MNHQ - are they disabilist?

[Sixweekstowait]

Having had a thread deleted with no communication with me until I asked ( but then I'm disabled and so invisible) , having read on the second class citizen thread of examples of disabilist language which HQ defend, I am beginning to think they are. I now think they were really really wrong to delete my thread and that they have NO IDEA about the everyday discrimination that people with disabilities face in even trying to travel to work, care even less and I would like to know how many of their staff are disabled?

@Bourdic

Olivia - you could have commented on the thread and and reminded people of the guidelines and asked them to play nicely, you could have emailed me that you were going to delete the thread

That is probably what should have happened. Unusual that there wasn't an "oi, behave" post on the thread or that more individual posts weren't deleted.

However, please don't be offended that we didn't contact you - it is VERY rare that we would email an OP to tell them we are going to delete their thread (I think I can remember doing so maybe half a dozen times in my time here) and as in this case we sometimes give advanced warning (of a few mins,) that a thread will be deleted.

We are sorry that a really shitty experience at the station was worsened by a shitty experience here when this was meant to be the place that you can vent (you mentioned that you don't in RL)

We do try really hard to get on the right side of this - whether it's linguistic debate or not - and we'll have another think about it

Any chance of a report back when you've had a think about it?

I think MNHQ used to be really proactive with disablist stuff but it's gone downhill a bit. I still remember the time not long back that I reported someone using a mental illness as an alternative description of being quirky (which really doesn't help certain stereotypes) and was told that the poster probably didn't mean to use it in a negative way so they'd be leaving it up. Prior to that, when I reported something similar a couple of times, they were on it straight away, editing titles and explaining why it was disablist etc. That was before penis beaker and money money money though.

That is probably what should have happened. Unusual that there wasn't an "oi, behave" post on the thread or that more individual posts weren't deleted.

And there was call for this on other thread too IMO

@Bourdic

Any chance of a report back when you've had a think about it?

Sure - can't guarantee it'll be this week as not sure of who's where on the 9 to 5 side but we will be in touch.
Please feel free to PM me to remind me if you've not heard back.

As other people have used the phrase now, I'll try and explain the context- apologies if you've read this on other threads. From what I can remember, on my deleted thread I had a rant about the appalling behaviour of the abusers of bb spaces. I recounted an exchange where one particular obnoxious person said that he might have a hidden disability , I retorted that he clearly couldn't read ( ie the bb notice) but that if he did have a hidden disability, I'd like to see his hidden blue badge.i thought and still think that was very funny and quick witted of me especially as I was so fed up. It was not a pop at hidden disabilities but at people using bb spaces without a bb. I then railed about the fact that no one ever supports me when I try to get these people to move ( yes I know it's becsuse I'm angry and not simpering smiling ). I called these people walkie talkies which was a phrase coined in the 80s at the start of the disability rights movement and was a tongue in cheek shot across the bows remark to counter and highlight the dreadful phrases and words that were being used then ( and some still are) to label people with disabilities. From what I recall some of the worst posts were from people who had not read my OP properly but were clearly disabilist and wanted to have a go at me dressing it up in faux outrage

I only saw the start of it MrsDeVere but I think that's true.

Some posters on AIBU just sit there looking for a way in to become massively angry at OP I think too .

MNHQ shouldn't delete whole threads because people who can't be bothered to read an OP properly report it- that's absolutely pathetic. I wonder how many of the people who reported really give a shit about disability , hidden or otherwise? One person called the phrase vile and disgusting - wtf? What is really being said is that threads on disability have to follow different standards and are treated differently from others - part of the whole disabilist rubbish we have to put up with on a daily basis and woe betide us for getting angry

its odd isnt it. when someone is pulled up for using the s or r word..we then get loads of posts excusing it. when there is never an excuse.
walkie talkies!! people walk and talk.....hardly offensive

A quick question. I wonder if MNHQ have a series of 'steering groups' or similar to help them navigate this and other topics? It feels like they need handling advice for this and future situations, and that should be from people for whom this is their lived experience.

It would be wrong to think that they can "figure this out" in isolation.

I would be looking to bring together posters in a closed forum/ irl to seek advice and input.

I think it was fine for people to disagree with the phrase you used, surely that's what a discussion forum is about? I didn't see how the thread went but I can well imagine that some posters went well beyond "I don't think that phrase is appropriate because..." into personal attacks and hyperbole. It's a shame there wasn't a comment drom MNHQ before it got that far, but I know things often get busy on their end so I'm sure there was a reason for the delay.

I'd always challenge someone if they used of disablist language. I really didn't like the use of "walkie talkie", especially since it was being used in the middle of a post about how every single non-disabled person was essentially disablist. I don't think it was automatically wrong to object to being described like that, especially since many posters went on to agree that you'd been treated awfully in the incidents that you talked about in your post.

Bourdic bloody well done for starting this thread and bringing peoples and Mumsnets attention to this!

I'd read the other thread and I replied on there,I read it to my DH and he was disgusted but sadly not surprised at what happened to you and the fact that no one thought to back you up at the station and he just like me couldn't believe the way you were treated on here!

I'm disabled,I wasn't born disabled,we have 5DC and 2 of our DC our disabled,neither my DH or our 3DC that aren't disabled found the term walkie talkie offensive,my DH laughed when he heard it.

I think alot of the posters on this thread are getting it now,not everyone(if anyone)who is disabled will be bright and light and smiling constantly whilst putting up with everyday crap being thrown at us because we dare to be disabled.
People as a whole wouldn't expect anyone that was attacked because of the colour of they're skin,they're religion,they're sexuality,they're sex ect to smile like a sodding Disney character every time someone treated them like an equal human being because why should they,that's normal,that's how everyone should treat one another all the time!

Were not asking for anything anyone who isn't disabled,who isn't living in constant pain,who hasn't been given a shorter life span isn't asking for.We want to be treated with respect,we want to be treated like human beings,we want to be treated like were supposed to be here.
Sadly that's something that's lots of us will never experience!
Lots of us will die never having been treated like an equal!

I find it hard to believe that there is any meaningful disability awareness at HQ. By implication, Oliva has demonstrated that my thread was treated differently to the norm - no warnings, no deletions of individual posts and then when she did come on, twice she dealt with it in a way that I felt as very flippant. Someone at HQ made the decision to delete that thread and they should be ashamed of themselves. How on earth could anyone who knows anything about disability believe that the phrase is vile, disgusting, horrendous etc etc ? Well I'm all mumsnetted out now so will take a break - thanks to those of you who have been so understanding and as for the rest of you it would be nice if you just thought s bit - and those who reported the thread, words fail me.

walkie talkies which was a phrase coined in the 80s

And that is where it should have stayed. It is rude and unnecessary.

And no, I am not fucking disablist for thinking this.

Before I go, thanks ohthe

By implication, Oliva has demonstrated that my thread was treated differently to the norm

I think you have misinterpreted this. This kind of thing happens with lots of threads and MNHQ then apologise for being heavy handed or whatever. It's not "different from the norm" and not singled out, it just could have beenhandled better. As is the case with many threads about many subjects.

Your thread went nuts as most parking threads go I don't think MN is disabilist though I do think some posters have no clue what it's like living day to day with a disability and expect the disabled to suck it up and stop moaning that attitude is probably why your thread was deleted

What Mrs Devere just said

I've never heard this phrase walkietalkie before. What does it mean/who does it refer to? (sorry if I've missed it somewhere).

I can't believe people are calling the term vile and horrendous.

Walking and talking are hardly pejorative. People are lucky if they can do them.

Far better term than the opposite insults.

@Bourdic

I find it hard to believe that there is any meaningful disability awareness at HQ. By implication, Oliva has demonstrated that my thread was treated differently to the norm - no warnings, no deletions of individual posts and then when she did come on, twice she dealt with it in a way that I felt as very flippant. Someone at HQ made the decision to delete that thread and they should be ashamed of themselves. How on earth could anyone who knows anything about disability believe that the phrase is vile, disgusting, horrendous etc etc ? Well I'm all mumsnetted out now so will take a break - thanks to those of you who have been so understanding and as for the rest of you it would be nice if you just thought s bit - and those who reported the thread, words fail me.

Hi Bourdic,

We are sorry to hear this, we never like anyone to be upset and we could have managed the thread better, apologies for that.

MNHQ are a fairly diverse bunch of people, each of us with our own experiences but I would politely push back on the idea that there is no meaningful disability awareness at MNHQ. On the community team alone, we have a member of staff who is deaf, and member of staff who has a son with DS. We do try to be as compassionate and understanding as we can be to all.

As always, we do read and appreciate your feedback and we will have a discussion about the issues that this has raised and how we could have better managed the situation.

Apologies again for any upset caused.

It almost doesn't matter whether people view the phrase 'walkie talkie' as a problem or not.

The point for me is that her choice of phrase was just used as a stick to beat her with. (That's obviously as far as I read and the fact that it was deleted suggests it didn't get any better)

Posters fell over themselves to ignore the upset the op was feeling and to patronise, dismiss and talk down to the op because she had the audacity to be angry.
The sniffy suggestions that she was being blocked in by van drivers and taxis most mornings because they all had invisible disabilities were all part of the same attitude.

I'm going to ponder if being called a walkie talkie is going to dent my immense power in the world as an able bodied, educated white woman. I don't think it's going to take me too long.
If I'm feeling my immense privilege is damaged then I'll contemplate whether my correct response is to berate a woman who is angry at her daily efforts to get to work being made unbearable. Because, you know, that's the same.