TransAgenda BullShit: The I am Spartacus Thread

[OscarDeLaYenta]

Post deleted by MNHQ as it broke our Talk Guidelines

Clona, I'm sorry about what happened to you, and I'm sorry that women in your position have to revisit your trauma to explain why women need safe, women-only spaces.

In a world where the vast majority of violence, sexual crime and threatening behaviour is carried out by biological men, the most stupid 'solution' possible is to open up spaces used to protect the most vulnerable so that effectively all men have free access .

I will gladly support transpeople in a campaign for the provision of suitable facilities- refuges, hospital wards , toilets , victim support provision, prisons, changing rooms. However, these facilities are separated by sex and not gender for good reasons; safety is obviously key, but it is also a fact that the differences in biology between women and transwomen mean that different services are required.

I refuse to comply with the insistence that biology can be ignored.

I refuse to accept that laws should be rewritten to pander to gender stereotypes.

I refuse to accept that penises are female.

Menstruation, ovulation, pregnancy, giving birth, and breast feeding are functions of the female human body. I will not support any erosion of the rights intended to protect women in these groups which results from poorly-defined, gender-based legislation.

I refuse to accept that 'women' is a group which means 'any adult who doesn't fit into the stereotypically acceptable group of men'.

I don't agree that the issue of autogynephilia can be made to disappear by pretending it doesn't exist, or by threatening anyone who mentions it.

The issues around the forced transition of children are terrifying. This is a hell of a lot scarier than pink Lego, yet nobody dares speak out to question it.

Classifying transwomen as women, rather than as biological men or even simply as transwomen, means that any data which relies on accurate reporting of sex -such as medical data-is meaningless.

Insisting that we refer to criminals who have used penises to commit sexual crimes as women shows utter contempt for rape and abuse survivors.

I am not cis. I am a woman.

And it's telling that my biggest concern after posting on this thread is not the prospect of being banned by MNHQ. It's the threat of reprisals by those activists who think that the way to rationally answer women's concerns about violence and sexual attack is to make threats of violence and sexual attack.

Males can NEVER become female. Trans "women" are MALE, and always will be. Penises are MALE sex organs. Autogynephiles are abusing and gaslighting women in online spaces and real-life spaces. Autogynephiles are raping lesbians. STOP this madness. Speak the TRUTH! Male feelings are NOT more important than female reality and safety.

I'm here to show my support for the women of mumsnet.

Women can never be men.
Men can never be women.

You can dress how you want and do what you want with your body, I'll never say you can't.

What you can't do is call yourself a woman.

I'm a feminist and a mum and I won't sit by and pretend this isn't illogical and nonsensical.

Biology is real and you can't deny reality.

Time to step up.

I Refuse being forced to accept the nonsense behind the worst if the trans agenda. Just as i refuse those who would force me to believe the world is flat or that their is a God or the sky is green. That is the route of irrational thinking and oppression.

The transgender movement is the misogynistic appropriation of womanhood and our oppression.

Gender is a dangerous social construct, designed to oppress women - to keep them at the bottom of the patriarchal hierarchy. Everything 'feminine' is seen as less than traditionally 'masculine'. Children and adults who are attracted to the opposite sex's toys, clothes, and pursuits are being encouraged and even forced into believing they are 'born in the wrong body'. So they are treated with dangerous hormones and unnecessary surgery - so that they will fit into our patriarchal society's idea of gender.

Eliminate gender - so people are free to present how they like and follow the pursuits that they wish, without thinking there is something wrong with them and their bodies. No one is born in the wrong body - the patriarchy tells them they are, and this is wrong. Men can't become women. There is no such thing as a woman with a penis.

I'm another mostly lurker posting support. I do not believe gender is anything other than a social construct, one which constricts us all. Men cannot become women and women cannot become men. I know that must be very painful for some people but I don't think it does them any favours to pretend any different and in fact leads to a lot of anger and bitterness at the world in the long run.

I am Spartacus.

I am most troubled by the transing of children and teens. The articles I have read and documentaries I have watched have all without exception shown children doing their gender a bit different from what society expects of their sex and on that basis the children and their families conclude that (a) there is a problem, and (b) the sex is the problem. This is just wrong wrong wrong. We need to rise up together and demand a society that better understands that sex is a biological reality but beyond its biological reality it offers no constraints on the performance of gender and that gender as most people understand it is a myth. It is society that constrains gender performance: there is no biological reason why your son cannot wear dresses and make up, enjoy nurturing dolls, prefer cuddles and crafts over rough play and sport and see women as role models; there is no biological reason why your daughter cannot shave her head, play with guns and swords, play contact sport competitively, be interested in motors and see men as role models. I want to see the very notion of gender challenged and diversified; I don't want to see children and teens mutilated because society is too narrow minded to do this.

The trans movement has only taken the fight for acceptance of gender diversity backwards, as far as I can see it, because the fundamental claim is that gender is necessarily polarised and should match your sex and this is reinforced by the attempts to alter sex to match the gender performance the person wants to make. I'm especially dismayed by the trotting out of the male brain / female brain nonsense.

The cotton ceiling disgusts and appals me. The irony is that this is very clearly male entitlement.

This thread is a little bit intimidating to be honest.

I do believe in "born in the wrong body". I was also astonished at recent events at Edinburgh University and thought the person's comments and actions were abhorrent. That certainly doesn't mean I believe all transwomen are not women.

I respect different opinions and hope I'm not attacked for having my own.

I am MsSpartacus.

Sex is a biological fact. Males have XY sex chronomsomes and this cannot be changed whatever the modifications to the exterior, or sex hormones ingested.

Females have XX sex chromosomes and this cannot be changed whatever the modifications to the exterior, or sex hormones ingested.

Gender is an oppressive social construct.

I refuse to accept that 'women' is a group which means 'any adult who doesn't fit into the stereotypically acceptable group of men'

Men who insist that lesbians are bigoted for not wanting to sleep with them are dangerously predators.

Onslow don't be intimidated- pop over to the 'this is bullshit 3' thread also in site stuff, although the title sounds a bit aggressive the posters aren't and you can discuss anything you might be questioning about this thread in particular or trans stuff generally.

Onslow, did you read my post around "born in the wrong body"? No attack, I'm just curious if you believe people are born with a 'soul'?

I'll c&p so you don't have to look for it :)

"Ps - sperm is made in daddy's bollocks. When it's made, during meiosis ii it becomes an x sperm or a y sperm. Sex of future baby is determined at this point.
If gender is your 'brain sex', it (assuming there isn't a soul floating around...) will be formed when the neural tube (ie very early brain) is at about 3-4 weeks gestation.

Even if there were any physical 'proof' of incompatibility of brain and sex, the sex was there first. "Born in the wrong body" is bullshit. At the most, it is a fault in the brain."

The brain is formed a very minimum of three weeks after the sex is determined. How does this tally with "born in the wrong body"?

Oh yes, sorry, the other thread is probably a better idea

Thanks MephistoMarley and Beyond. I'll head over there now and have a read. I didn't realise from the title that it was related.

I am Chala. I am not a cis woman. A man cannot be a woman. A lesbian cannot have a penis. And I am Spartacus.

I agree with almost everything here.

My concern, and anger if I am honest, is that men - as a group - still get to be 'men' and all trans people are lumped in with women and women do not get our own voice we are 'other'.

The first thing that shaped this for me was the loo issue. It was always MtF trans fighting for rights to use ladies loos never 'lets campaign for safe, secure unisex loos alongside male/female' often female loos are relabelled as unisex and male loos are still male. The issue for me is women have always been oppressed by men and that our spaces were/are being opened up to biological males.

A woman can and will still feel threatened by a male no matter how he chooses to present himself. Penis or not women (and men tbf) can and do feel threatened by a biological male. Very few men feel threatened by females.

I do not have any issue with a persons right to choose how they present themselves. How they wish to look is no one else's business but theirs.

I do have an issue, not from a social standpoint but a health one, that trans people who choose to legally change sex and fill in forms as being either male or female will be overlooked. A MtF will still be at risk of prostate cancer, testicular. A FtM will still be at risk of cervical, ovarian and breast cancer.

I also don't think surgery is the answer in most cases. It can make the problem worse. I'm sure for some its case of body dysmorphic disorder. I have read some studies that suggest BDD is under diagnosed and around 2% of the population struggles with this crippling anxiety disorder. interestingly men and women suffer equally from it. Surgery is not the always the answer.

I speak from experience here. I knew a MtF who also struggled with BDD. Breast implants didn't help him, control underwear to hide obvious maleness didn't help him, nor did presenting as female in the 'right' clothes. The only thing that did work for him was very intensive therapy over a couple of years. This culminated in him removing the implants (he says it was a rash decision because he honestly believed he was 'female' due to those around him telling him 'oh you are trans, you are a woman, having x surgery will fix it!') and coming to terms with his femininity in a male body. He still struggles with the anxiety around BDD,He has anger at the people who convinced him he was female but he is far happier now than he was 5 years ago. He is comfortable enough to present as a man or as a woman often it is somewhere in between. . Granted he is only one person out of thousands but he certainly happier having had the right support.

I do think this is the bigger issue though. That maleness is so black and white and so narrow that few feel they it in.

I hope I haven't offended anyone reading this and I am still learning and changing my views. A while a go I was very pro trans surgery but as I have talked with people both in RL and online it has reshaped my views that this very black and white 'states male is male, states female is female' is damaging for everyone not just the person struggling with their identity.

I'm Spartacus. I'm a woman, an adult female human. I can never be a man despite what concoction of drugs and surgery I could have. I can wear what I like, be interested in whatever I like and still be me, a woman. What I choose to be like is called a personality and NOT a gender identity which is an acceptance of a set of gender stereotypes in our culture. I do not accept the word 'cis' and believe it should be banned to call other people this term on mumsnet.
Men cannot become women. They are men and need to accept that. Wearing a dress and holding a handbag should not force any official body to accept that a man is a woman and should be treated like a woman.
Biological differences are real and they are the basis for our need for feminism. They cannot be trumped by someone's feelings. "Living as a woman" includes having periods, having XX chromosomes, having a body that is capable of having children, which cannot be done by a man.

I am Spartacus. On MN for 7 years. I am a woman, not a cis-woman.

*Transmen are transmen - not men
Transwomen are transwomen - not women
I am not cis, I am a woman
There is no such thing as a female penis

And gender is a harmful social construct, which harms women and men, but women more.

FRETCKNNICUF
The person I was referring to was in a longstanding relationship which broke up, hence the loss of life.
I think RL experience is a benchmark. As far as Im concerned I lost a work friend.
Things that are well documented, quoted surveyed and shown as stats are not feelings.
Feelings can be hurt !
Anyway I am not and refuse to be lanyarded as cis or any other label.
I am me I am female, I went through labour and gave birth.

Thank you so much for all your kind messages; I hope that sharing my experience helps people to realise why some of us are so fearful of the erosion of female-only space and the promotion of the trans agenda if it is actively anti-women. I hope MNHQ consider the views and fears of vulnerable women when considering whether or not to ban us all.
I am still Spartacus.

LGBTEXECJust because your profile says you're female (not cis) doesn't mean you are. It's not proof is it, since anyone can fill in the profile info with whatever the fuck they want. If you are indeed female then SHAME ON YOU. Women colluding with men to suppress and oppress ourselves is one of the main contributing factors in inequality of the sexes.

I am thoroughly and unashamedly Spartacus.!!!Again!!!

Clona - we appreciate your posts. They clarify that there is no virtue in being a 'trans ally' (or more accurately a TA ally) if it is at the expense of being an ally to women such as yourself.

I am a biological woman.

One of my ovaries was removed due to torsion and complications.

Men do not suffer from ovarian torsion. Men do not have ovaries.

Men cannot 'grow' exclusively female organs no matter how many hormone shots or plastic surgeries they get. Ever.

And males cannot be resocialized into women no matter how hard they try to perform femininity.