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Protesting deletions on the thread about trans sex offender

193 replies

MephistoMarley · 03/08/2016 15:22

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2699708-to-think-this-person-should-be-in-jail?msgid=62706219#62706219

I thoroughly dispute that my posts or many of the op's posts were transphobic. I stated several times that people can't change sex and that trans women are male, these are absolute, verifiable facts. Not matters of opinion. And definitely not phobic or bigoted statements. Something has changed in your moderation policy recently and a lot more is being deleted for perceived transphobia which wouldn't have previously. What is happening here? Are we being shut down? Are facts beyond the pale at mumsnet now?

OP posts:

Report

UnexpectedBaggage · 04/08/2016 07:11

That I may soon have to share spaces with biological males erodes my rights as a female and it will not stand.

This is why these threads will keep appearing.

A vocal minority in the trans community M-F are hell bent on eroding the rights of women. I will not use the term cis, it's offensive. We older feminists can remember how it used to be before women had something approaching equal rights. That battle has yet to be won but now we have born men encroaching on our hard fought for rights.

They are demanding the right to live in women's refuges, attend after rape therapy group sessions, represent women on committees. They are closing down discussion on the menopause, FGM etc, etc because that is non-inclusive.

It is not transphobic to discuss the menopause, even if that does exclude born men. Fuck off.

The

AllMyBestFriendsAreMetalheads · 04/08/2016 07:27

I'm fairly bored of wedding threads, which are generally all repetitions of previous ones. Grabby poems, child free or not, pushy bride/bridesmaids/parents/auntie mabel. And there actually is a wedding topic I think.

Luckily I don't read them if I don't want to. Which helps somewhat.

I really enjoy the mixture of lighthearted stuff and serious stuff on MN. I've learnt so much from MN posters on all sorts of topics.

BeyondBeyondBeyondBeyondBeyond · 04/08/2016 08:12

Need, I'm a friend of posies - I've seen the email. It certainly appears to be based on one post, but I do imagine it's context of her being a prominent feminist poster who has probably said something "wrong" before.

BeyondBeyondBeyondBeyondBeyond · 04/08/2016 08:14

While we're sending threads off to their own topics, can I suggest a whole topic for "am I pregnant, I feel a bit sick/is this a line"?

HermioneWeasley · 04/08/2016 09:01

No way - Posie has been banned for saying "they"?

Can HQ clarify?

MephistoMarley · 04/08/2016 09:03

She's been banned for saying that in future she wouldn't agree to use 3rd person pronouns if asked to. She didn't misgender anyone, but she stated her intention to misgender in future I guess. So that's that.
I suspect she was a thorn in MNHQ's side and this was a hook to hang the ban on

OP posts:

HermioneWeasley · 04/08/2016 09:13

Ah, I had similar when I misgendered someone, but HQ agreed used of "they" was acceptable because I said I couldn't deal with th lying involved in saying "she" or "her penis" in the context of someone committing sexual assault.

UnexpectedBaggage · 04/08/2016 09:13

They is a plural pronoun. How can that be used to apply to a single person?

HermioneWeasley · 04/08/2016 09:23

They is now an accepted gender neutral pronoun for individuals dontcha know

Along with "ze"

UnderTheGreenwoodTree · 04/08/2016 09:23

This is not cool, HQ. You have always allowed discussion of these issues in the past - and very few of the posts deleted on that thread would have been considered a breach of guidelines in the past.

The debate is lost, then. If women on MN cannot have the freedom to discuss this topic, because HQ call such discussion "transphobic" - then we've lost.

Down the rabbit hole we go.

BeyondBeyondBeyondBeyondBeyond · 04/08/2016 09:34

It gets difficult to write, but I go with:
"Hermione weasley was out for a walk when Hermione Weasley saw a cat. The cat ran away from Hermione Weasly and Hermione Weasley chased it, but Hermione Weasley was not fast enough to catch it and it got away from Hermione Weasley."

LunaLoveg00d · 04/08/2016 09:40

Completely agree - I had a whole thread about a semi-well known blogger deleted for being transphobic and mean as it was pointed out that nobody really gives two hoots how you "identify" and that you need a penis to be a man.

The whole trans debate is so BORING now.

MephistoMarley · 04/08/2016 09:40

I use 'they' when referring to trans people. (Not in real life, then I use chosen pronouns, cos I'm not deliberately rude) but I find they to be the most neutral. Calling a male sex offender 'she' is beyond me and I don't want to be deleted or banned for saying he.
I will never stop saying that male trans people are male and will always be male, or that having a brain sexed opposite to your body sex is physically and psychologically impossible. It will be a sad day when those statements are enough to get banned. As we see they are already getting deleted as 'transphobic'

OP posts:

UnexpectedBaggage · 04/08/2016 09:54

The whole trans debate is so BORING now.

Why bother opening it then?

purplevase4 · 04/08/2016 09:58

I use "they" as a singular pronoun on a regular basis because always using "he" or "she" to mean both or writing "he or she" or "s/he" is tedious (and in the case of only using he or she is mean both, is wrong).

I am a grammar pedant, but I don't see the issue with using "they" in his content, and it can of course include transpeople too.

purplevase4 · 04/08/2016 09:58

context not content

BastardDailyMail · 04/08/2016 11:04

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

travellingbird · 04/08/2016 11:06

MN needs to take a long walk off a short pier sometimes.

ExitPursuedByABear · 04/08/2016 11:20

Sooooo, if I don't agree to use third person pronouns will I too be banned?

Will this be a question asked of everyone when they sign up for MN?

ElsaAintAsColdAsMe · 04/08/2016 11:28

I would imagine that if someone continually referred to women as cis women and stated they had no intention of stopping it then they would also be banned.

SirVixofVixHall · 04/08/2016 12:02

Really? I think that's unlikely. I have seen Cis used a lot in posts.

MrsHathaway · 04/08/2016 12:06

God help anyone learning English as a foreign language ...

Many languages don't distinguish between his/her, preferring instead to mark the gender of the possessed thing.

Additionally, it occurs to me that in German the words for 'his' and 'its' are the same, and the words for 'her' and 'their' are the same. I don't think the entire nation has fallen over yet.

I didn't think I cared about the trans debate. I was cool and right on and "live and let live" because it's easy to be completely tolerant when something has exactly no impact on you whatsoever.

But what I'm recognising from the trans debates in AIBU (etc) is that there is an impact on me and on all women if we redefine what a woman is. I had no idea that the criteria for asserting womanhood had become so loose. I thought you had to have GRS and lengthy hormone treatment.

I didn't realise how much of what I thought was real about gender is totally socially enforced - though I should have, given my interest in human universals and gender definitions being conspicuous by their absence in such lists.

I didn't realise how much it is in men's interests (NAMALT) to reinforce gender inequality. I didn't realise how much it matters to that model to have only two categories of human: Man and Not-Man. I simply hadn't considered why female-only spaces are needed as a shelter from gender inequality.

I believed the statistics about victims of violence at face value: I didn't read the small print that showed that although there's some parity in levels of violence perpetuated against men and women, there's a stark difference in levels of violence perpetuated by men and women. Blinding ourselves to the sources of hateful behaviour in the name of equality is a farce.

Until MNers pointed it out, I had no idea of the possibilities for male club athletes to mimic female biochemistry for a while and bring home medals and world records. There's a lot of talk in the news about doping, but approximately nothing about the specific manipulation of sex hormones for athletic advantage.

And I know that the trans debate doesn't feel as immediate as the FGM debate or the equal pay debate or rape culture - or #BlackLivesMatter or refugees or Zika. But it's creeping up on us and we may lose everything we've gained if we don't debate sensibly before it's too late.

BeyondBeyondBeyondBeyondBeyond · 04/08/2016 12:23

Bannings and super fast deletions for anything even vaguely suggesting that the emperor has no clothes, yet disabilist slurs like 'moronic' stand for hours. Mn knows where the money lies...

BeyondBeyondBeyondBeyondBeyond · 04/08/2016 12:33

Oh even better, there is now a response that moronic is not disabilist.

For fucks sake, I am seriously close to having enough

MrsHathaway · 04/08/2016 13:12

Beyond - could you link (by pm if you prefer)? Would be glad to reinforce reporting such a remark.

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