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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

OFFICIAL MNHQ THREAD on posts about suicide, troll-hunting and related matters

833 replies

RowanMumsnet · 23/10/2014 10:10

Hello

There have been so many threads about this over the past few days, and so many divergent points of view - and so much upset - that we'd really like to have the discussion in one place rather than in many different threads all over the boards.

For those who haven't heard yet: we are actively reviewing our policy about threads regarding suicidal feelings and suicidal intent. We are seeking expert input from outside organisations including the Samaritans. Once we have that we will come back and have a further discussion with MNers about the way forward.

We'll be here to talk on the thread throughout the day, but do please note that we WILL delete troll-hunting posts for all the obvious reasons. So PLEASE do not use this thread to make insinuations about identifiable posters - keep it general please.

Re: Wombat: we understand that some reporters had concerns, but at the same time this poster had been around for years with a very consistent posting history. We absolutely do not have any concrete reason to disbelieve her. However, her thread had been immensely upsetting and triggering for many users, and has prompted a site-wide discussion about how we handle these threads. Once her husband had posted that she was at home with him and under the care of RL professionals it really seemed best all round to delete the thread.

We contacted Wombat at the time to explain our deletion and we still feel that for many very good reasons this is best sorted out off-board between us and her; we've asked her again to reply to our email and we will happily take it from there.

We also think that this whole case is a very good illustration of why we have no-trollhunting rules. We understand that some of you find them frustrating, but for every correct troll-call, there's an incorrect one. Being called a troll in public when you're giving an honest account of deeply upsetting real-life circumstances can be devastating for people.

Equally, we do 'get' that there are a lot posters and threads at the moment that seem deeply suspicious. We are on the front foot with this and have been being pretty pro-active at closing things down when they are reported to us and when we can see that things aren't adding up, particularly if they are new users.

So we need you to keep reporting and NOT break troll-hunting rules on the boards unless MNHQ itself has said publicly that we are confident that someone was a deliberate trouble-maker.

The namechange/sock-puppeting thing is extremely easy for us to spot when it's reported. It's not a judgement call - it's black and white and it's the work of a moment for us to spot it and deal with it.

OP posts:
Maryz · 23/10/2014 17:54

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

RowanMumsnet · 23/10/2014 17:54

@WorraLiberty

Yesterday a poster name changed just to start a TAAT...and a pretty nasty one at that, taking the pee out of another poster's thread.

All the deletion message said was it was a TAAT, but what I'd like to know is, was the person banned for abusing the name change function and taking the pee out of the original poster?

If you can take a firmer stand on the cowardly name changers who simply want to cause trouble, it might cut down on the trolling.

OK we think we've found this one now Worra and yes he was immediately banned.

OP posts:
TeaAndALemonTart · 23/10/2014 17:54

Jesus who? Not InTheCabbageVan? I liked her.

Wink
Modestine · 23/10/2014 17:54

OMG Jesus was a troll! Really?

SnowyMouse · 23/10/2014 17:55

Someone asked what the Samaritans would do.

"we respect your freedom to make your own decisions, including the decision to take your own life. We’ll continue to talk with you if you’ve taken action to end your life.
Will you tell anybody I’m suicidal?

We won’t ever tell anyone about our conversation, or even that you called, unless you ask us to. We won't call emergency services, except for in these circumstances:

You ask us to, and you’re unable to call for yourself
You’ve already told us your address, location or phone number, and then become incoherent or unconscious during the call
You’re in one of our branches, and you’ve harmed yourself in a way that puts you in danger at that time."

from here

EatDereksCorpse · 23/10/2014 17:56

If you have attempted suicide then a forum can't help you. You need RL help! It's nothing to do with MH shaming and all to do with common sense.

When my mum attempted it the last thing she needed was some people on Mn posting flowers and PM's. She needed the Mental Health team and needed sectioning.

Maryz · 23/10/2014 17:56

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

FrontForward · 23/10/2014 17:56

Derek that is obviously an extreme example and yes horrific.

However the vast majority are irritating and to me inexplicable as I don't really understand the motivation to troll.

RowanMumsnet · 23/10/2014 17:56

@MrsLettuce

We've had the discussion several times MrsLettuce and as far as we know we've implemented the policies we came up with at the time.

One of the problems is there is absolutely no consensus, among posters, about how these threads should be dealt with. Many MNers feel VERY strongly that genuine users who feel suicidal should be able to use MN as a source of support and help. Others feel VERY strongly that they should not.

I know Rowan, but, TBH I've seen enough rounds of this exact same 'policy crisis' in the 7 or 8 years I've been here to start to think that, maybe, just, maybe, MNHQ don't actually want or intend to make any sort of clear policy decision WRT suicide threads but just want all sides of the argument to feel heard.

Whatever is decided people will be upset, there is very rarely consensus and always a fuck load of whingeing over anything MNHQ do. But, MNHQ are the parents here, as it were, and are surely aware that not making a decision is also a decision.

I think it's time HQ 'personed up', made a decision and owned that decision, even if that is a wooly 'we'll just carry on as we always have done thankyouverymuch'.

We get you MrsL and we will do our utmost to person up. We are waiting until we have all the relevant input from all the relevant places though.

OP posts:
Modestine · 23/10/2014 17:57

Can someone PM me about Jesus?

QuintessentiallyGhoulish · 23/10/2014 17:58

Not sure if this has been suggested as thread became so extremely long....

But is it not possible to move suicide threats to a private sphere only accessible by the Samaritans?

It is a bit silly that they should only operate on the phone, in a time where most people use forums.

Equally, DV threads; OP can be given a safe sphere to chat to WA, etc.

Maybe if the forum became a bit MORE, trolling would be less. A troll want attention, they dont want to talk to the Samaritans, like somebody actually wanting to end it, might want to.

EatDereksCorpse · 23/10/2014 17:58

front in my opinion trolls are usually attention seekers. As the troll who pretended to be me turned out to me. Like an emotional vampire, wanted people to feel sorry for them and share their stories.

Some trolls do it so they have wank fodder.

RowanMumsnet · 23/10/2014 17:58

@TheOrchardKeeper

It's all getting a little MH-shaming. People post about other very distressing things (stillbirths, misscarriages, cancer etc) and no one would ask them not to or ridicule them for posting on MN instead of having rl support etc. But that's what I've read a lot of, MNHQ.

The suicide threats are different but people keep mentioning how MN isn't a MH support network. No, it isn't. But there are threads and posters who do support each other and there is NOTHING wrong with that. No different to the general health board.

It's been very upsetting to hear how many people think it's wrong for people to use MN as a source of support. Some of us haven't got many other options. And, as the last few days on here have shown, misunderstanding, prejudice and ridicule towards MH is still rife...

Thanks for this and we will do our best to try to come to a balanced decision. We know lots of users feel very strongly about this.

OP posts:
QuintessentiallyGhoulish · 23/10/2014 17:58

Can somebody please post Modestine a Bible?

Wink
MrsVamoOOOOOOOOOOs · 23/10/2014 18:01

First there was Mary, and Joseph...

TeaAndALemonTart · 23/10/2014 18:02

Jesus wanted wank fodder?

Modestine · 23/10/2014 18:02

Quint, if someone posts The Bible on here, the thread will be very long indeed. Mind you, it would make salutary reading for MNHQ when they sit down and read the print-outs. I can see it now.

EatDereksCorpse · 23/10/2014 18:02

No idea but if that's what he was into, who are we to judge

Maryz · 23/10/2014 18:03

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MrsVamoOOOOOOOOOOs · 23/10/2014 18:03

Quint

I suggested a separate part of MN, away from MH.

Not sure that all agencies could be included, but a good idea.

Also think for other mnetters it shouldn't appear in active, if such a place could be organised.

ElliotLovesGrub · 23/10/2014 18:05

I reckon the distinction that maryz has said about is important. People who generally feel down and depressed can get good support here. People who are posting threads about it being time to say goodbye need professionals.

ChestyCoffin · 23/10/2014 18:05

My Opinion for what it's worth...

calling troll on a thread is unproductive and what if the person is genuine? If they aren't, then all I've lost is a little time replying. It doesn't impact my life as after all we are all words on a screen.

If your convinced it's a troll don't post, move on. Half the time troll threads get so long due to the race to call troll and disprove them.

I can see why people find the suicide threads upsetting but
I find it upsetting to think someone feels that way, wants to reach out/ share and can't or is shuffled off to a corner of the site where no one will see their posts.
If it's not true I've lost nothing but there's the chance I was there for someone in distress.

MrsVamoOOOOOOOOOOs · 23/10/2014 18:06

And I'm suggesting away from MH and not in active, to help/protect all vunerable posters.

Not because I think MH is shaming in any way at all.

Just wanted to clarify.

Maryz · 23/10/2014 18:09

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheOrchardKeeper · 23/10/2014 18:09

Not having a dig at MNHQ at all Smile

It's a tough one to call! The threads detailing method/means are potentially harmfull to others. No doubt about it. I find them triggering myself (but avoid them pretty easily if/when they crop up).

Hope you can come to a decent decision.

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