Should MN have a People of Color Section?

[KickAssAngel]

Firstly: I am deeply ashamed that it has taken me 13 years to even think of this.
Second: My apologies if there is such a thing but I looked under the Talk headings and couldn't see one.

Like most of mainstream UK/Westernized culture there are certain POV or voices on MN which are more dominant. In an attempt to create a bit of space for people who somehow don't fit that kind of profile, MN has a few areas for those people. Cat lovers have the litter tray, there's a special needs area, and feminism topics (and others). I see those areas as places for people who are particularly interested in those things as being able to post there more specifically about their lives, hopefully (although not always) without being railroaded and drowned out by people who don't share those experiences.

BUT - I see nothing that provides people of color with a space.

I wouldn't want to invade there, but as someone who is white, and very aware that I pretty much just get the 'white story' from all areas of society, including MN, is this something that should be established?

I would see the potential benefits as 1. People who might want to share their experiences with others who would more immediately understand/agree with them could do so, and 2. I would want to lurk and hear the 'voices' of POC in order to drown out the white dominance I've grown up with.

I really hope I have raised this in a sensitive and appropriate way. I was prompted by a couple of things - one thread here about why women may not want men joining in a lot, which got taken over by a load of men joining in - and also, in RL, when a white friend shared some problems she's had as the partner of an African American, which really shocked me. I realized after that story that I have NO idea just what it is like to live with everyday racism, and then noticed how there isn't a space for that discussion on MN.

Would posters want this, or is MN so 'white' that other forums are being used instead?

This is beginning to look like goady fuckery.

No one cares about the "terms" you use in the US. Your racial politics are a disgrace.

Please stop trying to run the rest of the world.

You've acclimatized awful quick ..

FWIW, I am pretty sure that the OP is British.

I understand the suggestion to be about creating a place to discuss issues of race, which would be open to everyone. There is a lot of racism expressed on MN so it's obviously not just an American problem.

Also, the expression "people of color" is not about the one-drop rule. Its use arose to replace "non-white" to avoid the suggestion that white is the norm or the default.

I think a lot of people on this thread are intentionally misunderstanding the OP's intentions.

I agree... A goady thread designed to cause trouble

How do we know what colour people are and does it matter. We are all people with feelings that can be hurt. How does anyone know what colour I am.
Can people not discuss matters openly without mentioning religion or colour.
A section for people with red hair would be just as unsuitable as a section for people of colour or people from oop north or down south.
All lives matter so lets not put them in boxes.

It's racist.... Excluding white people

I think this video is very relevant to this thread ...

The British terminology is Black and Minority Ethnic; ethnic minorities can be white.

Yes, the US has different terminology around race and religion because there are different issues and history, but the issue is not just one of terminology, the context is entirely different. That means the US experience does not map well to the UK context (or indeed anywhere other than the US). Trying to insist it does and the US model of race relations is the lens through which race relations in the rest of the world should be viewed, never goes down well.

Which isn't to say I don't think there should be a separate board, but that really is a question for BME in the UK to decide.

I banged my head earlier, did I wake up in 1930?

I've seen "safe space" used quite a lot on MN recently. This is an open forum, free for anyone to join•. There is no way any of it is a genuine "safe space" and people would do better to remember this, I think.

•Of course there is OTBT but again it's still not completely inaccessible to others.

"safe space" just means that no discussion or dissent is allowed in case it hurts someone's feelings...

Erm, is it sexist to have a 'feminism' thread?
It isn't racist to have spaces where 'non white' people can discuss their experience IF they feel the need for such a space. It doesn't mean 'white' people are not welcome to that space, just that their experiences (just like a man on a feminism thread), would be coming from a totally different angle and as long as they weren't minimising the experiences of the people in question that was fine.

HOWEVER, I really really don't think MN needs a thread to discuss issues affecting racial minorities. And this is mainly because people of racial minorities do not face some sort of 'even' discrimination. Being Indian in Malaysia or Kenya, a Chinese person in the US, or a Pakistani in Britain, or an African person living in China, one MAY face issues relating to their race, but these are homogenous experiences.

I'm not in any way attempting to say that the US model should be copied, just explaining (badly) why for me PoC is the 'correct' term but I'll use BME from now on. When I last taught in the UK, BME wasn't being used, so I'll take that on board. (my bad! in US, or Sorry, my fault in UK).

I really just genuinely have come across a number of times when there have been issues that made me aware of some quite obvious racism and religious bigotry (the two are different but often intersectional issues). I can't just assume that someone would want to be able to moan about it safely, and genuinely wanted to know if some people would want that option.

Segregation and safe places are very different things, and I was definitely thinking of trying to create a safe space, rather than any form of segregation.

Obviously, I sound more American than I realise, even though I feel British 100%.

There are 'safe spaces'. There is a bereavement thread. Which I would say is a 'safe space' for those who have dealt with unimaginable grief. If I went there and began to claim that someone ought to 'get over' losing their child/parent/grandparent I would be violating that safe space. That's not an act of dissent.

I don't think safe spaces are bad ideas per se, but just that the internet can never be 'safe'. Even the bereavement topic I mentioned above is frequented by trolls.

What's OTBT?

I think some of the responses on here have been ridiculous. It's a reasonable suggestion and OP shouldn't get so much vitriol or be accused of GF just for trying to create a space for people.

Accusations of segregation are obviously goady fuckery. It's not hard to see that the OP had nice intentions and wasn't promoting some kind of apartheid

So far, I don't think many people who identify as being part of the group in question have voted as being in favour of it. But if there was a demand, I see no reason not to create it.

They key is whether it's wanted by members of the identified group or not. Whether a white person thinks it's "lefty handwringing outrageous racial politics" is neither here nor there.

I'm offended! Actually I'm not offended but that does seem to be the immediate reaction from a lot of people, I get where you are coming from OP. Certain religions would have issues that may be understood better by people with the same religion. OP is not saying that they have to post there but the option is there if they need more expertice advice. Calm down all.

KickAssAngel I agree with you.

To one poster who said BME mothers face exactly the same parenting problems/discrimination, that' s not true. Women of Colour experience more racism, a lot more. Remember when asylum seekers (many women) were told they could live on £35 a week? And now benefit sanctions have been rolled out across the board. What the authorities do to asylum seekers and BME they do because a lot of people won't protest about it, then everyone else gets treated the same. And BME women who report rape and violence to the police are treated on the whole A LOT worse than white women (and that's saying something). BME are treated worse by the police, there;s still instiutional racism in the police, includng how the police treat BME officers. I think there should be a Women of Colour topic and everyone should be included and supportive of it.

Have a look at this FB page:

www.facebook.com/womenofcolourglobalwomenstrike?fref=ts

Agree with Seneca Falls.

I am a little surprised at the vehemency of the response. And as for comparing being a racial minority with having freckles...meh.

Black Asian Minority Ethnic. Or BAME is the equivalent term in the UK. As a member of said group (I don't like the phrase myself) I sort of see your point. I love a good rant on the feminist boards and sometime wish there was an equivalent space to rant about race or cultural issues.
I also roll my eyes occasionally when I read a post written by someone from a non white background, many responses will not understand the cultural nuances around the subject and rant on about how "it's not acceptable in this country." Ear piercing is a great example, I had my ears pierced when I was a baby. The MN majority would be totally outraged by this but it's completely normal in many non-White ethnic groups to do this.

This makes me really uncomfortable. You come across as the person who follows someone going quietly about their business in a wheelchair without actual hindrance, screaming out 'make way for my disabled friend! Can't you see he's in a wheelchair!' Making a noisy deal, not to actually help, but to make yourself feel good/build your right on credentials. My brother encountered a couple of those, even 30 years ago. I still smile at his responses.

Disingenuous Barksdale. (Whether you meant to be or not.)

A white pseudo-American trying to tell people of many races on this board how they should feel and where they should post?

OTBT = off the beaten track

I know that it would be impossible to enforce, but in general people do stick to the topics, otherwise we may as well not have them. Someone going into the bereavement topic knows that they are doing so. Hopefully the majority of people would be respectful of that. I would hope that people would be respectful of any area they go to within MN.

To use another example from a recent thread. It was from a woman who lived with her in laws and was worried about being used as free childcare by her SIL. There were about 50 posts of 'why don't you live in your own home with your DH' before the OP got ONE reply that was religiously & culturally relevant to her. Would it have been more constructive for her if she could have posted somewhere that had more posters who would share her cultural & religious background? Of course, it is completely up to her where she chooses to post - but may she have wanted to hear some more relevant answers?

Ear piercing is a great example, I had my ears pierced when I was a baby. The MN majority would be totally outraged by this but it's completely normal in many non-White ethnic groups to do this.

I actually think.this is a really bad example. I am not comparing the two but FGM is also common in particular cultures. Just because something is a cultural norm doesn't mean it is "right"/ or a right and shouldn't be challenged by those of different cultures. Generally whenever an "ism" appears on a thread it is robustly challenged by others.