TransAgenda BullShit: The I am Spartacus Thread

[OscarDeLaYenta]

Post deleted by MNHQ as it broke our Talk Guidelines

I'm Spartacus. Call me a TERF if you will.

I respect the right of transwomen to be a transwomen, of transmen to be transmen, and indeed of any individual to express gender as they wish or not at all.

I despise gender. This doesn't mean I despise other people's choices concerning their own gender.

Gender isn't another word for sex. Every cell in your body is sexed. Your gender expression cannot alter the sex of your body.

A woman is an adult human of the female sex. A woman may also be, in some rare cases, an adult human with chromosomes other than XX(X) and abnormal gene expression. Gene expression is a medical term pertaining to the chemical processes executed by cells. The existence of intersex humans proves that nature constantly experiments. It proves nothing about transgenderism.

Gene expression is a biological phenomenon. Gender expression is a superficial choice.

Biological females are women. Biological males are men. Transwomen are transwomen; they are biologically male. Therefore they are men, and transwomen.

Human societies have systematically oppressed women on the basis of their biology, not their gender expression. Gender is the tool through which this oppression is enforced. Gender also oppresses men, though less pervasively. Men who choose to adopt 'feminine' gender may thus find societies oppressing them in both ways at times. This is not women's fault. Women owe transwomen nothing but a bit of sympathy for having discovered gender oppression. Transwomen should think about this instead of demanding concessions.

Transwomen are not women, because they are biologically male. An adult human male cannot be a woman.
Transwomen are not welcome among women in situations where sex segregation is appropriate, because their sex is male.
Transwomen's oppressions are different from women's. Transwomen are not welcome among feminists unless they understand the differences.
Autogynephilic transwomen are not welcome among women unless they acknowledge their true reasons for transition and take appropriate steps to protect women from their fetish.
Sexually predatory transwomen are not welcome under any circumstances, no matter how much they insist they are women. They aren't women, they are predatory males.

I am Garlic and I am an unexpectedly verbose Spartacus.

he says it was a rash decision because he honestly believed he was 'female' due to those around him telling him 'oh you are trans, you are a woman, having x surgery will fix it!'

This is so awful - and so horribly widespread. That it's now happening to children is even more frightening.

Good to hear your friend's making progress towards real self-acceptance.

I have already stated that I am Sparticus.

But I wanted to add that I am Bigbiscuits.

I have thick curly dark hair.
I can spend hours straightening it and bleaching it. But the regrowth will always be curly and dark.

That is because every cell in my body contains dark curly hair genes. And I cannot change that.

I am a woman and I cannot be a man. because every cell in my body has female genes.

User1472 says exactly what I think and has clarified my very confused thoughts on this issue.

I don't align myself with a lot of the opinions expressed here but user 1472 expresses what I think. Sex can't be changed but if we eradicate expectations of gender - there would be no need for all the 'I feel this so I must be....this' and then the fear and rejection caused by someone feeling that way would be eradicated too.

I'm late to the party, but I am SpartacusWithAltitude.

Men cannot become women and women cannot become men.

I'm Spartacus tearingdownthewall. I'm shocked at the speed my rights are being dismissed by the trans lobby. The female penis doesn't exist.
I'm not cis. I'm just a human being who is of the female sex.
How the fuck have we ended up here??

I am spartacus. There's no such thing as a cis-woman.

I remain Spartacus.

This thread is very inspiring and has given voice to many things I have struggled to express. So thank you all

And I am hating narrow gender roles more and more

Ironically it was Ego's thread that lead me here.

I'm SpartacusClegane. I'm a woman. Women cannot be men, and men cannot be women. Sex is binary.

"It is insane that - rather than trying to challenge gender constraints - society seems hell-bent on reinforcing them with hormones, surgery and lies. This will harm us all -especially young gay people being pressured to transition, rather than accept their sexuality."

^^this with bells on. I have some American FB friends who gush about knowing 'transgender' children whose parents make them 'transition', and I am just horrified that this is really happening and no one speaks up and shouts STOP! It is insanity. Why is everyone whitewashing the issue, MNHQ included? Surely it's pretty simple - you cannot change your sex.

I am goodthinking99 and am so happy to be able to add my voice to this thread.

Everything they have said ^^. I am not transphobic, I am not cis, But I am deeply concerned about the erosion of women's rights, spaces and voices by the trans lobby.

Men silencing women...again.

I am jenrachoh.

I believe the same. My womanhood experiences, my girlhood experiences, my experiences of trying to keep out of reach from the sexual abuses of 5 step brothers, sexual harassment in school and the workplace the experiences of periods, pregnancy and childbirth are experiences only shared with other WBW.

I have no commonality with FTM transgender persons. They are not women like me. We have no shared or common experiences of female personhood.

Also Mumsnet.com while forbidding certain "phobias" in your rules, I am very concerned that a site such as yours that has users that are overwhelmingly female, have not included FemalePhobia, Woman Born Woman Phobia, and Lesbian Phobia as behavior that is not against the rules????? That would mean shame on you for not explicitly protecting your biggest user group!

I am Spartacus.
I don't want my daughter being watched by Autogynophiliac men whilst she changes into her bathers. And I don't want her confronted with a penis in the female change rooms.

Men who 'identify as female' and demand that females accept them as such are misogynists.

There is no such thing as a female penis.

I am spartacus.

and don't f#!*ing call me 'cis'!

I am Spartacus.

I am not an especially active MN user, but I have been floating around for years. I have learned a lot from these threads. I have been uncomfortable with the way trans rights have been heading for a while, but through reading and educating myself in much more detail, I have solidified why.

I am a woman. I am a lesbian. I find the whole concept of the cotton ceiling abhorrent. As I understand it, transwomen who push that agenda see it as the last great barrier to them fully becoming women. I reject that on the basis of basic biology. A transwoman can never be a woman, just as a transman can never be a man.

The T in LGBT was generally added as LGB spaces were safe. That safe space has in many ways now been taken away from the lesbian community. That is bullshit.

I respect the rights of every person to live, dress and act as they please, provided they do not encroach on another person's rights and freedoms. Transpeople (esp transwomen) are encroaching on women's rights and freedoms. Enough.

I am Spartacus.

Widen the boundaries of your sex. So not dictate the norms of mine.

^^ this is from the the second page of this thread and is perfect.

I am Hex.
I am a woman.
Don't call me Cis.

I know you're maintaining a safe silence whilst you make your decisions, but as a long- term member, I am holding my breath to see where you draw your line in the sand. I don't envy you in this climate at all, but to me, I see a massive turning point ahead, with MN as the catalyst. Please do the right thing by all women, by all our children.

I will take a ban for this.

My eyes are opening.

And stop calling me transphobic. i dont have any phobias and I''m not scared of anyone. The post-op MTF transexual I know is very pleasant company and I enjoy spending time with her. She doesn't call me a cis woman and try and tell me her experience of being a woman is more valid than mine. She's just quietly getting on with her life.

THANK YOU everyone for this thread! Finally women are speaking out!

I am female and proud to be the mother of two females, one hetero and one lesbian. My son is hetero.

LGB is about sexuality that doesn't conform to the norm of hetero. Trans conforms to the norm of hetero.

It is lesphobic to insist that a lesbian likes penis. Feck off with that shite.

Hello all

Thanks for all your input on this - we've been listening and thinking hard.

Couple of quick points to clear up: it's actually not the case that people have been banned solely for misgendering - it will have been part of a broader discussion here about whether that poster is able to stick to the rules generally.

We must admit to being slightly taken aback at being cast, by some, as the evil slave-baiting Roman republic in this - as lots of you have pointed out, Mumsnet remains one of the few places where these issues can be discussed at all. It would have been much, much easier (both in terms of the resource and the toll on our moderators' sanity!) to shut down the debate as others have done, but instead we are working hard to find a realistic balance between free speech and being a space which welcomes everyone.

From our perspective, the whole issue is pretty much covered by our Talk Guidelines. If people are using sex-at-birth pronouns to provoke, inflame, or belittle, then that's against the rules and will usually have to go. If it happens as part of an otherwise broadly respectful (even if heated) discussion, we look at it in that context and take a view.

Some of you have pointed out a disjunct between allowing posts which mirror mainstream scientific thinking, while asking MNers not to describe a trans woman as 'he'. We can see your point on this,and also accept that there is a fair amount of dodgy stuff on the trans side that can rightly be described as anti-feminist and regressive - but what we'd ask you to think about is the impact on the parent who's not an activist, and likely isn't even posting, but whose adult child is transitioning, or who is doing so themselves. Would they feel belittled, mocked or attacked? Would they think Mumsnet was not for them? If so, we're going to have to remove it. It's a fudge, but it's the best we can do at this stage.

In all but the most extreme headline-grabbing cases, we do think it's possible to debate the core principles without referring to individuals in a way which will cause hurt. Most of you have said that when talking to a trans person face-to-face you wouldn't insist on using birth pronouns or names - and generally, on this and other issues, we encourage people to treat others with the same courtesy they'd use in real life. For every MNer who posts on a thread there are likely to be ten who are lurking - statistically, some of those will be trans or love someone who is, and we need to take account of them too.

We hope that makes our thinking a bit clearer overall. Do continue to tell us your thoughts - it's probably unrealistic to think that this issue will be quickly resolved here or across society as a whole, but it would be brilliant if MN could be part of the solution, we think.

MNHQ

balance between free speech and being a space which welcomes everyone.

Love your phrasing here. Shows that the trans-activism thing IS against free speech.

but whose adult child is transitioning, or who is doing so themselves. Would they feel belittled, mocked or attacked? Would they think Mumsnet was not for them?

You delete posters for pointing out the benefits of vaccines in case of offending anti-vaxxers?