rare I should say) and it is a specific experience based on my race. Or when my Muslim friend is ALWAYS pulled out for extra security that's not always random. But we can discuss that on MN in general.
And I know that everyone's skin has some colour but let's not pretend that racism isn't a problem or that many many people judge others by the colour of their skin.
My close friend's son (Asian with an obvious Asian name) made it to Team GB in a high profile sport. I was in a cab and the radio was on and he was being talked about and the cabbie said really nonchalantly, 'when you hear those names you don't know if it's a British team or not.' I am sure we can pull out many such examples.
It would be helpful if people could say there is no need for such a forum for PoC/BME without minimising the lived reality of being a racial minority.

Sadly, Fenella, there have been many threads where Islam-phobia has been rampant and unchecked. It does seem that on the main boards certain kinds of racism and religious bigotry are endorsed and cheered on whole-heartedly.

Which makes me wonder if it would be more inclusive to give people space to rant about that kind of crap.

I actually like that skin colour is entirely irrelevant on t'internet.

I could be black, white, asian, how would any of you know?

The fact you can chat to anyone in this way breaks down many barriers.

OP - you have completely misunderstood British culture.

This website is not based in America.

Seriously. Stop.

But the answer to Islamophobia is not for us to retreat to a corner of the Internet.
Also PLENTY of brown people are anti-Muslim. You know that, right?

People of color?

How American.

No, it's not a good idea.

Umm, yeah. Really not sure that accusing users of the main boards of endorsing racism and religious bigotry is going to help your argument.

I don't really understand why if you feel that the main chunk of the site endorses racism you'd want to be on here?

Gruach both your posts have been spot on. Wish you'd stop sitting on the fence though.

But KickAssAngel Islam is not a race. I think what you're suggesting is well meaning, but if you are trying to use PoC to cover all bigotry, then that is a very US-centric view, and I don't thinkit will work.

Seriously. Stop

Or Stahp. As the op might say.

Segregation causes more problems than it solves. Surely an American would agree with that?

RE: my phrasing. I live in the US. POC is the 'accepted' and least-offensive term being used within academic studies (e.g. for departments of Justice Studies.) I have no idea what the British terminology is. The big national conferences all use that phrase. It's intended to be more to unite people than to mean there's one main default skin colour.

In the US there are different issues and history around race and religion, so different terminology is used.

On the issue of being color blind:

here if you have 15 minutes to watch something.

I am British btw, I just live in the US, so I think I understand British culture - it is my home! I'm just more current with US terminology because I live and teach in the US and have done for the last 8 years.

So hide away all the BME people to complain about racism somewhere the rest of us can't see it?........... I'm sure you're coming from a more kind place than this but you have got to be realising this is an awful idea?

What makes you think mn is all white?

There is only one race, the human race. People's life experiences are not 100% governed by their skin colour.

People's ethnicity doesn't usually crop up unless the topic is actually about race and ethnicity. Those threads are almost always in chat, so I don't see why they would need to be in seperate section .

There isn't a section for ethnic groups or specific countries. I would think these areas would be too restrictive. Also there would be literally hundreds of them.

Unless you think there should just be one category fits all, white people here and ethnic minorities over there. You can't divide ethnicity and race clearly like you can with women and men, cat owners and dog owners etc.