Seriously MN this is fucking bullshit.

[DeathAnTaxes]

Message from MNHQ: We're afraid we felt we had to delete this thread as we feel like it has strayed way outside of our Talk Guidelines. We do regard deliberate, malicious misgendering (as opposed to accidental slip ups) as transphobic. Thank you to everyone who took the time to post thoughtfully here. We understand folks will want to talk more about pronouns and trans issues in general on another thread perhaps - but we would ask that you do so in way that doesn't rehash or repeat this thread. Thanks.&Message from MNHQ: We're afraid we felt we had to delete this thread as we feel like it has strayed way outside of our Talk Guidelines. We do regard deliberate, malicious misgendering (as opposed to accidental slip ups) as transphobic. Thank you to everyone who took the time to post thoughtfully here. We understand folks will want to talk more about pronouns and trans issues in general on another thread perhaps - but we would ask that you do so in way that doesn't rehash or repeat this thread. Thanks.

ONE poster wanted to discuss pronouns and they won. A thread about women being shut down by transactivists was shut down by a ta.

Fucking brilliant.

AND FOR THE RECORD THE PERSON'S PRONOUNS ARE 'THEY'

A vile misogynist was "misgendered" be being called he, because we can not even discuss who is doing this.. It is he's. It is men.

they was not even a thing 5 years ago. If I today demanded my pronouns be "Vagina owner" would everyone have to respect that?

I don't know if anyone's read 'benefit' by Zoe Fairbairns, but it makes a similar point: the 'Family' party who want to 'reward those who take care of their family and support mothers' etc make 'sexism' illegal .... Defining sexism as 'hatred of women in their natural role' and thus completely hijacking and reversing the meaning of the term. I keep being reminded of this, as 'feminism' seems to mean something completely different for the tumblr generation and the trans activists.

Thanks, Kiran

Oh, to be a fly on the wall at that meeting...

MNHQ, please can you move this thread out of Chat whilst you consider your response?

In your MNHQ discussion can you please revisit the term "cis" as it is offensive and how it still remains acceptable language whilst debating he/she is a grey area is beyond me.

What I don't understand is why this thread, up at 751 posts as I write, hasn't appeared on Trending any time I have looked? MNHQ are you silencing the debate by hiding it? God forbid: censorship like this would lead me to deregister. I am reporting my post as I would like an honest answer to this. If you are censoring women's debate about major issues of women's rights then you have already jumped the shark.

Oh, to be a fly on the wall at that meeting...

Maybe they could live stream it, in the interests of transparency?

Yy Creeping

Long time lurker posting in support. The world is obsessed with putting everyone in boxes.

Its gender misappropriation.

I heard a comment that made my blood boil yesterday. A non-binary friend told another friend he needs PReP as he is a 'femme' so can't demand partners use condoms.

He totally didn't understand why my friend was furious at the suggestion that being feminine means that you aren't sexually autonomous or responsible or why it was a misogynistic view.

He. Just. Didn't. Get. It.

No disrespect kiran but doesn't this merit some attention from someone like Justine or Carrie. You have hundreds of MNetters objecting to your stance.

"A non-binary friend told another friend he needs PReP as he is a 'femme' so can't demand partners use condoms"

what does this even mean?

YY - Move out of Chat.

I did NOT say they had no right of comment, I said it was ironic that a site named for those who notionally could (even if they did not, or say, adopted) , were , at the behest of those without even the notional ability, to silencing the former.
It is ironic and it's the irony if that that should be every bit as offensive .
Silencing women over the topic of a deeply nasty individual, such as Ada Wells , is not okay.

I was banned last night for saying a man can't become a woman.

I could just sneak back in and who would know as long as I stayed off that topic.

But actually, no. Hell no. Why should I condone such a concept that I fundamentally think is wrong? Support a website that would ignore women in this way and succumb to the loudest shouting in a debate on something so very important.

Pre Exposure Prophylaxis: HIV -ve folk taking HIV medication as a preventative ( I had to Google!)

LowDudgeon - www.iwantprepnow.co.uk/

preventative HIV meds...

We've moved this to Site Stuff now.

Echo Hermione.

For many of us, this is an absolutely crucial decision that MN needs to make. That decision will mean either:

That MN assert that womanhood is defined in terms of biology. Hence, I, Oscar, am a woman by virtue of my biology.

That MN assert that womanhood is defined in terms of whether someone feels like a woman. Hence, I, Oscar, am a woman purely because I feel like one.

The whole pronouns debate is not merely about being polite and nice and respectful of people's preferences and feelings. It concerns fundamental questions of ontology that effect all of us.

I was banned last night for saying a man can't become a woman.

Eh? Banned from what, where, here? But a man can't become a woman, that's impossible - why aren't you/we allowed to say it?

A man can not become a woman.

I'm guessing femme means he is feminine non-binary? I'm not sure how being feminine prevents you from demanding a partner uses protection though - I'm a fairly 'feminine' female and I've never found it challenging!

I do however find that a lot of the non-binary and trans ideas around what a woman (or indeed femininity) is are hugely restrictive and stereotypical. Many seem to think being a woman means either being a simpering little lady who does exactly what she's told, or some sort of hyper sexualised femme fatale.

Well, it's simple . Women have the right to say no.
To attempt to circumvent this by shaming them as bigots and transhobes is - well - kinda rapey, and, I might suggest, not something with lifelong FEMALE socialisation would do.
It hurts being rejected, but what women do , is move on.
It's. What. Women. Do. ***hinthinthint

Thank you Kate.

"it's going to take us time to work through these complex, emotive issues before we can get back to you with a fully considered response. "

The very fact you have to work on a response should tell you that this issue is nuts. This is a clear example of pandering to every cause while logic's been left sleeping.

Full support to the OP

Decaf, I could roam this site saying Formula Feeding is Evil and that everyone who has a faith is a deluded fool who believes in an invisible Sky Fairy.

I cannot, it seems, say that a man can't become a woman.