TransAgenda BullShit: The I am Spartacus Thread

[OscarDeLaYenta]

Post deleted by MNHQ as it broke our Talk Guidelines

KatieMN - just to be clear, is this MN's full response to all the various issues that have been flagged over the last week or so?

but what we'd ask you to think about is the impact on the parent who's not an activist, and likely isn't even posting, but whose adult child is transitioning, or who is doing so themselves. Would they feel belittled, mocked or attacked? Would they think Mumsnet was not for them? If so, we're going to have to remove it

So, we can't use "wrong" pronouns, even if we don't consider them to be wrong, just in case someone happens to be lurking who coincidentally knowns someone transitioning? Am I totally misunderstanding here??

Also, are you going to delete posts containing the word cis since plenty of us find it derogatory?

Another one asking about cis here.

I guess MNHQ are sticking to their previous position of "if a pp tells you that they don't want to be called cis then repeatedly doing so will be considering misgendering and will be deleted".

Which, IMHO, completely and utterly misses the point about the term, which many of us have said we find derogatory and insulting. (I imagine back in the day people were told that they had to accept being called a negro, even if they didn't like it, because some people were happy to use the label themselves. FFS.)

I'm confused about Mumsnet focusing on not upsetting the parents of adult transsexual people, too.

Why is that?

Because, as a site for parents, MN must always be supportive of parents? All parents? Theoretical parents?

I must say I find that odd, and surely an awful lot of topics are suddenly going to become taboo if we must suddenly consider any parents who might be offended by a discussion.

I get it, Mumsnet. You're thrown by this and wondering what on earth to do. But the "what about the parents?" angle is kind of a stretch too far... and it doesn't explain why posts about autogynephila are consistency zapped.

MNHQ

Had to unhide this thread to post

Maybe you'd be better posting your response as a new thread - because as predicted, it's going to cause some debate.

*CONSISTENTLY

KatieMN - just to be clear, is this MN's full response to all the various issues that have been flagged over the last week or so?

For now yes; it addresses the issue that has come up most frequently we think. But we'll certainly continue to listen and think.

Also, are you going to delete posts containing the word cis since plenty of us find it derogatory?

It seems sensible to apply the same rule of thumb to 'cis' - so where it's used pointedly to inflame/provoke etc, we'd delete it.

I'm afraid I've got to get my kids to bed now so probably won't be back again tonight - but as we said we'll continue to read your points and discuss them here.

Thanks all.

I'm afraid I've got to get my kids to bed now so probably won't be back again tonight - but as we said we'll continue to read your points and discuss them here

Why here? There are plenty of interested and concerned individuals who are involved in this debate and yet feel very uncomfortable reading this thread - for the very reasons you have pointed out in your response.

and it doesn't explain why posts about autogynephila are consistency zapped.

Sorry, meant to deal with this before standing down - as far as I know we've deleted one post about autogynephilia, because it implied that this was what motivated most or all trans women. We also deleted a subsequent post which quoted the first.

I am stunned this is considered an adequate response.

I am confused where the term 'cis' can ever not be inflammatory

If it is acceptable then it would be acceptable to describe white people as 'non' black. Or black people as 'non' white wouldn't it? If I am born a women I can't become a 'non trans' woman as 'cis' implies any more than I become a 'non' white person if I am born black

The word IS inflammatory and should be treated as such. Sorry I see not doing so as a bit of a cop out

Very uncomfortable reading this thread... What with all its BIOLOGY .... Only thing more disturbing would be to find out the earth's not flat.

Ego - this is not all about you!

I can't become a 'non trans' woman

How about we have trans people and non - trans people?

We all need to submit to the roolz of the feelz of the pronoun. None of that, er, science or logic shit

Ego - this is not all about you

Reported.

Ego that isn't a logical response to my point really. Am I a 'non white' 'cis 'woman?

Or am I a black woman?

This is SO much more complex than using personal pronouns appropriately.
Come on, MNHQ!

I can accept using 'cis' and 'trans' in the context of a sociological or medical or psychological study, but that is were it ends.
I am quite happy to call a person whatever they would like to be called (but have never and cannot see myself ever using 'cuntscum'). Women's rights are hard won, still lacking in many areas and are, guess what?!, for women.

Yes, allowing debate is a good thing, and no, inflammatory posts and PA should not be allowed, but there seems to be quite a strong bias

Why would you report such a thing? All a bit " I'm telling". Grow up

If I insisted on calling a biological male he, I would be deleted and yet they are happy to refer to me and people like me (biological female) as cis and it gets to stand?

Totally unfair.

Ignoring all the rhetoric. Logic says my skin is black and my biology is a woman.

Defining me as anything else leads to dehumanisation and 'otherness'. Which is oddly the thing that the trans movement wants to fight - and is doing so by creating biological woman as 'other' which in it's self is an extremely alpha male misogynist thing to do.

Reported for what? This thread shouldn't be 'very uncomfortable' reading at all, it is biology and science! But no, all these women are wrong and need to be silenced by you. Nice.

How about we have trans people and non - trans people?

We have a word already, thanks, woman - adult human female.

If that post gets deleted i will be convinced you have something on MNHQ.

Back away from the report button you are not helping the situation by behaving in such a childish manner

Sorry, but I actually cannot believe that that's HQ's response to this.

To my mind, the use of cis is ALWAYS inflammatory. Because it is being used to redefine me so that someone who has lived with male privilege can shift the goalposts.

Not only that, but you're trying to shut down debate on the off chance that a parent of a transperson is reading?

So, can we no longer talk about male violence in case the parent of a violent man is reading?

What about birthday party invitation threads? What if the parent of an uninvited child is reading?

Jesus! I'm furious!