Seriously MN this is fucking bullshit.

[DeathAnTaxes]

Message from MNHQ: We're afraid we felt we had to delete this thread as we feel like it has strayed way outside of our Talk Guidelines. We do regard deliberate, malicious misgendering (as opposed to accidental slip ups) as transphobic. Thank you to everyone who took the time to post thoughtfully here. We understand folks will want to talk more about pronouns and trans issues in general on another thread perhaps - but we would ask that you do so in way that doesn't rehash or repeat this thread. Thanks.&Message from MNHQ: We're afraid we felt we had to delete this thread as we feel like it has strayed way outside of our Talk Guidelines. We do regard deliberate, malicious misgendering (as opposed to accidental slip ups) as transphobic. Thank you to everyone who took the time to post thoughtfully here. We understand folks will want to talk more about pronouns and trans issues in general on another thread perhaps - but we would ask that you do so in way that doesn't rehash or repeat this thread. Thanks.

ONE poster wanted to discuss pronouns and they won. A thread about women being shut down by transactivists was shut down by a ta.

Fucking brilliant.

AND FOR THE RECORD THE PERSON'S PRONOUNS ARE 'THEY'

A vile misogynist was "misgendered" be being called he, because we can not even discuss who is doing this.. It is he's. It is men.

they was not even a thing 5 years ago. If I today demanded my pronouns be "Vagina owner" would everyone have to respect that?

How many posters have been banned on Trans threads in the last few days. Does anyone know?

Hey, I just had an idea. We could threaten a boycott of MN advertisers and sponsors over their weirdly misogynst stance!

I see the distinction now, thank you for expanding on that venus. And yes, I agree with the point you make.

Nothing new to add but my support.

Language is all we have. The older I get the more disgusted I am by this world where being born female is so shit.

To be honest I think that is the only thing they'd listen to, Hermione.

They really threatened you with a ban for not calling child rapist when male Davina Ayrton a she? Fucking hell MNHQ, sort your priorities out.

I agree absolutely with the OP!

I hate the constant reducing of threads about trans subjects to debates on pronouns. It's a much more gnarly subject than that, and I totally agree with the OP.

I do mostly avoid trans threads but that's because I'm pathetically scared of the banhammer, not because I don't have an opinion.

I could understand the issue a little more if we were discussing post-op trans females. Though I still think people have the right to sleep with who they like, but in that case I could understand more for it to be seen as transphobia.

However..the people kicking off about it seem to be the ones who still have a dick. So they want to fuck lesbians the 'traditional' way with their penis. This is not about trans-issues IMO, its about a few sick individuals trying to bully women into having sex with them. And so many thinking this is their right to do?!

Thank you Page, I'm glad you worked out what my garbled post was trying to say!

This is not about trans-issues IMO, its about a few sick individuals trying to bully women into having sex with them. And so many thinking this is their right to do?!

Yes, but as brasty said it's a perfectly logical conclusion of trans ideology.

This lack of a coherent public response from HQ is beginning to indicate that they do not care about the views expressed on this thread but would rather contact posters on it privately and threaten to ban them. The tides are turning and I think MNHQ are going to shoot themselves in the foot. Especially if a journo gets hold of this...

Yes it is not a few sick individuals. We need to understand how it all fits together.

The Trans movement and ideology does not exist without misogyny. It is at its core.

venus
Earlier in the thread I said:
If a particular lesbian doesn't want to fuck trans women: no cotton ceiling. Just an individual with a preference. Anyone who shouts cotton ceiling at her is thick misinformed, and probably abusive.

I don't think I'm obfuscating. My point is to call attention to the way some trans activists misuse the phrase 'cotton ceiling'. As originally conceived, the idea allowed for a general discussion of desirability. As misused against individuals, it's potentially abusive. There are allegations that Ada Wells misused the term in this way. My point is only that this kind of misuse of the term is - to say the least - highly inappropriate.

I suppose I could just say 'It seems to me, from what other people are saying, that Ada Wells is a total arsehole.'

But I do actually think it's also useful to talk about that particular phrase and other ways it's understood.

Yes it is understood as most lesbians do not see trans women as desirable sexual partners.
And there is a reason for that.

Can anyone summarise what's happened? On a break at work and never get a chance to catch up on the long threads....

adjustable how do you get through life? You find the idea that lesbians don't want sex with male people "interesting" and "complex". You also want to explore the ways the cotton ceiling can be "understood". It's a simple concept - that TW sexual access to lesbians' bodies is the last barrier that needs to be "broken through" for trans equality. It's corrective rape.

What brasty said.

I'm utterly gobsmacked that misgendering is apparently wrong for Davinia. What the hell? A man raped someone with his penis. Im sure the victim wouldnt have been less traumatised by a 'lady cock'.

And Hermione defines the "cotton ceiling" incredibly well. It's putting lesbian sexuality on a par with discrimination.

I don't think there's an equivalent term for straight men not wanting sex with TW is there ? The focus on forcibly breaking through women's underwear is revolting

Others have said it far more eloquently than i can, so posting in support of OP and to say I wholeheartedly agree

I'd be disappointed to see all the informed, articulate women who opened my eyes to the extent of this banned or leaving, especially since every time the effect on women's rights and safety is discussed there are many, many new women who are horrified at how severe the impact could be.

Clearly MNHQ are not going to commit to a strong pro-women stance on this; the fact that many of these threads have been allowed to stand is probably the strongest signal they are likely to give in terms of support. I think the bigger picture is that the large number of women who read MN get the opportunity to raise their awareness in a debate argued by women who can present the facts , as opposed to almost every other heavily skewed and moderated media outlet .

Why is using "he" instead of "she" offensive but "cis" is permissible on this forum? I'm not cis, whatever the fuck that means, I'm a woman so I'm "she". I find cis offensive. And stupid.

My support too - I am sick of threads which are NOT nasty or personally insulting being deleted and labelled "transphobic".

This is a hugely important issues for all women - and MN should be at the forefront of intelligent debate, not being cowed into submission by a very vocal minority.