Protesting deletions on the thread about trans sex offender

[MephistoMarley]

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2699708-to-think-this-person-should-be-in-jail?msgid=62706219#62706219

I thoroughly dispute that my posts or many of the op's posts were transphobic. I stated several times that people can't change sex and that trans women are male, these are absolute, verifiable facts. Not matters of opinion. And definitely not phobic or bigoted statements. Something has changed in your moderation policy recently and a lot more is being deleted for perceived transphobia which wouldn't have previously. What is happening here? Are we being shut down? Are facts beyond the pale at mumsnet now?

[StephanieDA]

'He' and 'she' are pronouns relating to the sexes, that's all. They don't refer to identities, a pronoun does not describe a personality type. I don't accept that someone's personal identity overrides and cancels out their biological sex. 'Woman' is not an identity but if I have to use 'she' to refer to a male I am forced to accept this new definition. Why is it that those who believe 'woman' is an identity get to win? Why is it OK to discriminate against those who believe know that men and women are biological sex categories? Do we have to accept that 'woman' is now an identity to post on here? So many questions.

[venusinscorpio]

I do what beyond does. It sounds jarring, but it makes it clear how I feel about it. I'm not being gaslighted.

[user1468138738]

Why is it that those who believe 'woman' is an identity get to win?

Because they're usually men.

[MephistoMarley]

Hi there MNHQ
I know you're really busy but do you have an idea how long you will take to discuss this thread? Thanks

[Fomalhaut]

Just to add my voice to the chorus. MN, it is vital that you remain a feminist, brave website.
There are too few places on the web where intelligent reasoned discussion can take place, and too many where women's voices are silenced.
Recently I've noticed just how increasingly prevalent that silencing is. The thread about the guardian for example shows how many people think the media shoves women under the bus to avoid offending men. Religious men, transgender men... Etc

You cannot change your biological sex. It's In every cell in your body, as an xx or XY phenotype (barring rare genetic conditions.) we can and should be railing against gender Expectations- these damage men and women both.

But we cannot deny certain facts:

Transwomen have the same rate of sexual violence against at women as men. That fact alone means we desperately need to debate things like the bathroom issue without resorting to mudslinging and censorship.
Right now, mumsnet is the only place I can think of where this can be discussed and I'm very concerned if voices are ring silenced. I think most MNers are of the rather reasonable stance that transwomen should be safe, able to participate in society and not be subjected to harassment or discrimination but not at the expense of women's safe spaces

Glad you're having a look at the moderation on this one. Be brave. Be fair, don't silence us

[Bardolino]

I can't help thinking that this whole transgender phenomena that is snowballing at the moment is a result of the extreme gender stereotyping of our society: the negative effects of this on our children sparked the successful Let toys be toys campaign. That campaign was born and grew through discussions on Mumsnet, with the full support of MNHQ.

That MNHQ are now being asked to silence those who continue the discussion is appalling, and that MNHQ are taking so long to dismiss those requests is beyond disappointing. Please MNHQ, be strong and let the discussion go on.

[ManicMechanic]

I think MNHQ need to explain more clearly their definition of transphobia?

[BertPuttocks]

I too would like to see a MN definition of transphobia.

How on earth is saying that "XY chromosomes = male" worthy of deletion?

If so, could you also give us plenty of warning before "the Earth is not flat" becomes terraphobic?

Thanks.

[BeyondBeyondBeyondBeyondBeyond]

Yes to all that.

I'd really like to pop into the brain of the women here who agree that it's transphobic to use actual biology rather than gender-feelz on mn. I really don't understand the level of disconnect that it must take to agree with it.

[BapsOfSteel]

I think Mn, that until the word woman or man actually legally changes and the vast majority of people (and scientists) accept and use it such you have to accept the way the word has been used since, well since it's been a word.

[SpecialAgentFreyPie]

I have a gut feeling MNHQ knows they fucked up.

I posted in another thread why their choice upset me so, but my points are all made so eloquently by others, (looking at you Formal, MrsHathaway, Beyond and many, many more!) there's no need to copy and past how much this idiotic decision distressed me.

[BapsOfSteel]

www.gofundme.com/WoLF-vs-USA

For anyone who is interested in helping but not sure how

[microferret]

In agreement with the posters here. MN, please don't silence us. There are now so few places where women can discuss this issue without being censored. This is affecting us and our hard-won rights. The mainstream left has completely demonised and abandoned radical feminists, and regularly sweeps the huge swathe of evidence of documented harm against women committed by males claiming to be trans under the rug.

Please let us speak, and don't penalise us for stating objective, neutral fact.

[MephistoMarley]

Hi MNHQ! How's it going? Not trying to be obnoxious but I was wondering about reconsidering those deletions?
Thanks

[SpecialAgentFreyPie]

I'd also like to know. IMO though MNHQ knows they fucked up, but they're hardly going to say that. If it happens again then I'm flouncing, toddler tantrum style

[CoteDAzur]

" MN, it is vital that you remain a feminist, brave website. "

^ This.

Don't let us down, MNHQ.

[MephistoMarley]

If it is now official policy that disputing the statement 'transwomen are women' is transphobia and worth deletion we really need to know. Personally I feel strongly that it's up for discussion but if we have lost the right to challenge opposing perspectives then we're all fucked

[CoteDAzur]

I doubt it, Mephisto.

At least as long as dictionaries continue to define Woman as Adult human female and Female as Of the sex that can bear young or make eggs,

[MephistoMarley]

Well that's pretty much what I said in the deleted posts I think. And that being physically male but psychologically female was impossible.

[LilacSpunkMonkey]

Another one who is with the OP (and others) 100% on this.

I have been educated on the whole trans thing on MN and feel it is an island in a sea of stupidity (where Caitlyn Jenner can win Woman of the Year ffs).

I am not cis, I am a woman. Caitlyn Jenner is not a woman, she is a transwoman. A man with a penis is a man. That is a fact.

And anyone who is bored with this, stop reading. I don't read threads on the soaps because they are boring.

[Inertia]

We could avoid problems around the issue of pronouns and names when discussing convicted criminals in these cases by avoiding the use of pronouns or names, similar to the suggestion in the Hermione Weasley example above. For example, we could just repeatedly use the phrase 'sex offender convicted of using own penis to commit sexual crimes against a child'. Tedious to read , and to copy and paste, but factually correct and no danger of accusations of misgendering / 'deadnaming' .

[HermioneWeasley]

HQ are you ever going to come back and explain your decisions?

[CoteDAzur]

I am reading a book called The Epigenetics Revolution at the moment. It is mostly at cellular and even molecular level, but this bit explains the sexes:

"At a purely biological, and especially an anatomical level, men and women are different. There are ongoing debates about whether or not certain behaviours, ranging from aggression to spatial processing, have a biological gender bias. But there are certain physical characteristics that are linked unequivocally to gender. One of the most fundamental differences is in the reproductive organs. Women have ovaries, men have testicles. Women have a vagina and a uterus, men have a penis."

I would like MNHQ to clarify whether they find this (non-fiction) book about epigenetic modifications on the DNA "transphobic".

Another excerpt from the next page:

"The notation to describe the normal chromosomal constitution of human makes is 46, XY. Females are described as 46, XX because they don't have a Y chromosome and instead have two XX chromosomes."

Again, is the author a vile transphobe? Or a scientist with knowledge of basic human biology?

[witsender]

Adding my voice to those above.